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  #41  
Old 08-28-2004, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReinaMissy
So Samitude is to be taken to task for assuming things about a woman she's never met, but Isabel knows all about the same woman (whom she has never met, either)?

That's laughable. It's absurd to claim you can tell all about a person just from body language.
No, what is laughable is your arrogance and obstinance-truly the lowest form of humor and intelligence

I can tell a lot from body language, most people with common sense can. It is very easy to tell when someone is hiding something, aggravated, uncomfortable, or just doesn't want to be bothered. Certainly you cannot tell everything about a person from their body language, but with the right combination of resources, it easy to understand where most individuals are coming from.

BTW, I can say whatever I like to Samitude. It seems to me that what neither of you ReinaMissy or Samitude can understand is that things tend to go both ways. Samitude can base her remarks and great like for MC on the same resources that I have which I named above, but I cannot base anything on them? I and others shouldn't say anything, especially something that could be viewed as negative about MC because we don't know her? (If any of us knew any of the Royals personally, we probably wouldn't have to visit this board very often, now would we?)

What kind of garbage is that and who in the world do you and Samitude think you are? We're not living in your world and you cannot control our thoughts or opinions. You all say whatever you like and no one attacks you, but when anyone says anything about your precious MC, Oh my goodness! Sound the alarm. You people need to grow up and learn to respect the opinions of others and learn to agree to disagree.
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  #42  
Old 08-28-2004, 07:16 PM
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Oh, but your opinion is absolute fact because it's yours? That's not just laughable, it's arrogant and stupid.

If you can't accept criticism, dear, then don't dish it out.
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  #43  
Old 08-28-2004, 07:45 PM
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If people are not going to be civil and respectful towards each other despite the varying opinons then this thread is going to be closed. Consider this the first and only warning on this matter.

Some of the scathing and attacking remarks made in this thread of late are not tolerated here. You can disagree with each all you want, there is no rule that says everyone has to agree with each other or like all the royals presented here, but there is most certainly a rule that demands that everyone be civil and respectful of each other. What I have read the past few pages is neither of these things.

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  #44  
Old 08-28-2004, 11:42 PM
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I'm perfectly happy to be respectful of others, Alexandria. For the record, I don't like being so witchy in my posts.

However, I will not tolerate being attacked with such churlishness by others.
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  #45  
Old 08-30-2004, 02:55 AM
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I've always wondered what is wrong with Marie-Chantal's eye. Is she cross-eyed?

It kind of creeps me out.
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  #46  
Old 08-30-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
If people are not going to be civil and respectful towards each other despite the varying opinons then this thread is going to be closed. Consider this the first and only warning on this matter.

Some of the scathing and attacking remarks made in this thread of late are not tolerated here. You can disagree with each all you want, there is no rule that says everyone has to agree with each other or like all the royals presented here, but there is most certainly a rule that demands that everyone be civil and respectful of each other. What I have read the past few pages is neither of these things.

Alexandria
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I certainly don't mind being respectful. However, I don't appreciate being told that my opinion is wrong or even laughable. I don't like reading the same about the opinions of others either. When I disgree with a member, I state the facts and state my opposing points. I don't start calling them names simply because I disagree or without any provocation.

I will give respect to those who give it to me.
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  #47  
Old 08-30-2004, 10:37 AM
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Let's get back to the topic of this thread, which is Marie-Chantal and her relationship with her in-laws. If anyone has further issues with giving respect or the lack of respect being given in this thread to them by other members take it up with me personally. Let's not waste other people's time with this unrelated discussion in this thread.

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  #48  
Old 08-30-2004, 02:48 PM
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I think that Marie-Chantals relations with her in-laws must be pretty good, considering the latter.... I don't know how close she is however with her three younger in -laws, Nikolaos, Theodora, and Philippos.
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  #49  
Old 08-31-2004, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
That's laughable. It's absurd to claim you can tell all about a person just from body language..
It's even more absurd and laughable to claim a woman has any worth just because she's "birthed four healthy kids".
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  #50  
Old 08-31-2004, 06:03 PM
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what I'd like to know about is this talk of a "dowry" that MC supposedly brought into the marriage. I've never heard of such a thing in this century - is this still a practice in royal marriages? What if the bride is not rich, eg. Mary in Denmark or Letizia in Spain - what would they bring money-wise into the marriage? Why would MC be expected to bring $ to the Greek Royal fam just because she happens to come from a rich family?

