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  #221  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:25 AM
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I know they had a tense relationship and often wondered is that why he made her a mere Baroness rather than a Countess or Duchess.
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8th of October 1515 ; Birth of The Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox
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  #222  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:31 AM
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I know they had a tense relationship and often wondered is that why he made her a mere Baroness rather than a Countess or Duchess.
Actually, if you were to ask me who is the most controversial figure of royalty/princely family of the 20th century? I think the Baroness would be part of my top 5. Imagine what she and her lover (before they got married) Jean-Charles Rey did to depose Prince Rainier III and to declare herself regent on the basis of having a son who would one day inherit the throne. It was one big of a controversy then that led to the breakup of the Sovereign Prince and her French Actress girlfriend Gisèle Pascal after rumors of her being infertile broke out.
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  #223  
Old 06-29-2019, 09:03 AM
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There was really no recorded ordinance or whatsoever regarding this. However, it was reported in 2009, following the release of his new diplomatic passport that he was officially recognized as Baron de Massy. I am trying to uncover the link but it's not working right now.

What is certain is that before time there use of their mother's title was not officially recognized in Monaco since they are not entitled to it.
Thank you for undertaking to trace the report. If you are able to uncover a working link at a later time, I hope that you can share it.

My guess is that the unofficial use of their mother/grandmother's title is a derivation from the historic French and Italian influence on Monaco. In the aristocracy of France and likewise in the historical Italian aristocracy, many titles were officially recognized only for the individual who received it under primogeniture, but were used unofficially even during his lifetime by his children and grandchildren who were not entitled to it.

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I've often wondered given the volume of titles held by the Prince of Monaco why Rainier III granted his sister the lowly one of Baroness when he could have made her Countess of Polignac as an example.
As Prince Pierre was a younger son the titles held by the Polignacs did not pass to the House of Grimaldi, but the titles held by the Princes of Monaco include many titles of Marquess and Count which could have been conferred on the Princess. Perhaps Rainier III thought Countess or Marchioness was too high an honor for a sister with whom he had such an uneasy relationship?
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  #224  
Old 06-29-2019, 09:13 AM
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Thank you for undertaking to trace the report. If you are able to uncover a working link at a later time, I hope that you can share it.

My guess is that the unofficial use of their mother/grandmother's title is a derivation from the historic French and Italian influence on Monaco. In the aristocracy of France and likewise in the historical Italian aristocracy, many titles were officially recognized only for the individual who received it under primogeniture, but were used unofficially even during his lifetime by his children and grandchildren who were not entitled to it.



As Prince Pierre was a younger son the titles held by the Polignacs did not pass to the House of Grimaldi, but the titles held by the Princes of Monaco include many titles of Marquess and Count which could have been conferred on the Princess. Perhaps Rainier III thought Countess or Marchioness was too high an honor for a sister with whom he had such an uneasy relationship?

It could also be that case. But what I think is, Prince Rainier III must have only given her a title for life and not a hereditary one. It also remains a mystery yet if the "Baron de Massy" that Christian is officially using right now can be inherited by his only legitimate son Antoine de Massy. His son with the Guadeloupean, Cécile Irène Gelabale.
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  #225  
Old 06-29-2019, 10:37 AM
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I've often wondered given the volume of titles held by the Prince of Monaco why Rainier III granted his sister the lowly one of Baroness when he could have made her Countess of Polignac as an example.
The title Prince (Princesse) and Comte (Comtesse) de Polignac belongs to the head of the paternal House of Rainier, Albert and Jacques, all male agnates of the Maison de Polignac. The actual Chef is Armand-Charles Emmanuel Marie Joseph Jules de Polignac (born 1946), 8e duc de Polignac. The current Duke has no issue. His heirs come out of a younger son of the 5e duc de Polignac.

1
Alain Aimery Edmond Armand Prince de Polignac (1940)
Son of Edmond Jean Henri Marie Prince de Polignac (1914-2010)
And of Ghislaine Charlotte Claire Paule Brinquant-Durand de Villers (1918)

2
Ludovic Alain Edmond Jean Marie Prince de Polignac (1974)
Son of Alain Aimery Edmond Armand Prince de Polignac (1940)
And of Nathalie Marie Princesse de Ligne (1948-1992)

Prince Rainier had no right to bestow the title Comtesse de Polignac on Antoinette (but she herself WAS a Polignac, of course, as Grimaldi is just the chosen name of the dynasty).

In agnatic descendance Grimaldi is extinct for centuries. Charlotte (Rainier's mother) was a De Goyon de Matignon who married a De Polignac.
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  #226  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Rainier had no right to bestow the title Comtesse de Polignac on Antoinette (but she herself WAS a Polignac, of course, as Grimaldi is just the chosen name of the dynasty).

In agnatic descendance Grimaldi is extinct for centuries. Charlotte (Rainier's mother) was a De Goyon de Matignon who married a De Polignac.
Grimaldi is not only the inherited name of the dynasty but the only family name of the princes and princesses of Monaco, although under current practice they do not usually use a last name. In contrast to the Netherlands, the husbands of Monegasque sovereign princesses took on the Grimaldi name and their birth names were never passed to their Grimaldi issue.
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  #227  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:51 PM
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Wasn't Prince Jaques Ier a member of the Goyon de Matignon ,he also married a Princess of Monaco (Louise).
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8th of October 1515 ; Birth of The Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox
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  #228  
Old 06-29-2019, 07:05 PM
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Wasn't Prince Jaques Ier a member of the Goyon de Matignon ,he also married a Princess of Monaco (Louise).
Yes, that's right. His family name was changed to Grimaldi on marriage (as noted in the ordinance which changed the name of Hereditary Princess Charlotte's husband to Grimaldi), but he remained the heir to his parents' dominions, from which are derived several titles held by the princes of Monaco, for example Count of Thorigny.
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  #229  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:20 AM
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Antoine de Massy in Salar de Uyuni, Bolivia.


**https://www.instagram.com/p/B0qdP92A5Sg/
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  #230  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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Duc and pair , the late princess Antoinette and the De Massy Family

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Antoine de Massy in Salar de Uyuni, Bolivia.


**https://www.instagram.com/p/B0qdP92A5Sg/
Always, the same story, it is hard to read that there is no more Grimaldi, the names of the family went through the women, , the women are not inferior to the men, they belong to the family , what an old idea!

The Grimaldi family is like the other royal families, we are never saying that the Dutch royal family is not the Orange family since a long time , Queen Wilhemin was married with Henry of Mecklemburg Scherin, Julian was then Juliana Mecklemburg scherin who married Berhanrd of Lippe Bietersfeld , Beatrix was then Beatrix of Lippe Biesterfeld who married Claus Von Amsberg, whe never called the King Wilhem Alexander, mister Von Amsberg

He is the King of the niederland , orange dynastie


It is the same for the Grand Duc Henry , his mother married Felix of Nassau

Same for the Queen of England, Charles of Wales will not be Mister of Mountbattem


In the next years, the children of the future Queens in the europa monarchies will keep the names of the dynaties whose they will belong even if their fathers will not be from these dynasties

these comments are haughtly and not true,


The women have the equal rights and among these rights , the name of the family Why the the names would Always passed throught the men , explain us Why?
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