'Duke of Sparta' title

[saxon]

is the title of the Crown Prince of Greece The Duke of Sparta
someone told me it was, but I have never heard it referred to before

[Splodger]

The title of the Duke of Sparta is reserved as a subsidiary title of the Crown Prince of Greece. It is similar to Crown Prince Philip of Beligum being the Duke of Brabant or Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden being the Duchess of Vastergotland. The title follows after the senior title of Crown Prince. It is NOT however like the British system that has no title of Crown Prince and therefore The Prince of Wales is a senior title attributed to the heir to the throne, otherwise they would simply be The Prince X of the UK....

Thus the title of the current Duke of Sparta is:

Title:
HRH Pavlos The Crown Prince of Greece, The Duke of Sparta, Prince of Greece and Denmark.
Style:
HRH Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece

The reason Pavlos is not often refered to as The Duke of Sparta is beacuse it is a lesser title than that of Crown Prince. It may also be partially due to the fact that Greece had no other nobility apart from the Royal Family and therefore the Duke of Sparta was the ONLY Dukedom in pre-republic Greece.

Future of the Title:
Assuming the current republican regiem continues in Greece, Constantine II will be the last person to have the title of King (or Ex-King for Republicans). Pavlos will more than likley continue to use the title of Crown Prince, however their decendents may wish to assess the titles the family use. The Royal Family of Bavaria now use their lesser title of Duke of Bavaria and the Serbian Royal Family use the style of Crown Prince for the head of the family. The GRF may either continue to use the title of Crown Prince for the head of the family or may wish to use the Duke of Sparta instead... or perhaps after Constantine has passed away, if Pavlos uses Crown Prince he may wish for Constantine-Alexios to use the title Duke of Sparta.

[Chanel]

Thank you for the last post. I have always wondered this! Very well explained.

[saxon]

Thanks for that explanation it was very informative and interesting

[Splodger]

thank you - all more than welcome

[Philippe Egalite']

Originally Posted by Splodger

The title of the Duke of Sparta is reserved as a subsidiary title of the Crown Prince of Greece. It is similar to Crown Prince Philip of Beligum being the Duke of Brabant or Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden being the Duchess of Vastergotland. The title follows after the senior title of Crown Prince. It is NOT however like the British system that has no title of Crown Prince and therefore The Prince of Wales is a senior title attributed to the heir to the throne, otherwise they would simply be The Prince X of the UK....

Thus the title of the current Duke of Sparta is:

Title:
HRH Pavlos The Crown Prince of Greece, The Duke of Sparta, Prince of Greece and Denmark.
Style:
HRH Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece

The reason Pavlos is not often refered to as The Duke of Sparta is beacuse it is a lesser title than that of Crown Prince. It may also be partially due to the fact that Greece had no other nobility apart from the Royal Family and therefore the Duke of Sparta was the ONLY Dukedom in pre-republic Greece.

Future of the Title:
Assuming the current republican regiem continues in Greece, Constantine II will be the last person to have the title of King (or Ex-King for Republicans). Pavlos will more than likley continue to use the title of Crown Prince, however their decendents may wish to assess the titles the family use. The Royal Family of Bavaria now use their lesser title of Duke of Bavaria and the Serbian Royal Family use the style of Crown Prince for the head of the family. The GRF may either continue to use the title of Crown Prince for the head of the family or may wish to use the Duke of Sparta instead... or perhaps after Constantine has passed away, if Pavlos uses Crown Prince he may wish for Constantine-Alexios to use the title Duke of Sparta.

Queen Frederika, in defiance of the Constitution, named her son Duke of Sparta but the government never agreed to that for it was both unconstitutional and illegal [the late Aristovoulos Manessis, professor of Constitutional Law, has written in detail about that issue]. The title Duke of Sparta had been illegitimately and unconstitutionally also used by king Constantine's grandfather, king Constantine I.

The Constitution of 1952 disallowed titles of nobility (such as duke, marquess, count etc) and provided for only three subsantive titles, those of the king, the queen (consort) and the diadoch (heir to the throne). Indeed, in Greece, and while the monarchy was in effect, there weren't even titles of princes or princesses but a king's children were recognized as vassilopaides (ie royal children) in a manner and fashion similar to that of Spain, where the only prince or princess is the heir to the throne, while the other siblings are infantes and infantas. King Juan Carlos, of course, has always respected the Law of his Land and applied it down to the iota and this explains his immense popularity.
Sadly, the Greek royals chose differently.

[Charlotte1]

Constantine II did not have the title Duke of Sparta, he has stated so publically when asked directly by a royalty historian. As heir to the throne he was known as the Diadoch.

The Duke of Sparta title was used when referring to Constantine I but only outside of Greece. He was not 'Duke of Sparta' within Greece as the King could not give out titles according to the constitution.

Pavlos does not have the 'Duke of Sparta' as one of his titles, he never did.

[Philippe Egalite']

He did but he changed his mind following the public uproar. I own a rare publication by the Ministry to the Premiership (Minister George Rallis) on the royal family dated 1958, that is during the Karamnlis octannum. In there, Constantine is described as Diadoch, Duke of Sparta. Later on and in order to appease the disenchanted masses, and after Professor Manessis and other consitutional experts declared it unconstitutional, King Constantine backed off from this title and declared that it was not true that he was (or was elevated to) duke of Sparta, but it was. This rare publication is also available in the Library of the Borough of Kensighton (High Street Kensington) fo London, UK.

Needless to say that at this juncture, when former King Constantine of Greece is neither legally or constitutionally linked to the polity of Greece, nor does he hold Greek citizenship, he is free to style his son, Duke of Sparta, Marquess of Delphi, Earl of Rhodes, Viscount of Mycenae and Baron Arcadia or whatever his soul pleases since he still holds royal prerogative.

[Princess Robijn]

According to the Spanish Royal Family Marie-Chantal is:

Su Alteza Real la Princesa Marie-Chantal de Grecia

Duquesa de Esparta

http://www.casareal.es/boda/info/InvitadosCatedral.pdf

(Ik know she would technically be HRH Crown Princess Pavlos, but still)

[Odette]

Princess Robijn, this title is twice wrong. She has been fashioned HRH Princess Pavlos of Greece, not C.P MC of Greece.
The Spanish Court is of course closely related to the GRF and they have every right to include her in their guest lists by any names and titles they wish, but that does not mean these are her correct titles.
BTW When, hopefully years from now, K Constantine passes, Pavlos will be referred to as pretender to the throne, not Crown Prince.

[Princess Robijn]

You mean not as King, as he is Crown Prince?

[Warren]

Posts discussing Pavlos's future title have been moved to the Pavlos title of King thread.