MC is very wealthy, her father is worth almost a $billion and she and her two sisters are heirs to it. She most likely has a huge trust fund that she and Pavlos live off of, at least partially. But I can't picture Constantine and AM accepting $ from their in laws, or making a dowry or payment conditional to allowing Pavlos to marry MC (which is what a dowry essentially is). I just don't see it. I don't think that Bob Miller is the type to support his daughter's in-laws either - jmo. In fact, if the Millers were smart, they would have had a tight pre-nup drawn up before the wedding to protect MC's fortune, which is much larger than anything Pavlos will ever inherit.

This is a bit off from the original topic of whether or not MC and her inlaws get along. My feeling is yes - Pavlos loves her so they probably at least like her, and Constantine and AM love their grandchildren. They always look happy together as a family in photos. I think they at least are fond of MC, even if she wasn't what they exactly envisioned as a wife for their eldest son.
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  #51  
Old 08-31-2004, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandalover
what I'd like to know about is this talk of a "dowry" that MC supposedly brought into the marriage. I've never heard of such a thing in this century - is this still a practice in royal marriages? What if the bride is not rich, eg. Mary in Denmark or Letizia in Spain - what would they bring money-wise into the marriage? Why would MC be expected to bring $ to the Greek Royal fam just because she happens to come from a rich family?
I think the answer to your question is in your last sentence (I didn't quote) regarding the fact that she isn't quite the kind of daughter-in-law they might have envisioned. Exactly so! Do you think if they were still reigning that this woman would be married to their son? I for one definitely do not. Contrary to what you might think, I believe the so-called "dowry" is just a nice way of saying "pay-off" for the Greek Royal Family accepting her, the "dowry" was very much part of the deal. King Constantine's finances and investments had not gone well in the years he moved to London, and probably by the time M-C appeared on the scene all the Greek shipbuilder families were somewhat tired after 20 years of supporting him and his family in lavish royal style. Something had to be done, and M-C was the solution. The fact that they make this marriage work on the exterior so far is nothing new, many royals have done likewise. I think also the fact that her two sisters' marriages, that IMHO were also engineered by Robert Miller and wife, have now failed, just underlines what really mattered in the M-C/Pavlos arrangement. This one cannot be allowed to fail because the Greek Royal Family have now staked their reputation for money on a woman that would never have been considered under happier circumstances as a reigning family.
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  #52  
Old 08-31-2004, 07:11 PM
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I've read things about a dowry being given to the King and Queen, too. Whether the marriage between Pavlos and Marie-Chantal really works or not, I don't know. Maybe they truly do love each other, maybe they truly do not. But they each definitely got what they wanted out of the marriage: money for Pavlos's family and a title for Marie Chantal.

For all the billions Robert Miller is worth, the one thing he could never buy was a title such as that of Crown Princess for his daughters. Even as the Crown Princess of a desposed country, there is a certain amount of cache that automatically garners some respect and awe when you announce that your husband is the Crown Prince of Greece and that you are the Crown Princess.

I don't know exactly what Constantine's financial state was around 1995 when Pavlos and Marie-Chantal married, but I have read many stories to the effect that whatever amount of money was coming in through Constantine's investments and through whatever financial support relatives and friends (like Queen Elizabeth) and Greek ex-pats were extending to the family, were not enough to sustain the family's lavish lifestyle. Some money, a million dollars or not, would've definitely bolstered the Greek family's assets.
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  #53  
Old 09-02-2004, 10:28 AM
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I've read about the dowry also. For a time it was all that anyone could talk about concerning couple. The ongoing rumour has been that the dowry was in the amount of $250 million and is kept in a trust. It seems like a very large amount to me. I wouldn't think that it would be that much, so for me the actual figure is questionable but I do believe that it must be a fairly large amount whatever it may be. However, I disagree with those on the other boards who have said that there was never any dowry. I believe that the reports were right and that there definitely was one.

Constantine's financial state wasn't very good in 1995 from what I can tell. The Greeks have always been considered to be among the least wealthy royals. By regular standards they aren't poor, but I guess that by royal standards when considering some of the vast wealth of other families around the world, they are.

