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  #21  
Old 03-31-2004, 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by kittencrews@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 4:16 am
I believe I read Camille wasn't in line to the "throne" because Stephanie hadn't announced who her father was... but that could be wrong
I thought that only children who had been legitimized by their parents' marriage could be in the line of succession. Isn't this why Camille isn't included, because her parents were never married?

Has it changed and now children need only be accepted by their fathers and given his surname?
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2004, 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by Jacqueline+Mar 31st, 2004 - 7:28 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jacqueline &#064; Mar 31st, 2004 - 7:28 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kittencrews@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 4:16 am
I believe I read Camille wasn&#39;t in line to the "throne" because Stephanie hadn&#39;t announced who her father was... but that could be wrong
I thought that only children who had been legitimized by their parents&#39; marriage could be in the line of succession. Isn&#39;t this why Camille isn&#39;t included, because her parents were never married?

Has it changed and now children need only be accepted by their fathers and given his surname? [/b][/quote]
You&#39;re right Jacqueline&#33; Camille was never in the line because her parents were never married. Even though the little Ducruets were born out of wedlock, their parents married later.

By the way, the first thought is not even an option since it is an invention from the ever creative press. Camille does not have an undeclared father. Her father is JR and her last name is Gottlieb, not Grimaldi like many people think. Take a look at the end of the text in the link:

http://www.palais.mc/wwwpal.nsf/ABDA2D1C46...1256BA7002D737E
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2004, 02:29 PM
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If Albert Becomes Prince...will then Caroline be Hereditary Princess?

Just assuming for a moment that indeed Albert will follow Ranier as Prince of Monaco, will then Caroline be Hereditary Princess? I know she will be heir presumptive to the throne...but I was just wondering what happens to the Hereditary title.
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2004, 03:19 PM
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I have heard Albert say in interviews that there is no problem with sucession. That his sister&#39;s children will inherit the throne if dies w/o an heir. So after the death of male sucessor in direct line then it will most likely go to the oldest sister then her son Andreas. Albert has said the male only rule of Monaco, or Monaco reverting to French rule is a myth.
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2004, 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Fashionista100@Apr 16th, 2004 - 2:19 pm
I have heard Albert say in interviews that there is no problem with sucession. That his sister&#39;s children will inherit the throne if dies w/o an heir. So after the death of male sucessor in direct line then it will most likely go to the oldest sister then her son Andreas. Albert has said the male only rule of Monaco, or Monaco reverting to French rule is a myth.
It&#39;s not a myth. It used to be that way and now it isn&#39;t anymore. After Albert, the one in the line is Caroline. But we must remember that she&#39;s older than Albert, so, when Albert is to old to reign or dies, Caroline will be even older. So, it&#39;ll proobably go to Andrea. And if Andrea does not want, he has a ton of sibs and cousins in the line and out of it(that could be added in the future).
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2004, 05:42 PM
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That is what I thought, that she is second in line before Andrea. She would need to officially step aside. But would she become officially "Hereditary Princess"?
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  #27  
Old 04-17-2004, 03:30 AM
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There wasn&#39;t a male only rule it was a child of previous Prince/ss rule. The previous law (only recently changed) only allowd for direct inheritance not collatoral. Under the old law Caroline, Stephanie and their progeny would have lost their succession rights the moment Albert had become the Prince. However, the law has been changed.

No Caroline will not become The Hereditary Princess of Monaco, Marquess de Baux. Those titles are conferred not inherited. Although, the Marquis de Baux could be inherited it is always worn by the holder of the Hereditary Prince title. Albert would have to formally invest Caroline as Hereditary Princess.......this I doubt will happen. She will be heiress presumtive as first in line. Presumtive meaning she can be displaced by a birth. Albert is heir apparent in that he cannot be displaced from his position as heir except by his own death.
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  #28  
Old 04-19-2004, 12:01 PM
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So assuming Albert does inhereit, you would not expect him to name Caroline that, but she is still next in line, correct?
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2004, 05:42 PM
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Caroline would be next in line when Albert acceeds. I wouldn&#39;t expect Albert to name Caroline as Hereditary Princess - no. I think if he remains childless for the next 25 years the title hereditary prince will remain vacant. She doesn&#39;t need to be named hereditary princess to follow him to the throne. The title is traditionally held by the oldest son of the monarch.
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  #30  
Old 04-20-2004, 05:45 PM
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I read that Andrea is now taking a greater role in official functions of Monaco. Is this true? Does anyone have any pictures of any of the Casiraghti Trio doing any official functions?
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  #31  
Old 04-21-2004, 09:29 AM
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I would only add that adoption is no longer an option for Monaco. In extending the succession into the collatoral lines the new laws did away with the adoption provision.

I would also add that the laws also extend the succession only to the decendants of Prince Rainier meaning that Princess Antoinette and her progeny are still excluded.


