Monaco's succession issues

[FanofMonaco]

The current law still has boys first.

[smdouglas]

Originally Posted by FanofMonaco

The current law still has boys first.

For those interested: The information is contained in Article 10 of The Constitution (2002) (French and English).

[Queen Shirley]

So his two children are not in line of succession because of they are illegitimate births. I understand that. But if they move to Monaco and become citizen? or does the Prince Albert have to legally "adopt them" even tho he has claimed they are his children?

[NGalitzine]

Adoption is not an available option since the 2002 constitutional changes.
He could only legitimize his children by marrying their mothers, the same way Stephanies 2 eldest children are in the line of succession because she married their fathers after their births but her youngest is not in the line of succession because she never married the father.

[LadyMacAlpine]

Originally Posted by Queen Shirley

So his two children are not in line of succession because of they are illegitimate births. I understand that. But if they move to Monaco and become citizen? or does the Prince Albert have to legally "adopt them" even tho he has claimed they are his children?

I've said this many times and so has others. The only way either of Albert's children can become his heir is he has to divorce Charlene and have the marriage annulled by the Catholic Church then Albert has to marry the mother of the child he decides to make his heir. If he had wanted to that happen he would have married Tamara or Nicole instead of Charlene.

[Jaya]

If Princess Charlene does bear an heir maybe Prince Albert will give the throne to one of Caro's kids?Unless his children sue like those of Picasso[his illegits got their share of the estate] they are unlikely to inherit but then again these times they are a changing

[NGalitzine]

The line of succession in Monaco is pretty clear so there is no succession crisis or succession issue.
1 Caroline, Hereditary Princess of Monaco
2 Andrea Casiraghi
3 Pierre Casiraghi
4 Charlotte Casiraghi
5 Princess Alexandra of Hanover
6 Princess Stephanie of Monaco
7 Louis Ducruet
8 Pauline Ducruet
Alberts 2 children by women he did not marry have no rights of succession to the throne although they will share in his private fortune. The laws on succession to the throne and the laws of inheritance to private wealth are different. The law of succession is part of the constitution.

[kathia_sophia]

^isnt Princess Alexandra 5th? then Princess Stephanie 6#, Louis 7# and Pauline 8#.

when Princess Stephanie of Luxembourg was born, her mother was 40 and her father was 60!..i read somewhere that a man can produce children until their 70s, Albert is young compared to that age, so im expecting soon or later an official pregnancy annoucement^^

[LadyMacAlpine]

Originally Posted by Jaya

If Princess Charlene does bear an heir maybe Prince Albert will give the throne to one of Caro's kids?Unless his children sue like those of Picasso[his illegits got their share of the estate] they are unlikely to inherit but then again these times they are a changing

Albert would need to abdicate before having a child with Charlene other wise the child is the heir. If he decided to change the Constitution again and that is a big if to pass over his legitimate heirs it could cause a legal battle down the line should his child or children fight for it.

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

^isnt Princess Alexandra 5th? then Princess Stephanie 6#, Louis 7# and Pauline 8#.

when Princess Stephanie of Luxembourg was born, her mother was 40 and her father was 60!..i read somewhere that a man can produce children until their 70s, Albert is young compared to that age, so im expecting soon or later an official pregnancy annoucement^^

Yes, Alexandra is 5th in line.

[Danishla]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

The line of succession in Monaco is pretty clear so there is no succession crisis or succession issue.
1 Caroline, Hereditary Princess of Monaco
2 Andrea Casiraghi
3 Pierre Casiraghi
4 Charlotte Casiraghi
5 Princess Alexandra of Hanover
6 Princess Stephanie of Monaco
7 Louis Ducruet
8 Pauline Ducruet
Alberts 2 children by women he did not marry have no rights of succession to the throne although they will share in his private fortune. The laws on succession to the throne and the laws of inheritance to private wealth are different. The law of succession is part of the constitution.

Isnt' there another daughter of Princess Stephanie missing from the list?

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Danishla

Isnt' there another daughter of Princess Stephanie missing from the list?