At the time of the engagement of Pavlos and MC Constantine was really dependent upon the regular donations of several prominent Greek families in London and as Genevieve mentioned the generosity of his extended family. Several of the articles that I read at the time stated that the RF received somewhere near one million dollars a year in donations. Of course, you can't believe everything that you read. But, what I found to be most interesting is that several of the articles stated the same figure or very close to that. Clearly, journalists do borrow from each other, so I can't be sure. But, if Constantine received such large amounts and did so for the majority of his time in exile and still couldn't make ends meet and invest more wisely, then I would have to conlude that the dowry must have been part of the marriage. I would think that MC's family assets would have appealed to him, naturally.
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  #54  
Old 09-02-2004, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel
I've read about the dowry also. For a time it was all that anyone could talk about concerning couple. The ongoing rumour has been that the dowry was in the amount of $250 million and is kept in a trust. It seems like a very large amount to me. I wouldn't think that it would be that much, so for me the actual figure is questionable but I do believe that it must be a fairly large amount whatever it may be. However, I disagree with those on the other boards who have said that there was never any dowry. I believe that the reports were right and that there definitely was one.

Constantine's financial state wasn't very good in 1995 from what I can tell. The Greeks have always been considered to be among the least wealthy royals. By regular standards they aren't poor, but I guess that by royal standards when considering some of the vast wealth of other families around the world, they are.

At the time of the engagement of Pavlos and MC Constantine was really dependent upon the regular donations of several prominent Greek families in London and as Genevieve mentioned the generosity of his extended family. Several of the articles that I read at the time stated that the RF received somewhere near one million dollars a year in donations. Of course, you can't believe everything that you read. But, what I found to be most interesting is that several of the articles stated the same figure or very close to that. Clearly, journalists do borrow from each other, so I can't be sure. But, if Constantine received such large amounts and did so for the majority of his time in exile and still couldn't make ends meet and invest more wisely, then I would have to conlude that the dowry must have been part of the marriage. I would think that MC's family assets would have appealed to him, naturally.
I don't know about the $250 million but the $1 million a year sounds familiar. I have also heard that there is some stipulation that Robert Miller must also maintain financially the Gstaad holiday home of the Greek royals. It is a pretty large and relatively luxurious looking chalet from the pictures I've seen, and in such a ritzy and tony place I'm sure it is not cheap to maintain.

I think that it wasn't only in 1995 that Constantine and the family were suffering financially. Ever since they left Greece and moved to Denmark temporarily then to London permanently they have relied heavily and predominantly on financial aid from family members and friends. Queen Ingrid gave her daughter a decent sum of money and Queen Margrethe and Queen Sofia offered some financial support, though the amount they offered was quite limited and for a very brief amount of time. But Queen Elizabeth supported King Constantine through her personal finances for many decades and I think it was only until the late eighties/early nineties that she started to either cut back or limit how much financial support she gave the family because her financial (and public) advisors told her how bad this looked on her. (It created some tension and conflict of interest between the Queen as a public figure and working with/meeting Greek politicians who were strongly opposed to King Constantine versus the Queen helping out a friend in need.)

And of course there were all the wealthy Greek families in London and those who remained in Greece who extended financial support to Constantine and the family. It was through some of these families that the King was able to start the Greek school in London that Theodora and Phillippos attended.

I think at the time of Pavlos and Marie-Chantals' marriage, whether the family's finances were just as dismal as always or getting worse, I think that both Constantine and Robert Miller saw it as a good business arrangement/transaction. Robert got to buy the title and "automatic" class and boost in society his family had always longed for and Constantine got some stability to his financial situation.

I agree that I don't doubt for a minute that there was some financial transaction between the Millers and the Greek royals through Pavlos and Marie-Chantal's marriage. I wouldn't necessarily label it as a dowry as that connotes some patriachal, archaic 18th century tradition, but definitely money was exchanged hands when the wedding bands were exchanged!
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2004, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel
I've read about the dowry also. For a time it was all that anyone could talk about concerning couple. The ongoing rumour has been that the dowry was in the amount of $250 million and is kept in a trust. It seems like a very large amount to me. I wouldn't think that it would be that much, so for me the actual figure is questionable but I do believe that it must be a fairly large amount whatever it may be. However, I disagree with those on the other boards who have said that there was never any dowry. I believe that the reports were right and that there definitely was one.
$250 million is a lot of money even for Robert Miller - that's nearly a third of his fortune! One million a year sounds much more reasonable, and even then I think it would be more like a trust fund payout to MC for her own family maintenance more than a dowry. I believe that back in '95 most of Robert Miller's money was still tied up in his duty-free business on paper (stock), someone else here who reads the finance pages can correct me if wrong but I don't think he cashed out until recently, it was definitely after the wedding in '95 - so in no way would he have had the liquid cash or ability to transfer that large an amount of equity to anyone at that time. I still don't think he's giving $ to Pavlos's family just to keep MC married and happy, he's too self made to put up with that.

