Monaco's succession issues

[RachelD]

Ohhhhh.....ok. Thanks Coco for explaining!

[anag]

Originally Posted by coco

No I think he is next after Caroline. Then comes Pierre and then Chalotte, Alexandra, Stephanie, Louis, Pauline. I'm not quite sure about Camille, I think she isn't in the line because her father wasn't married with Stephanie . . . . I think it's the same system in Great Britain.

I don't believe that Stephanie was married when she had Louis (so he wasn't in line), but then she later married Daniel and then Louis became legitimate.

Ani

[coco]

Originally Posted by anag

I don't believe that Stephanie was married when she had Louis (so he wasn't in line), but then she later married Daniel and then Louis became legitimate.

Ani

oh, you're right, she married Daniel later. But that means that if she married Camille's father, Camille would become legitimate . . . that's strange.

[anag]

Originally Posted by coco

oh, you're right, she married Daniel later. But that means that if she married Camille's father, Camille would become legitimate . . . that's strange.

I know, I thought it was strange too. But he is 7th in line despite his illegitimacy at birth. I don't know, it was probably a clause in the old constitution (which allowed illegitimate children to take the throne), but then Prince Rainier changed it in 2003 (I believe to prevent Alex, and I guess Jazmin, from ruling).

Ani

[Grace]

I've just seen the tv show about the Principality Albert and Stephanie took part in at the beginning of June, and talking about the Casiraghi Albert said they are studying abroad, one in Milan, one in Paris and one in New York, human studies, law and economy, and he added "ils se prepairent", they are training, getting ready...I don't know if he meant for ruling, but it certainly sounded like that.

[hibou]

Originally Posted by Grace

I've just seen the tv show about the Principality Albert and Stephanie took part in at the beginning of June, and talking about the Casiraghi Albert said they are studying abroad, one in Milan, one in Paris and one in New York, human studies, law and economy, and he added "ils se prepairent", they are training, getting ready...I don't know if he meant for ruling, but it certainly sounded like that.

Hi Grace can you recall his phrasing before and after your quote as Albert can be very clever with his words and imply things that aren't necessarily there. If he said they are in training it would be great if you can recall what he said immediately after that because it might be there that you find his true meaning. It could be true and perhaps the reason why Caroline was not there, so she would not have to answer questions like that. I am just guessing of course. But if you can recall anything it would help us in the interpretation. Thanks!

[Grace]

Steph was talking about his kids and how she did her best to shed them from the spotlight, so Albert added Caroline is a great mom as well; the interviewer asked about her kids and whether it was true they study abroad and Albert said what we already know: Andrea in NY, Pierre in Milan and Char in Paris, then added they study humanistic studies, law and economics (without specifying who takes which subject, but they are all very close to "government studies" if you know what I mean; not like archtecture or engeneering), and closed saying that phrase "Ils se prepairent" without specifying for what: for life, for their future jobs? I found it a little ambiguous, even if he probably meant nothing by it, but I got the impression he meant for Monaco, in whatever capacity...I think after that phrase they changed subject.

[hibou]

Originally Posted by Grace

Steph was talking about his kids and how she did her best to shed them from the spotlight, so Albert added Caroline is a great mom as well; the interviewer asked about her kids and whether it was true they study abroad and Albert said what we already know: Andrea in NY, Pierre in Milan and Char in Paris, then added they study humanistic studies, law and economics (without specifying who takes which subject, but they are all very close to "government studies" if you know what I mean; not like archtecture or engeneering), and closed saying that phrase "Ils se prepairent" without specifying for what: for life, for their future jobs? I found it a little ambiguous, even if he probably meant nothing by it, but I got the impression he meant for Monaco, in whatever capacity...I think after that phrase they changed subject.

Thanks Grace, That's typical of Albert to give a vague answer. He may have ment for the good of Monaco but not necessarily in preparation to take the throne. His cousins Melanie deMassey (sp) is already employed in Monaco I can't remember exactly in what capacity. Paca would probably be able to tell us. So I think he just ment to help Monaco.

[olga101]

Originally Posted by Lakshmi

Little Alexandre is just 3 y.o. and there are already so many great plans for him. Maybe we should let him finish preschool first.

Agreed Lakshmi. And perhaps Prince Albert does have plans for Alexandre, as was said once, in some capacity when he becomes a teenager.

IMHO, it would really really be stretching it to think that child as adult would ever come into power there. There are so many others and, maybe with some possible other royal fathers of their out of wedlock children might consider changing or whatever. But for this royalty regarding that child, not likely. There's so much bad feelings, etch connected to and with him.

We can always hope time will clear that up-but hope is just that-hope.

[kimebear]

Does anyone know if it is intended that if HRH Princess Caroline ascends the throne after Albert, would her children be styled with her courtesy HRH or would they retain the legitimate HSH? I believe this was the way the Luxembourg royals elevated themselves from HSH to HRH.

[libra65]

Originally Posted by kimebear

Does anyone know if it is intended that if HRH Princess Caroline ascends the throne after Albert, would her children be styled with her courtesy HRH or would they retain the legitimate HSH? I believe this was the way the Luxembourg royals elevated themselves from HSH to HRH.

I would guess they would be HSH. Her HRH is only thru Ernst. Her older children wouldn't be in line for that, only Alexandra would.

[kimebear]

Well yes the HRH comes from Ernst, but when, and if, Caroline ascends, she will be an HRH. I think that technically, as a Sovereign Princess, she could make an argument for the princely house of Grimaldi to be royal (like her) instead of serene since her children will take their titles from her upon her ascension. My question is whether or not it matters that her HRH is a courtesy and not a legal style.