As Camille's parents never married she is not in line for the throne.

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by smdouglas

Wikipedia provides the line of succession here. It's accurate. The pertinent portion of the Monaco constitution is provided (in English) here.

I know. What I said complies perfectly with both

[LadyMacAlpine]

Originally Posted by Kotroman

If that's so, Jazmin (being born of adultery) has no chance whatsoever of succeeding to the Monegasque throne, unlike her half-brother Alexandre. Alexandre has a slight chance of succeeding in the event that his father marries his mother one day, though he is much more likely to be hit by a meteor

A legal separation in CA is almost the same as a divorce. The only thing you can't do when you get one is remarry. David and Tamara were divorced after Jazmin was born and David took a DNA test. They weren't married in the Catholic Church either. Its all been discussed in the old threads.

[Kotroman]

Almost the same does not amount to the same, though. The fact that you cannot remarry indicates that the marriage is not yet dissolved. The fact that they divorced after Jazmin's birth doesn't change the fact that they were married (albeit seperated) at the moment of her birth. I'm not sure what's David's DNA testing got to do with this.

Now, about the Catholic Church marriage thing - is it required for a marriage to be deemed legal in the Principality of Monaco? I doubt so, as that would be against the principle of seperation of church and state.

[LadyMacAlpine]

In order for the divorce to be granted and David not pay child support he took a DNA test to prove he wasn't the father. I would take it that that is the only reason the divorce wasn't done before Jazmin's birth. David is a Tabloid reporter so I'm sure details can be found in old copies.

[NGalitzine]

Albert has the title of Marquis de Baux until there is an heir apparent. Caroline was heiress presumptive at her birth until the birth of Albert but her father never gave her any of his noble titles. At the moment there is no heir apparent who would normally receive the title of Marquis de Baux.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Kotroman

Now, about the Catholic Church marriage thing - is it required for a marriage to be deemed legal in the Principality of Monaco? I doubt so, as that would be against the principle of seperation of church and state.

It isn't; in fact, only civil weddings are recognised as legal in Monaco.

[LadyMacAlpine]

Originally Posted by Kotroman

Now, about the Catholic Church marriage thing - is it required for a marriage to be deemed legal in the Principality of Monaco? I doubt so, as that would be against the principle of seperation of church and state.

I forgot to answer this part. In order for a person to ascend to the Throne in Monaco they need to be Roman Catholic. Like in Britain the Sovereign must belong to the Church of England, nor can they marry a Roman Catholic.

If you go back in the thread you should find discussions about Caroline needing an annulment from Junot from the Church so her children would be legitimate heirs to the Throne. In the eyes of the Church even though she was legally divorced and legally married to Casiraghi the Church only recognized her marriage to Junot.

[NGalitzine]

[QUOTE=LadyMacAlpine;1485490]
If you go back in the thread you should find discussions about Caroline needing an annulment from Junot from the Church so her children would be legitimate heirs to the Throne.IQUOTE]

How do you reconcile that with Stephanie's 2 eldest children being in the line of succession when she only had a civil marriage. The civil marriage legitimized her children according to the laws of Monaco. They are also Roman Catholic. Carolines children were also legitimate heirs according to the laws of Monaco because of their parents civil marriage regardless of the opinion of the church which apparently did not have a problem with them being baptized in the RC faith before the annulment. The annulment may have legitimized her children in the eyes of the Church but even without that they were legitimate heirs to the throne.

[rosana]

I believe the press is responsible for this mess as regards succession issues. I remember reading that Caroline needed the annulment so that her children would be legitmate. I think now that was not true at all. She wanted the annulment because she wanted to marry Casiraghi, for personal reasons, because she is a Catholic, but not because that way her children could inherit. In fact, Louis never married Charlotte´s mother, Marie Juliette Louvet, and she enherited anyway. The Constitution does not state that the heir has to be born in a Catholic marriage.

La Constitution de la Principauté / Les Institutions / Gouvernement et Institutions / Portail du Gouvernement - Monaco