Monaco's succession issues

[LadyMacAlpine]

Originally Posted by pinklady1991

I've read this as well...all three siblings are very close, I can't imagine any one of the three not wanting anything but the best for the others. I'm sure some of the familial drama of generations past is over with -- if not it would be sad for Princess Grace's legacy. From what I've read about her, she raised her children to be supportive of each other -- when things go bad, close ranks.

Well said, paca. While well-intentioned friends and family may want you to find someone and be happy, you don't want to be with someone just for the sake of being with someone. :)

Yep, that's me...Princess Pinky. I have this sinking feeling that I will soon have a visit from the Dept. of State about my "hostile remarks" toward another nation.

Liz -- I don't want to be condescending but I think your English is adorable and excellent.

Don't forget while you all are plotting to take over Monaco and marry Albert I said he was already spoken for.

[msleiman]

Albert does not seem to want to get married, so who is next in line for the throne? Can a Carolina take the throne?

[cro girl]

Caroline is next in line then Andrea, Pierre, Charlotte, Princess Stephanie, Louis and Pauline.

[memoo]

Does Alexandra have a place in line for the Grimaldi throne?

[msleiman]

I was thinking that only men could take the throne.

[pinklady1991]

The line of succession in Monaco leans toward male primogeniture. Caroline is now the Marquess des Baux as Albert was before her. Should Albert father a child within a marriage, he/she will be the Marquis/Marquess des Baux. I'm not sure if this part has changed with the 2002 Constitution, but once Rainier married and had children, Antoinette and her family were no longer in the line of succession. I believe the same will happen to Stephanie's children once and if Albert should marry. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[AplePie]

Originally Posted by msleiman

Albert does not seem to want to get married, so who is next in line for the throne? Can a Carolina take the throne?

I was watching the E! True Hollywood Story of young royals and they said that Albert will most likely pass the throne to Andrea.

[michelle]

Originally Posted by pinklady1991

The line of succession in Monaco leans toward male primogeniture. Caroline is now the Marquess des Baux as Albert was before her. Should Albert father a child within a marriage, he/she will be the Marquis/Marquess des Baux. I'm not sure if this part has changed with the 2002 Constitution, but once Rainier married and had children, Antoinette and her family were no longer in the line of succession. I believe the same will happen to Stephanie's children once and if Albert should marry. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Why do you think this will happen only to Stephanie's children ...
...+ Antoinette's family is in the line of succession.

[pinklady1991]

Originally Posted by michelle

Why do you think this will happen only to Stephanie's children ...
...+ Antoinette's family is in the line of succession.

Just something I read...it may have had something to do with the change in 2002 but in one book I read it mentioned that there isn't this long string of heirs such as the British monarchy. Glad you could clarify.

[Laviollette]

Current line of succession

Current Monarch: HSH Albert II
1. HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover
2. Andrea Casiraghi
3. Pierre Casiraghi
4. Charlotte Casiraghi
5. HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover
6. HSH Princess Stephanie
7. Louis Ducruet
8. Pauline Ducruet

The following nine people were formerly 10 through 18 in line, before the death of Prince Rainier and Albert's enthronement:
10. HSH Princess Antoinette, Baroness of Massy
11. Baron Christian de Massy
12. Baron Brice de Massy
13. Baron Antoine de Massy
14. Baroness Laetizia de Massy
15. Baroness Elisabeth-Anne de Massy
16. Jean-Leonard Taubert Natta
17. Melanie de Lusignan
18. Keith Sebastian Knecht
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of..._of_succession

[msleiman]

Will Albert give Princess Caroline's son a royal title since it looks like he will one day take the throne. If this happens, he will come to the throne with no title.

[Suonymona]

Should Albert, Caroline and her children and Stephanie and her older two children all die without heirs, Antoinette and her living children will be put back in the line of succession. They were removed once Rainier died. His children and their children are the current line.

Albert is current reigning, followed by Caroline as heir presumptive, Andrea, Pierre, Charlotte and Alexandra. Though Alexandra is a HRH of Hanover, she is still in line for the throne of Monaco.

Should all the above all die without heirs, next would be Stephanie, Louis and Pauline. Camille is ineligible as she is illegitimate-her parents never married. Should they marry, Camille will be behind Pauline in line.

Should Albert and Nicole marry, only then would Eric become eligible. He would be ahead of Caroline as would any legitimate children of Albert's.

Albert cannot pass the throne to Andrea. Should Albert die without legitimate heirs, Caroline inherits the throne. She may pass it to Andrea without serving as her grandmother Charlotte did to her father Rainier. Albert no longer has the option to adopt Andrea and make him the direct heir. E! is wrong about that.

If Albert marries and has children, Caroline, her children and Stephanie and her children are pushed to the bottom as Antoinette and her children were after Caroline and Albert were born.
Once Albert dies, his legitimate children are the line of succession and Caroline, Stephanie and all their children drop off as Antoinette and her living children currently have.

