Charlene Wittstock Current Events 3 - June 2006

[WindsorIII]

Here, here to everything just said by Paca and Creative Minds. So true!

originally posted by Laviolette
Regarding Charlene: I think people assume that PA wants an educated, mature woman (something many posters believe Charlene is lacking). I believe he wants a woman who is less powerful than him. He wants to be the superior in the relationship. He wants to be the center of attention and the brains who runs Monaco. He doesn't want a woman to overpower him, he just wants a woman by his side to look like a beautiful trophy princess and not give him any trouble or conflict.

As to the quote above here, imagine how different Monaco would look today if Prince Rainier would have chosen his wife on that basis? If PA choses CW based on that, it is not only sad for him but for all of Monaco.

I have said this before, "behind every great man, there is a great woman"
And this has been true all throughout History since the time of Ceaser.

Again, think of Kennedy, who had Jackie, Clinton, who had Hillary, Roosevelt, who had Eleanor... Rainier had Grace etc..

These men became great leaders in a great part because of the strong, educated, supporting women standing at their side, who could contribute to their success, let their men shine and make up for their weaknesses.

A relationship is two complete people. One should compliment the other.

 

[Laviollette]

...IMO what Albert really needs is someone to help him and support him and strengthen his self esteem. But that can not be done by stary eyed admiration. It needs a woman, who knows where se stands, who is strong and can help him pointing out his strength, but also helping him to recognize his weaknesses and trying to overcome them or accept them, without feeling bad about having them. To be able to this, she needs to be smart and loving. And I am sorry to say that IMO Charlene does not fit that bill.

Sure he might need the kind of woman you are talking about but time and again that's not what he chooses. I have to conclude that that's not what he wants. He may not think he has weaknesses. Also, I think flashy women who enjoy attention and fame are not necessarily strong women.

 

[Laviollette]

Here, here to everything just said by Paca and Creative Minds. So true!



As to the quote above here, imagine how different Monaco would look today if Prince Rainier would have chosen his wife on that basis? If PA choses CW based on that, it is not only sad for him but for all of Monaco.

I have said this before, "behind every great man, there is a great woman"
And this has been true all throughout History since the time of Ceaser.

Again, think of Kennedy, who had Jackie, Clinton, who had Hillary, Roosevelt, who had Eleanor... Rainier had Grace etc..

These men became great leaders in a great part because of the strong, educated, supporting women standing at their side, who could contribute to their success, let their men shine and make up for their weaknesses.

A relationship is two complete people. One should compliment the other.

Then why is Albert with Charlene? Why doesn't he dump her? Why? He could go out and find one of the women you're talking about. He could've years ago. Why hasn't he?

 

[creativemind]

Here, here to everything just said by Paca and Creative Minds. So true!



As to the quote above here, imagine how different Monaco would look today if Prince Rainier would have chosen his wife on that basis? If PA choses CW based on that, it is not only sad for him but for all of Monaco.

I have said this before, "behind every great man, there is a great woman"
And this has been true all throughout History since the time of Ceaser.

Again, think of Kennedy, who had Jackie, Clinton, who had Hillary, Roosevelt, who had Eleanor... Rainier had Grace etc..

These men became great leaders in a great part because of the strong, educated, supporting women standing at their side, who could contribute to their success, let their men shine and make up for their weaknesses.

A relationship is two complete people. One should compliment the other.

I completely agree with this. It SEEMS Prince Albert, over all these years, and the women he's dated -- including the mothers of his children (and only G_ _ knows how many others), he would have learned his lesson by now and said, hey, that kind of woman doesn't work for me - look at the outcome with that situation. It doesn't take a relationship expert to see his continual patterns. But for whatever reason he is where he is in terms of the kind of women he likes. I believe it's a reflection of how he feels inside about himself (the whole worthiness issue). Okay, I stop with my analysis, sorry I'm a licensed spiritual practitioner and work with clients outside of my regular work. He makes an interesting study. Anyways, I feel fallout from his past relationships with women and with this current one is just beginning and there's going to be much more controversy and issues -- compounded if he marries Charlene. Prince Albert's past is catching up to him now. He can forget discreet because the public and the press are onto him. Notice how no one, including his cousin John on the Kelly's side has come out to defend him like he did on Larry King after the Alexandre revelations came out. On that show even a "college friend" called in to defend him. He's been outed, so to speak. Fair or not, it comes with the territory of ruling a principality and being a billionaire. He's gonna be watched and with so much power, imo should be responsible and to some degree held accountable.

