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  #41  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:07 PM
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Well officially they are catholics but as we know their lifestyle, divorces, scandals and rest that's rather ,,theory", not practic.
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  #42  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:31 PM
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They are as religious as the majority of europeans. The traditions are appreciated, but it does not play a major part in their lives. This is from what I see.
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  #43  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:47 PM
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That sums it up nicely, I think.

It doesn't apply just to Roman Catholics, but also to Lutherans, and other denominations - see the monarchies of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

PA, like his father before him, seeks to maintain good relations with the Holy See.
Monaco, after all, has Catholicism as its state religion.
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  #44  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:00 PM
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As many of my Catholic friends in Europe & in Canada say, they have personal faith and use the Church for weddings, christenings and funerals but at the same time they live their life like everyone else (meaning priests & Popes dont determine what they can and cannot do) and feel free to disagree with the Church on issues like birth control, divorce etc. Pretty much the same as Christians of other faiths I guess.
In short I would say the Grimaldis differ little from other Catholic Europeans.
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  #45  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:59 PM
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Rainier III used to give a very hefty sum of money to the Church every year, I don't know that Albert does the same but I don't know that he doesn't either. Grace's parents, I think her mother especially, were very religious and raised her in that way (of course all children make their mistakes) and Prince Rainier's closest friend and advisor was his priest Father Tucker. Princess Caroline was known for being the more religious one there for a while (before Ernst came along) and Princess Stephanie has said that she has great respect for the Church and the position of Monaco as a Catholic country. In their personal lives, they've not lived saintly lives but no one does, everyone gives in to temptation at times. Prince Albert has always been in-line with the Church on helping the poor, protecting the environment and on his most recent trip to the Vatican reaffirmed Monaco's committment to being pro-life (conception to natural death). I havn't heard of them going to mass every Sunday and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue with them in the raising of their children, but like many over the years they seem to be keeping on the Catholic side of the line no matter how close to the edge they might wander now & then.
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  #46  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:51 PM
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Bones, is it true that Prince Albert II banned, or refused to allow the legalization of abortion in the Principality of Monaco?

I remember reading this a couple of years ago in some French publication...was it Nice-Matin? I don't remember where.

I know that abortion is illegal in the Principality but there was some sort of movement to change that, and the Prince using his absolute authority quashed it.

Believe it or not, despite her romantic missteps Caroline considers herself a faithful daughter of the Church. One of Grace biographers said that when Caroline was a young girl she had an idealistic view of marriage that was very much in line with Church teaching, which is one of the reasons the disaster with Junot was so difficult for her.

As for Princess Stephanie, late last year Paris Vogue devoted an issue to her and the Princess discussed her religious beliefs...saying she has "great respect" for the Catholic religion...which could mean several things. She also speaks passionately of "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran and called it "my Bible" and says it's precepts are very close to Buddhism, and she uses it as a guide to her life.

I took that to mean that in order not to embarrass her beloved brother it could be that Stephanie cannot come right out and say that she doesn't really consider herself Catholic except in name...and she follows a sort of quasi-spiritual path of her own.

But that is only my interpretation, of course.
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  #47  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:00 PM
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I couldn't cite a source for it but that's what I've always understood to be the case. I know its illegal there and I can't imagine it becoming much of an issue considering how easy it would be to step across to France to have one done. I could not imagine such a thing being legal in an officially Catholic monarchy. The same is true in the other Catholic principality (Liechtenstein) where the Prince is also adamantly pro-life. If such a thing were allowed, in an officially Catholic country in which the monarch has the power to stop it, I could imagine an ugly confrontation over it.
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  #48  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
Bones, is it true that Prince Albert II banned, or refused to allow the legalization of abortion in the Principality of Monaco?

I remember reading this a couple of years ago in some French publication...was it Nice-Matin? I don't remember where.

I know that abortion is illegal in the Principality but there was some sort of movement to change that, and the Prince using his absolute authority quashed it.

Believe it or not, despite her romantic missteps Caroline considers herself a faithful daughter of the Church. One of Grace biographers said that when Caroline was a young girl she had an idealistic view of marriage that was very much in line with Church teaching, which is one of the reasons the disaster with Junot was so difficult for her.

As for Princess Stephanie, late last year Paris Vogue devoted an issue to her and the Princess discussed her religious beliefs...saying she has "great respect" for the Catholic religion...which could mean several things. She also speaks passionately of "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran and called it "my Bible" and says it's precepts are very close to Buddhism, and she uses it as a guide to her life.

I took that to mean that in order not to embarrass her beloved brother it could be that Stephanie cannot come right out and say that she doesn't really consider herself Catholic except in name...and she follows a sort of quasi-spiritual path of her own.

But that is only my interpretation, of course.
Stephanie did an whole issue for Paris match in 2006 were she touched on her religion

Quote:
C'est important de croire en quelque chose. Je suis chrétienne et baptisée. Le catholicisme est i´ci la réligion d'ètat et je la respecte profondément. Mais quelles que soit nos croyances, il ne faut pas d'exès. À notre époque, certaines se radicalisent. Croire qu'une entité supérieure incarne une unique vérité et peut régler toutes nos difficultés me semble illusoire. C'est à chacun de nous de se prendre en main.

Translation:
It is important to believe in something. I am christian and am baptized. Catholicism ish ere the religion of state and I respect it deeply. But whatever are our beliefs, one does not need a exès. At our time, some are radicalized. To believe that a higher entity incarnates a single and unique truth and can regulate all our difficulties seems to me illusory. It's up to each and everyone of us to handle it.
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  #49  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:16 PM
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Thank you so much Radker18, I remember reading that. But the article I am remembering is a different one, where she discusses The Prophet and how important that work is to her life.

