Monaco's succession issues

[Warren]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

BTW: is true that in Liechenstein still exist the straight salic law, no women in the throne ever?

Yes, the Liechtenstein Constitution of 2003 states "the first-born male of the eldest line is always called to succeed to the throne" (House Laws, Part III The Reigning Prince, Article 12 Succession to the throne). The House Laws are incorporated in the constitution of the Principality.

[Lakshmi]

Changes in rules of succession may not happen in Monaco soon. The constitution was changed just recently(in 2002) and guarantees the heir to Monegasque throne. So maybe we will need to wait another generation for any changes to happen.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by AustinTexas1961

Hello. I just finished watching "Princess Diaries 2". Yes, I do realize that it is only a movie. But it did remind me that, currently in Monaco, daughters do not have equal succession rights as in other countries like Denmark, Sweden and Norway. HSH Prince Albert will (likely) marry (hopefully soon) and have his own heirs. Is it possible for him to issue a decree and allow for his eldest child, regardless of sex, to be his heir / heiress assumptive? It would be a modern decision to equalize the succession laws, at least beginning with his own future daughters and sons. Would someone more knowledgeable than I please explain the process to modernize the current Monegasque succession laws? Kindest regards, Roman in Austin, Texas

The law in Denmark was about to be changed, but Christian's birth altered at least the speed in which it would be done. As it stands, sons go before daughters in Denmark, as in Monaco.

[Suonymona]

The change in 2002 was made primarily so that no matter the sex, there would still be an heir and Monaco would never cede back to France.

If Albert only has a female heir, she's the one apt to change the rules further.


Ann

[enchantednights]

this is just in the case that albert doesn't produce a legitimate heir.

we would have to wait for andrea's children to see if the law will be changed...i'm hoping it will.

[mwhite3182]

and the second is a son, would the daughter be first in line for the throne or would the son?

[enchantednights]

Originally Posted by mwhite3182

and the second is a son, would the daughter be first in line for the throne or would the son?

as of now the son. they haven't changed that part of the constitution.

[acid_rain3075]

Originally Posted by enchantednights

as of now the son. they haven't changed that part of the constitution.

Yeah thats right! Monaco's constitution still favors the men over the women! If it were otherwise Princess Caroline and not Prince Albert would be on the throne!

[TrustWorthy]

Originally Posted by acid_rain3075

Yeah thats right! Monaco's constitution still favors the men over the women! If it were otherwise Princess Caroline and not Prince Albert would be on the throne!

PA can change all that to suit his wishes.
Hence, Princess Charlotte, mother of Prince Rainier III, and
grandmother of Prince Albert II.

Whatever He (PA) wants He Shall Get

[pama]

How can he change the constitution. His father the late Prince Rainier change it, It took a couple of year for him to do that then what was the point

[pinklady1991]

Originally Posted by TrustWorthy

PA can change all that to suit his wishes.
Hence, Princess Charlotte, mother of Prince Rainier III, and
grandmother of Prince Albert II.

Whatever He (PA) wants He Shall Get

I thought some deal was struck so that Charlotte wouldn't technically inherit the throne...something about it going to her husband. (There was a reigning princess some time in the 1800s I think -- can someone refresh my memory?) I believe Charlotte's husband had to agree to change his name to Grimaldi (thus the continuation of the name to Antoinette and Rainier) but once they were divorced he changed his name back to the Comte de Polignac.

True, whatever PA wants, he will get. Let's see that when and if he marries, how many children and what gender they will be. Right now this is all hypothetical...interesting, but hypothetical.

[Suonymona]

I don't think PA will change the constitution to favor a first-born legitimate daughter. Too many people will argue that if he were to do that, it should be to legitimize his oldest son.

Were the daughter the only legitimate child, she would become the reigning Sovereign Princess. I think then she most likely would change the constitution to something similar to Sweden's (which resulted in Crown Princess Victoria).

However, until the daughter had children, Caroline would still be heir presumptive.

Ann

[acid_rain3075]

Originally Posted by Suonymona

I don't think PA will change the constitution to favor a first-born legitimate daughter. Too many people will argue that if he were to do that, it should be to legitimize his oldest son.

Were the daughter the only legitimate child, she would become the reigning Sovereign Princess. I think then she most likely would change the constitution to something similar to Sweden's (which resulted in Crown Princess Victoria).

However, until the daughter had children, Caroline would still be heir presumptive.

Ann

There is only one way for Prince Alberts eldest son to be legitimized, and that can only be accomplished by Prince Albert marring Alexandre's mother. Clearly that seems unlikely! Now even if he did try to change the constitution to a full linear succession, I don't see why anyone would try to try to make Alexandre legitimate. Mainly because the current constitution is clear when it comes to legitimate and illegitimate children! But I don't think its completely clear when it come to female heir thing or whatever! Thats just my take on the issue of course, but I maybe be completely wrong so please feel free to correct me!!!!

[Laviollette]

Originally Posted by Suonymona

I don't think PA will change the constitution to favor a first-born legitimate daughter. Too many people will argue that if he were to do that, it should be to legitimize his oldest son.

Were the daughter the only legitimate child, she would become the reigning Sovereign Princess. I think then she most likely would change the constitution to something similar to Sweden's (which resulted in Crown Princess Victoria).

However, until the daughter had children, Caroline would still be heir presumptive.

Ann

Why would it matter what people argue? If Albert wants to change the constitution for him and his wife's first-born, regardless if she's a daughter, to succeed him, he'll change the constitution. And, hypothetically, if he and the princess of mc had a daughter under the current constitution, that daughter would become the heiress presumptive, in front of Caroline. Only a son born to the union would displace the daughter as heir.

[Suonymona]

If Albert and bride only had a daughter, there would be no need for a constitutional change to that of the eldest child without regard to sex. She would be the only (legitimate) heir.

Yes, the daughter would be first the automatic heir apparent and moved to heir presumptive should a younger brother be born (as Caroline was when Albert was born).

To clarify: I meant when the [only/firstborn] daughter became Sovereign Princess and ruler of Monaco, until she had children, Caroline would be her heir presumptive.

Ann

[Avalon]

it's a funny thread though. Prince Albert doesn't have any legitimate children yet, leave alone a daughter and a son, and we are discussing which of them should be the heir.

[Suonymona]

We're bored.

Albert isn't giving us anything else to clack over.

Ann

[tbhrc]

I have merged serveral threads, all with the same topic - the Succession issue in Monaco. Now everthing related to that subject can be posted in this thread.

tbhrc
Monaco Moderator

[Suonymona]

tbhrc

I'd forgotten whereall some of these came from. Great blend!

Ann

[Juliet]

Originally Posted by Laviollette

If Caroline died before Albert before he fathered a legitimate heir, Andrea would be in the same position as heir apparent and would be titled as such. source: Wikipedia - see Future succession http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of..._of_succession

I don't believe that is correct. I think Andrea would only be heir apparent if Caroline succeeded Albert. As long as Albert is still alive, there is still the possibility that he may father a legitimate child, so Andrea can not be heir apparent in that situation.

Originally Posted by Suonymona

But if Andrea had no legitimate children (or illegitimate-heaven forbid!), Pierre would be Andrea's heir apparent and Charlotte the heir presumptive. This is where I think they all would be titled.

No, Pierre would be heir presumptive in that situation.