[serenissima]

The Prince of Hanover is no longer in the line of succession or something but his daughter born between him and the princess Caroline is in the line of succession to our throne because she was not baptised by the rite of the Roman Catholic Church but that of the Lutheran Church (obviously anybody who becames the English monarch must be confirmed by a valid bishop who is of the Anglican Order for the Church of England does not accept the confirmation done by the Lutheran bishops, so I understand). Am I correct ?

Then, if the Princess of Hanover becomes the Sovereign Princess of Monaco and, God forbids this but if her older children somehow died before her or decided not to succeed the Princely throne of Monaco, then, does this little princess who is of Hanover at the moment have to be received in by the Roman Catholic Church in order to become the Sovereign Princess of Monaco after her mother ?

Anyway, then, for some reason, this little princess in Monaco becomes the closest person at that time to inherit the English throne, then, what will happen ?

[NGalitzine]

Anyone who is not a Roman Catholic or marrying a Roman Catholic, and who was born of a recognized marriage, can and are in the very long list of potential successors to the British throne. That is why Princess Alexandra is in line after her older half brothers to the British throne, and her father is not. It is also the reason Peter Phillips will loose his place in the succession when he marries.

I'm not sure if the Monagasque constitution actually requires the sovereign prince to be RC, although it would likely be expected since the population is Catholic and the Grimaldi are a RC dynasty.

For Alexandra to succeed to first the Monagasque throne and then later to the British throne would require an almost global disaster as the line of succession is very long and the potential heirs live around the world.The Hannovers are not really very near the top. The little princess need not worry about changing her faith. The Norwegian royals are the first foreign family in line at the moment.

[randomlyKeira]

I was wondering what anyone thought of Pierre as possible future Sovreign Prince?

I may be paranoid, but I feel like Andrea takes it a lot less seriously than Pierre would (and does at this point), and that it appears like Albert is "grooming" Pierre more than Andrea. I know that Andrea would be first of his siblings in line to the throne, but (as we saw with Princess Charlotte) that isn't the kind of deterant that it is in other contries afraid of revolution. I mean, it seems as if Andrea has been missing from a lot of official functions lately, and that Pierre seems to tag along to Albert a lot (possibly because he is the only father he has only known though), and Albert and Caroline seem to give him a few responsibilities that I've never seen them give to Andrea... Please correct me if I am way off base...

[oxygen]

I see exactly what you're getting at, randomlyKeira.

Pierre is able to active because Milan isn't all that far from Monaco (even though Andrea could fly over if he truly wanted to). That, and he seems to more interested in the events than his older brother despite the fact that Andrea should be more visible than him.

It seems that Andrea does not want the resposiblity that may fall on his shoulders depending on which way Albert swings. And by "swings", I mean his decisions. We all know that if Albert has a legitimite son, the Casiraghis (and little Hanover) are knocked out of succesion. We also all know that if Albert should decide to not have anymore children for whatever reason, Andrea will be unceremoniously thrust into the spotlight even more so as the apparent heir after Caroline. He should be stepping up more than the little that he has been doing lately. Pierre looks to be picking up his slack and keeping his own image relatively clean making him be seen as a more favorable candidate as the future Prince of Monaco.

At the same time, Andrea today can be drastically different from Andrea tomorrow and only time will tell. Right now, we're just jumping to conclusions but hey, they're good conclusions! Discussion is good.

[libra65]

Originally Posted by oxygen

I see exactly what you're getting at, randomlyKeira.

Pierre is able to active because Milan isn't all that far from Monaco (even though Andrea could fly over if he truly wanted to). That, and he seems to more interested in the events than his older brother despite the fact that Andrea should be more visible than him.

It seems that Andrea does not want the resposiblity that may fall on his shoulders depending on which way Albert swings. And by "swings", I mean his decisions. We all know that if Albert has a legitimite son, the Casiraghis (and little Hanover) are knocked out of succesion. We also all know that if Albert should decide to not have anymore children for whatever reason, Andrea will be unceremoniously thrust into the spotlight even more so as the apparent heir after Caroline. He should be stepping up more than the little that he has been doing lately. Pierre looks to be picking up his slack and keeping his own image relatively clean making him be seen as a more favorable candidate as the future Prince of Monaco.

At the same time, Andrea today can be drastically different from Andrea tomorrow and only time will tell. Right now, we're just jumping to conclusions but hey, they're good conclusions! Discussion is good.

Albert would need to have a legitimate child not necessarily a son.

[oxygen]

^ My mistake.

[Angeline]

P-Albert can change the rules of succession just like his father did, non? If he really wished later on could not his son or daughter could have the seat or is this rule unchangeable about "legitimacy"?

[randomlyKeira]

It is possible, but probably unlikely. One of the biggest things that Albert promised upon succession was to uphold his fathers morals, and carry on what his father had done in the country, so it would be very contradictory to change a law that he made, wouldn't it?

IMHO I feel that Albert will never get married. I think he feels that Caroline and the Casiraghi's will be great for the country, and that they would make great Princes/ses. I think that the Casiraghi kids have in a way been raised to one day possibly run the country if it came to it, and after all of that Abert might not want to jepordize it by having a legitimate child that might not love the country the way he does, and the way that Caroline and the Casiraghi's do... again only opinions...

But I think that Pierre seems to take it more seriously and that he is closer to Albert and to Monaco than Andrea or Charlotte... And I think that Pierre gets a bit of a bum rap for being sort of a "play boy", but I think he's really a smart and good guy...