This one came out late last year, exactly one year ago in fact, the Dec 2008 Paris Vogue.

I will look for it tonight and bring it tomorrow. Thanks again.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2009, 06:35 AM
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Thought I'd post some additional info I've dug up on the issue of Monaco, abortion and the Catholic Church. It seems that under the last constitution enacted by Prince Rainier III abortion was illegal under any and all circumstances and remained so until April 3 of this year when a new law was passed by the National Council which allows for abortion in cases of rape, fetal deformity/illness or if the life or health of the mother is threatened. According to the Monegasque constitution all laws originate with the Sovereign Prince so Albert presumably approved the action. Soon thereafter the Pope addressed the subject of abortion, not mentioning Monaco specifically but reasserting that abortion is, in any and every case, wrong. The Catholic scholars at the Monaco Institute were outraged by this, calling it a betrayal of Monaco's position and history as an officially Catholic state. However, that being said, they do tend to be a tad on the hysterical side over there (when Albert ascended the throne they called on him to change the Grimaldi coat of arms and outlaw gambling) and, as has been mentioned I think, when Albert II recently visited the Holy See he reaffirmed the pro-life stance of Monaco (where abortion is, after all, still mostly illegal), the Pope did not seem to address the issue and the coverage at "Rome Reports" focused on the agreement between the Prince and the Pontiff on the importance of defending human life and preserving the environment.
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  #51  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:46 AM
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I can just see the situation where the Pontiff is laying down the law to a prince with two illegitimate children.

The name "Monaco Institute" can relate to either the Royal American Institute for the Study of Monaco or the "Monaco Institute of Sports Medicine and Surgery".

Monaco has been a member of the Council of Europe since 2004. It is obliged to adhere to the Council's policy on legalised abortion.
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  #52  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:25 PM
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In this case it refers to neither. This is from the Monaco Institute plain and simple, a Catholic group focused on Monaco and her relation with the Church. They don't have a website but use Catholic.org to post their work. Obviously, people from such a group are going to think that the Church should be a higher authority than a political council; as I said, if they're going to get up-tight about gambling and soldiers in monk disguises on the coat-of-arms it should not come as a surprise that they oppose any allowances for abortion at all in an officially Catholic country.
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  #53  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:01 AM
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It all depends on how you define "state religion".
In England, the state religion is "Church of England"; here in Scotland it is the "Church of Scotland"; in Wales it is the "Church in Wales".
The Church of England is also referred to as the "established church", i.e. there is a strong legal link between Church and State.

The same applies to Monaco, but in practice, the state will always have the upper hand when the chips are down. "Realpolitik" will often overrule the diktats of the church.


A couple more links on the abortion topic:

Albert II is the Patron of the 2nd International Congress on Responsible Stem Cell Research:
The Monaco Intelligencer: A Scholarly Journal on Monegasque Law, Diplomacy & Human Rights

Safe and Legal in Ireland Abortion Rights Campaign: June 2009
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  #54  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:39 PM
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I don't get the "but in practice" part. Has anyone argued the opposite? And as long as we're posting links dealing with abortion un-related to Monaco here's my comeback:

Priests for Life

Rachel's Vineyard

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  #55  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:43 PM
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Talking Glistening Seas

The websites are fab We look forward to spending some hours browsing in them it's quite interesting.

The work that PA did in Antartica was something that should have yielded some pretty interesting info!
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  #56  
Old 12-02-2009, 06:30 PM
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#54:

Monaco and Ireland - the only two Council of Europe countries not allowing abortion.

The link "Monaco Intelligencer" is definitely Monaco-related and anti-abortion..

The Irish link shows the other side of the coin.
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  #57  
Old 12-02-2009, 10:06 PM
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The other side of what coin? What purpose is served by showing that other than prompting a debate on abortion itself? I don't see what point you're trying to make and I don't see the use of showing the "other side of the coin" in a place like this other than to simply publicize a pro-abortion blog. Your last few posts sound like you're trying to argue with me but I don't know about what. If it's abortion -forget it, I won't do it. If it's something Monaco related you're going to have to be more clear about the point you're trying to make or what info I posted you have a problem with.
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  #58  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:57 AM
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I don't have any problem with you or anything you post, quite the opposite in fact.

It was not I who started a controversy over abortion. As I remember, the original argument was about Monaco being a Catholic country.

I was brought up as a Catholic because my family was nominally Catholic.
From 1980 until now, I've been a vicar in the Church of England, working full-time and part-time.
Naturally I'm interested in how people cope with changes in churches and denominations.
In questions of faith, there will always be "another side of the coin" because faith of any kind is a highly selective business.

May I suggest that you re-read this thread?
I for one won't participate any further in this particular discussion.
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  #59  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:07 PM
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Well, I'm still somewhat at a loss as to the point of it all. Monaco is officially a Catholic country. I don't see what one side of the coin or the other has to do with it. Some are obviously upset that a Catholic country would allow abortion under any circumstances. From what I gather though Monaco is still more against abortion than not, it might not be as anti-abortion as Malta but seems more so than other countries and if abortion is a "must-have" I don't see anything more reasonable about that position that those who say it is a "must not" considering that Monaco is a microscopic country surrounded on three sides by France where abortion is available on demand.
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  #60  
Old 12-28-2009, 06:03 PM
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Monaco and building on the ocean

Why does Monaco have to spend billions to create more space on the ocean? Why cant they buy property/land from France? I dont get it. Since the two countries are so connected it makes sense that the principality would pay the money to France and enhance the living on the Riveria
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