Re. QEII and her support of the Greeks - I don't think that was the case, as has been pointed out here she doesn't even support her own poorer relations (cousins, etc.) and has had to cut the civil list. I don't think she gave anything to C & AM. I believe that AM may have received an inheritance when her father died, didn't they buy their house in London right after '72 - Frederik's death? That would make sense. And there was some inheritance for C. when Frederika passed suddenly too. But other than that they probably had support here and there from other rich Greeks, the Shah or Iran (allegedly), and possibly King Hussein (very rich and very close to C.). How "lavish" have C and AM lived? They vacation mainly with relatives (Gstaad, Spain, etc), live in a nice but by royal standards very modest home (Hampstead Heath), don't wear tremendously flashy clothes. Alexia's wedding, for ex. while nice was nowhere near as flashy as MC's was.

What I'd like to know is who pays Nik's salary, since he works for his father. He lives at a suite in Blakes in Belgravia which can't be cheap - who pays for this?
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2004, 04:11 PM
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The foundation pays his salary, but I don't think he lives solely on the income he has from that.

As far as King Constantine and his residence, my thought is that he bought that property way up in Hampstead not because he wanted to be far from central London but because acquiring a mansion of similar size in areas like Belgravia or Mayfair would have cost him more than his financial "support system" at the time was willing to give him. Since then, along comes the chalet in Switzerland, along with talk of acquiring new properties in Greece or renovating the old ones. None of which would have been possible without MC's entry into the family.
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  #57  
Old 09-05-2004, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandalover
$250 million is a lot of money even for Robert Miller - that's nearly a third of his fortune! One million a year sounds much more reasonable, and even then I think it would be more like a trust fund payout to MC for her own family maintenance more than a dowry. I believe that back in '95 most of Robert Miller's money was still tied up in his duty-free business on paper (stock), someone else here who reads the finance pages can correct me if wrong but I don't think he cashed out until recently, it was definitely after the wedding in '95 - so in no way would he have had the liquid cash or ability to transfer that large an amount of equity to anyone at that time. I still don't think he's giving $ to Pavlos's family just to keep MC married and happy, he's too self made to put up with that.
Robert Miller may indeed be a very financially savvy man and a self-made millionnaire/billionnaire, but he also got there partly because of his social connections. Wealthy friends who invested in his business ventures and wealthy friends who invited him to invest in theirs. Having a daughter who is the Crown Princess of Greece and who hob nobs with some influential and very pedigreed people can only help his business dealings. To say that your in-laws are the King and Queen of Greece who are also related to the King and Queen of Spain and the Queen of Denmark can only open more doors and further international connections for Robert Miller.

And just because he didn't have any cash or liquid assets at the time of Pavlos and Marie-Chantal's engagement or wedding in 1995 is not to say the financial arrangment doesn't exist. It's not as if Constantine and Anne Marie expected $250 million cash to be handed over to them on the day of the marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandalover
Re. QEII and her support of the Greeks - I don't think that was the case, as has been pointed out here she doesn't even support her own poorer relations (cousins, etc.) and has had to cut the civil list. I don't think she gave anything to C & AM. I believe that AM may have received an inheritance when her father died, didn't they buy their house in London right after '72 - Frederik's death? That would make sense. And there was some inheritance for C. when Frederika passed suddenly too. But other than that they probably had support here and there from other rich Greeks, the Shah or Iran (allegedly), and possibly King Hussein (very rich and very close to C.). How "lavish" have C and AM lived? They vacation mainly with relatives (Gstaad, Spain, etc), live in a nice but by royal standards very modest home (Hampstead Heath), don't wear tremendously flashy clothes. Alexia's wedding, for ex. while nice was nowhere near as flashy as MC's was.

What I'd like to know is who pays Nik's salary, since he works for his father. He lives at a suite in Blakes in Belgravia which can't be cheap - who pays for this?
What makes you say that Queen Elizabeth does not or has never given Constantine any money? I have read numerous stories from a variety of sources that corroborate this information, including King Constantine in a Royalty interview that says Queen Elizabeth helped him out for many years financially. He also says that Queen Elizabeth put him into contact with individuals who assisted him financially as well her she herself from personal accounts. Now, Royalty is certainly a gushing royal magazine and not exactly the New York Times or anything, but why bring this up or falsify this quote from the King if it were not the case, even partly so?