Its rather a muddle, but I hope I've made it a little easier to understand. Feel free to ask questions, someone around here always knows or can get the answers!

Ann

eta clarification of grammar

[Suonymona]

Originally Posted by michelle

Why do you think this will happen only to Stephanie's children ...
...+ Antoinette's family is in the line of succession.

Once Albert has legitimate children, both Caroline and Stephanie's family drop off as Antoinette's currently have.

Antoinette and her living children are not currently in the direct line of succession.

Ann

[Suonymona]

Does anyone know if Albert dies without legitimate heirs and Caroline assumes the throne, would she have to title Andrea, Pierre and Charlotte, just Andrea as the heir or would Andrea automatically get a title as heir?

He would obviously get one should he be passed the throne straight through Caroline (HSH Prince Andrea I) and there are some titles automatically conferred as heir (Duke of Valentinois and Marquis of Baux I think they are) but those are not that of Serene Highness.


Ann

ETA spelling error

[msleiman]

sorry to keep asking, but if Caroline dies before Albert then next in line is Andrea?

[Laviollette]

Originally Posted by Suonymona

Does anyone know if Albert dies without legitimate heirs and Caroline assumes the throne, would she have to title Andrea, Pierre and Charlotte, just Andrea as the heir or would Andrea automatically get a title as heir?

He would obviously get one should he be passed the throne straight through Caroline (HSH Prince Andrea I) and there are some titles automatically conferred as heir (Duke of Valentinois and Marquis of Baux I think they are) but those are not that of Serene Highness.

If Caroline gained the throne, her eldest son Andrea would become heir apparent. At that time, he would probably receive the traditional titles of the heir to Monaco's throne (becoming HSH Hereditary Prince Andrea of Monaco, Marquis of Baux) and assume the Grimaldi surname. If Caroline died before Albert before he fathered a legitimate heir, Andrea would be in the same position as heir apparent and would be titled as such. source: Wikipedia - see Future succession http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of..._of_succession

[monica17]

Originally Posted by memoo

Does Alexandra have a place in line for the Grimaldi throne?

Alexandra is next in line after Caroline, Andrea, Pierre and Charlotte.

If I remember it correctly, Antoinette and her descendants have lost their places in the line of sucession upon Rainier's death but may be considered by the Crown Council as heirs/heiresses in the event that the lines of Albert, Caroline and Stephanie become extinct (unlikely to happen).

[Suonymona]

Laviollette

Thanks for the clarification.

The only way the crown can pass directly from Albert to Andrea is for Caroline to die before Albert produces heirs.

Should that occur (or any set of circumstances in which Andrea becomes reigning Prince), Andrea and his descendants become the direct line of succession. Stephanie and her family would drop off as would Pierre, Charlotte and Alexandra. But if Andrea had no legitimate children (or illegitimate-heaven forbid!), Pierre would be Andrea's heir apparent and Charlotte the heir presumptive. This is where I think they all would be titled.

But let's give it another ten years before we figure out all the successional possibilities. I feel like I'm learning chess with all the combinations!

Ann

[AustinTexas1961]

Hello. I just finished watching "Princess Diaries 2". Yes, I do realize that it is only a movie. But it did remind me that, currently in Monaco, daughters do not have equal succession rights as in other countries like Denmark, Sweden and Norway. HSH Prince Albert will (likely) marry (hopefully soon) and have his own heirs. Is it possible for him to issue a decree and allow for his eldest child, regardless of sex, to be his heir / heiress assumptive? It would be a modern decision to equalize the succession laws, at least beginning with his own future daughters and sons. Would someone more knowledgeable than I please explain the process to modernize the current Monegasque succession laws? Kindest regards, Roman in Austin, Texas

[pinklady1991]

Originally Posted by AustinTexas1961

Hello. I just finished watching "Princess Diaries 2". Yes, I do realize that it is only a movie. But it did remind me that, currently in Monaco, daughters do not have equal succession rights as in other countries like Denmark, Sweden and Norway. HSH Prince Albert will (likely) marry (hopefully soon) and have his own heirs. Is it possible for him to issue a decree and allow for his eldest child, regardless of sex, to be his heir / heiress assumptive? It would be a modern decision to equalize the succession laws, at least beginning with his own future daughters and sons. Would someone more knowledgeable than I please explain the process to modernize the current Monegasque succession laws? Kindest regards, Roman in Austin, Texas

Hello...I preferred the original myself...harmless fun...

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Monaco and Denmark still have male primogeniture. The throne goes to the first born of the king/queen of Norway & Sweden regardless of sex. Albert probably would have the prerogative to change the succession laws if he so chose.

Rumor has it that Spain is considering to change from male primogeniture but I think they would probably want to wait until Felipe & Letizia are finished having children. To me it is a rather conservative royal house and they probably abide by the rule, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."