The issue of Caroline's title and status is one I frequently hear. First, and foremost she is of the exact same rank as she was since the day Albert was born. Her marriage to Ernst August did not change her rank, precedence, or status!! It merely changed her "title." She is now offically HRH The Princess of Hanover. However, the Hanover titles are merely surnames now and not titles. The designation of Royal Highness ceased to exist in Germany at the same time the monarchy did. They still use the title, but it has no legal validity.

Caroline is still outranked by her father and her brother!!! In fact, Ernst August gets HIS rank from being married to Caroline not the other way around. She, as the daughter of a reingning monarch, has the rank he has none what-so-ever as the head of a former dynasty that reigned a very, very long time ago. When they go to a wedding or ball they are ranked as Caroline and spouse and are placed in order with the children of other monarchs and their spouses. If they were ranked as merely HRH The Prince/ss of Hanover without Caroline's status as Rainier's daughter they would not even be seated with the royals.

I would also note that rank does not derive from titles or styles (all forms of Highness and Majesty are styles not titles) they are ranked by their status as a reigning monarch or by closeness to their respective monarch. Caroline's new name as HRH The Princess of Hanover has in no way affected her rank or status except to swell her head.

HM The Queen Elizabeth II, HSH The Prince of Monaco, and HIM The Emorer of Japan are all equal under the terms of international protocal. They are ranked by years on the throne which means right now Prince Rainier is the highest ranking monarch in the world. If all the monarchs were at a UN summit (just for example) the seating would be Rainier, Elizabeth, ect....

Caroline's status is equal to that of all the other children of a monarch (excepting the heir's). Her husband is in the same position as Rear Admiral Laurence is in the UK.

Princess Grace always curtseyed to Queens/kings/emporers, ect.......however this was NEVER ever necessary as she was of equal rank.

I would just also add that Andrea takes part in the same number of events that he has taken part in as a child roughly no more or less. He is just more visible and sought after now.
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2004, 07:16 PM
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THANK YOU&#33;&#33;&#33; That was so interesting. I would have never known about the ranking of monarchs&#33; The fact that Ranier is the highest ranking monarch is very interesting.

I had figured as much about the &#39;Hanover&#39; title, but had never asked. Thank you for the great information&#33;
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2005, 08:52 AM
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Future of Monaco

Monaco broods future after Rainier's reign

By Elizabeth Bryant
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Monaco, Monaco, Dec. 16 (UPI) -- In a cliff-top castle overlooking the Mediterranean ocean, Europe's oldest and longest-living monarch is failing, his days -- so local gossip has it -- numbered.

For over half a century, Prince Rainier of Monaco has presided over the extraordinary transformation of a mile-square outcrop of sheep-nibbled land into one of the world's most glamorous and moneyed hubs.

Today, as Monaco contemplates life after its 81-year-old monarch, it is trying to reposition itself to remain on top of an increasingly competitive and interconnected Europe -- and to shake its reputation as a mecca for tax evaders and crooks.

Monaco's government argues the principality has tightened its fiscal policies, and diversified its economy. Today, officials suggest, this sun-washed principality offers the face of 21st-century Europe.

But skeptics wonder about the fate of Monaco and of handful of other very small European countries -- medieval-era throwbacks with few obvious attractions beyond their allure as tax havens.

"It's a very interesting case in Europe that these principalities have managed to survive," said Daniel Keohane, senior analyst at the London-based Center for European Reform. "They're tiny places that don't have many natural resources. And with the pressure to reform themselves, the pressure will also be on them to survive economically."

It's hard to imagine hard times hitting Monaco. For 700 years, this Riviera city state has been ruled by the Grimaldi family, with periodic intervention from Paris.

From its yacht-choked port to its hilly, bougainvillea-dotted borders, modern Monaco is a study in concrete and human ingenuity. Just about every square inch is filled with expensive boutiques and high-rise apartments. Bulldozers bite into the earth, creating more for sale at breathtaking prices.

A two-bedroom penthouse overlooking the port costs more than $2.5 million. A villa advertised at another realtor goes for nearly $9 million -- or a mere $16,000 in monthly rent.

"Prices remain extremely high," said one real estate agent, Benjamin Clement. "If nothing else, I'd expect they might increase a bit."

Those snapping up the property include the movie stars, sports celebrities and business magnates who account for more than three-quarters of Monaco's 32,000 residents -- and who flocked to Monaco during the golden days of Rainier's movie-star wife, Princess Grace.

But in recent years Monaco has attracted more unsavory characters, including reputed members of Italian and eastern European mafia.

In 2000, the French government issued a pair of tough reports, accusing Monaco of tolerating money laundering and other financial improprieties. Then in 2002, a French judge published a juicy book about money laundering and a co-opted judiciary during his 1990s years as magistrate in Monaco.