The Queen choosing not to support Prince or Princess Michael or the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester is one thing. But a relation of her husband's flees to London after being exhiled from his own country and being overthrown as the monarchy -- surely the Queen would help out, even a one time offer of fiancial aid (although reports are that she helped out with much more than a mere one time sum of money). Also, the Queen has only in recent years refused to help out her poorer cousins; we are talking about the 70s and 80s and even early 90s -- when the Queen was still indeed assisting her poor relations financially such as paying their rent and also supporting King Constantine. If you read one of my earlier posts, I say very clearly that in the last decade or so the Queen has ceased to assit the Greeks financially because of pressure from her financial advisors.

How lavish are the lives of the Greeks? They may not be one of the wealthiest royal families but they are not exactly living off of food stamps either. Queen Anne Marie does a very good job of recyling her clothes, particularly her evening wear, but even one of her gowns wasn't exactly bought off the rack at a department store and likely costs several thousand dollars at minimum. Factor in Ivy-league American educations for Theodora and Phillippos, trips to visit their youngest children at their schools (including a trip earlier in the spring to see one of them in a school play), trips to visit daughter Alexia and her family in Spain, trips this summer to Denmark, Spain and Greece, and you have a pretty expensive lifestyle.

Alexia's wedding may not have looked expensive, but I assure you it was. Flashy doesn't always mean more expensive. When you consider the pre-wedding dinner involved new dresses for Anne Marie and Alexia, and a wedding dress for Alexia and new dresses for Anne Marie and Theodora who was an attendant, the cost of the reception site and dinner and breakfast for each occasion, champagne and wine (and I don't mean Baby Duck as the wine), you could easily spend $50,000 on the meal alone, let alone flowers, car rentals, other decorations for the reception and church.

I think you greatly underestimate how lavishly the Greek's lives are.
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  #58  
Old 09-05-2004, 11:17 PM
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Robert Miller and his business partner started with NOTHING. Mr. Miller was self made(billionaire) long before any royal friends came into the picture. Saying that he has prospered due to MC's marriage is just not right and a total slap in the face. He was and is known to be a shrewd operator when it comes to business. Robert Miller never needed the Greeks, it's the other way around.


Alexias wedding was expensive compared to the average person, but it was no where near the typical royal wedding. I would say that her pre wedding dress by Valentino was much more expensive than her actual wedding dress. Her dress was made by Anne-Marie's usual dressmaker Inge Sprawson. The family also negotiated low prices for the venue(Kenwood House) which started a minor scandal. This was no MC-Pavlos wedding.
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Old 09-06-2004, 11:45 AM
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Paloma, have you ever been to Kenwood House? It's quite lovely but imagine thinking that because it's down the hill from you and convenient to get to that this gives you the right to throw a party on trust-maintained property. As I'm sure you know this was why there was a scandal, it was perceived as King C. pulling strings to use property that wasn't private to stage a grand event. When and where was the Pia/Chris event? Are there pictures in any of the online newsmagazines of this? If Hola ran it I must have missed it.

Regarding MC, I think it's also interesting to note that when she married into the Greek RF she only got to be given the style of "HRH The Crown Princess of Greece" and not "HRH The Crown Princess Marie Chantal". AFAIK every single other crown princess has been able to officially use her own christian name with her title. Not MC. That tell us something perhaps like, if you divorce you won't be able to use your own name and title officially as a divorcee. I think that shows the level of trust toward her from King C. whatever he found himself forced to do in accepting her, something deeper in his own sense of judgment about her and his own remaining sense of his family honour stopped him giving her the level of royal style that other crown princesses have enjoyed. Another thing, was that King C. while he was Crown Prince had himself also enjoyed the title of Duke of Sparta from his father King Paul. However King C. has never granted that additional title to his own heir when Pavlos got married.
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:53 PM
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Julian, the party was mentioned in the September issue of American Vogue. However, there were no photos that appeared. Not surprising considering how averse they are to photo ops and interviews. MC and Pia are to the extreme. MC is a media whore while the other would rather have a root canal than sit for an interview!

I have not been lucky enough to visit Kenwood House. From photos, it is obviously beautiful. I totally understand the fuss that came from KC and his arrangement. Why should some deposed King be given preferential treatment?( being related to Prince Phillip is not a good enough reason)

I think that KC knew at the time of Pavlos and MC's wedding that should there be a divorce, MC would use her title to her utmost advantage. Therefore, no title of her own. I think we all know that had the Greeks still reigned, MC would never have been accepted into the family. This is a girl that if it were not for daddy's money, would be in the street. She didn't bother to finish her education and could never provide for herself. To me, this type of person is a waste. It kills me that people are impressed because she can host a dinner party, buy couture and pop out cute kids.
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