Each charge has been angrily rebutted by the principality, which has suggested France -- which supplies Monaco's top ministers, judges and police officers -- was being disingenuous.

But the news coming from Monaco these days is more promising. Although it remains on an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development short list of "non-cooperating tax havens," it was removed in 2001 from a gray list of money laundering states compiled by the Paris-based Financial Action Task Force.

"Today there is the minimum amount of satisfactory protection, but they're far from being the best," said Andre Jacquemet, a member of the French branch of Transparency International, a watchdog group.

Jacquemet believes Monaco could do more to clean up its image. "But viewed from the outside, you could say that all the right elements to fight against money laundering exist in Monaco."

Nonetheless, Monaco has quietly expelled a number of questionable residents in recent years, most of them from Eastern and Southern Europe. And earlier this month, the principality -- along with tiny Liechtenstein and San Marino -- signed an agreement with the European Union to begin levying taxes on business profits.

"I think Monaco's starting to play another card," said author Frederic Laurent, who published a thick book on the principality last year. "Not as a place known for its money laundering, but as a place known for being clean financially -- for being a place of excellence."

In an interview in his office near Rainier's castle, State Minister Patrick Leclercq talked about the principality's economic shift from traditional engines of tourism, banking and gaming to commerce, which accounted for 42 percent of Monaco's private-sector earnings last year.

And he pointed to a pair of new agreements with France to grant Monaco greater political independence -- including the possibility of appointing native Monegasques to head the government for the first time. Within an expanding EU that Monaco does not belong to, he suggested, the tiny principality can compete and thrive.

"Of course, Monaco can survive in the future," Leclercq said. "Look at what happened to Yugoslavia, or at decentralization in France. Look at the autonomous regions in Spain, which are getting more and more powers."

But in the short-term, Leclercq said, there is no question of Monaco changing its tax-free resident status, which most recently drew millionaire Mohamed al-Fayed.

Monaco's future is a much-discussed subject among ordinary Monegasques as well, and not just for economic reasons. Rainier has been in and out of the hospital for apparent respiratory ailments. Rumors -- denied by the royal palace -- have been flying of his imminent death.

The romantic troubles of Rainier's popular daughters, Princesses Caroline and Stephanie, are regular fodder in the tabloid press, much to local dismay. And Prince Albert, Rainier's retiring, 46-year-old son and heir apparent, remains an unknown quantity.

In Monaco's balmy December air, an uneasy fin-de-reign aura lingers.

"We need something to renew the principality," said one young Monegasque businessman. "Maybe Albert will bring a fresh breath of air."

But nobody is talking about the end of the Grimaldi royal dynasty -- certainly not 60-year-old native Bernard Vatrican.

"Monaco was created by princes and foreigners. They're the ones who brought wealth to the country," said Vatrican, as he sat in his apartment overlooking Monaco's twinkling bay one recent evening. "If we have real democracy here, it would be the end of Monaco."
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  #34  
Old 02-06-2005, 06:38 AM
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a article in swedish about the future of Monaco´s Princely family.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...599443,00.html
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  #35  
Old 02-06-2005, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie
a article in swedish about the future of Monaco´s Princely family.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...599443,00.html
Any chance anybody could translate the article into English, or at least give a synopsis of what the article said for those of us who don't speak the Swedish language? It would be greatly appreciated.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2005, 02:31 PM
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Andrea Grimaldi

Just wondering. If/When Andrea Casiraghi assumes the throne in Monaco, will he change his name to Grimaldi? Can/Will Prince Albert elevate his nieces and nephews to Serene Highnesses (the Casiraghis, at least) when he takes the throne?
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  #37  
Old 03-31-2005, 02:51 PM
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I thinks that the Prince Albert must adopt Andrea for he can acess to te throne ! so he must change his name !
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2005, 03:31 PM
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I don´t know, but maybe he does.
I don´t think that Andrea´s heir will has the surname Casiraghi, ´couse the family is Grimaldi, but maybe Andrea use the Casiraghi-Grimaldi while is he reing, but his son will be a Grimaldi., that´s i think.
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2005, 05:35 PM
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Andrea is in line after his mother unless Albert marriages and has a legitimate heir. If Albert does it pushes them back with each child Albert has. It use to be that it could only be a Grimaldi to rule why Rainier's father took the name on marriage. And Albert doesn't have to adopt him. Its said in the 2002 changes to the Constitution.
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2005, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piewi
I don´t know, but maybe he does.
I don´t think that Andrea´s heir will has the surname Casiraghi, ´couse the family is Grimaldi, but maybe Andrea use the Casiraghi-Grimaldi while is he reing, but his son will be a Grimaldi., that´s i think.
I like the sound of Casiraghi-Grimaldi ^___^ Do you think Andrea's children would also take this surname or just Grimaldi or just Casiraghi???
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