Read about the Law of Mental Equivalents --- it's a theory by Emmet Foxx (you can probably get a definition online.) It has nothing to do with karma but bascially if you walk around hateful, then you attract that into your life; if you feel inadequate and unworthy, those are the kind of people you bring into your life; if you live your life from a loving, caring, giving place, that is what you attract in your life; if you live your life sleeping around with women, hurting some by your attitude (when I'm done with you I toss you aside, thereby taking advantage); impregnating others and not being responsible when you are in a position of power, it can and will come back to you (and please, as for the pregnancy comment I'm not putting that all on Prince Albert). I think we are all bascially good at our core and I believe that to be true about Prince Albert. Although we all make our own decisions in life, I also believe our family, friends, peers and social standing etc influence our decision making and actions (called subjective consensus OR race consciousness -- has nothing to do with race like black, white etc) and Albert's been a product of his environment. BUT we are not bound by precedent. We have the power to make changes in our lives, if we are willing and cognizant. Prince Albert has had more means and time than anybody to take care of business and become responsible -- you know heal certain areas of his life, maybe things that went on that none of us have any idea about growing up as the heir apparent. I truly hope he does because imo the path he is on is not going to get any better until he has that 'ah ha' moment as we call it and gets responsible. If he marries Charlene, I think it would be a disaster, but maybe at the same time give him the kick in the seat of the pants he obviously needs.


The stuff unfolding for him actually makes me sad and I really would like to see him get it together!!!!!
I'm done, my fingers are about to fall off!

 

[WindsorIII]

originally posted by Laviolette
Then why is Albert with Charlene? Why doesn't he dump her? Why? He could go out and find one of the women you're talking about. He could've years ago. Why hasn't he?

Do you even have to ask after the developments over the last year?

PA has been the playboy who choses low class, loose women with no brains and the end result is ALWAYS the same... EMBARRASSMENT for himself and the country.

These starry eyed women like CW, NC TR, and 100 others end up using him, getting his money or their pictures in magazines and their 15 minutes of fame. The only thing now is this type of behavior is affecting the lives of little children.

You can say all you want how CW is his type... but the result will be the same: EMBARRASSMENT.

 

[Laviollette]

Do you even have to ask after the developments over the last year?

PA has been the playboy who choses low class, loose women with no brains and the end result is ALWAYS the same... EMBARRASSMENT for himself and the country.

These starry eyed women like CW, NC TR, and 100 others end up using him, getting his money or their pictures in magazines and their 15 minutes of fame. The only thing now is this type of behavior is affecting the lives of little children.

You can say all you want how CW is his type... but the result will be the same: EMBARRASSMENT.

I agree with you WindsorIII but Albert has to come to that point in his life and at 48 it doesn't seem likely. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news and the realist here but what can anybody do? The man who guarded the gate to the palace from the "type" of women Albert dates, and no doubt likes, is no longer around.

 

[Heidi P.]

Creativemind...I like your ideas.

I think Prince Albert feels like the world just won't accept him as he is, at his level of comfort. I believe he liked and felt or feels very comfortable with the women he has been with in the past and present. I believe, he sees nothing wrong with any of these women, he hides them because public opinion is always so negative. Its really kind of sad. It would be nice if he could settle down with CW, if he really likes her and they can be happy together.

 

[WindsorIII]

originally posted by Laviollete
I agree with you WindsorIII but Albert has to come to that point in his life and at 48 it doesn't seem likely. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news and the realist here but what can anybody do? The man who guarded the gate to the palace from the "type" of women Albert dates, and no doubt likes, is no longer around.

Yes, its a shame. I think its sad that PA doesn't have any good, close friends that look out for his well being. Friends that could sit him down and tell him the straight up honest to god truth.

I've read that his group of friends is just a rowdy group of middle aged men both single and divorced who encourage this behavior and use the fact that he is Prince of Monaco to attract women to themselves. Yes the same type of loose women.

And the other side, I think most other people would never be honest with him, they would just kiss his butt and tell him what he wants to hear because he is the Prince.

Paca does he have any close, respectable friends who can guide him? And if he does could you go find and talk to that person and tell him to help his friend before he makes the biggest mistake of his life. (or let me rephrase: another big mistake in his life)

 

[Laviollette]

Thanks!!!! Is the article online. I can't find it. I was looking specifically for the stuff about Charlene (I'm assuming Bruce McCormack is talking about the Jazmin angle). I just take issue with "says a source" -- who you're dog "says one observer" -- observer of what, photos in a tabloid magazine you just read. I'm being a smart-alek!!!


I'm not doubting these people exist. It's really a 50/50 split with me on this one.


In any event I'm just waiting for the official palace announcement. At the bottom, those sound like the correspondents OR stories written by correspondents that they got their information from.

People Magazine articles tend to be online a week after the issue hits the stands -- in time for the new issue to come out. Now the article itself, in my interpretation, never says Albert is in love with Charlene or that they will marry. It simply quotes Isabelle Rivere, a journalist, and various "friends" and "sources" who speculate based on their observations and what they've been told of what might happen in the future. It's very balanced I should add and it doesn't try to convince the reader of anything. Still, Albert is with Charlene and that is a plain and simple fact.

People Magazine link: http://people.aol.com/people/

 

[creativemind]

People Magazine articles tend to be online a week after the issue hits the stands -- in time for the new issue to come out. Now the article itself, in my interpretation, never says Albert is in love with Charlene or that they will marry. It simply quotes Isabelle Rivere, a journalist, and various "friends" and "sources" who speculate based on their observations and what they've been told of what might happen in the future. It's very balanced I should add and it doesn't try to convince the reader of anything. Still, Albert is with Charlene and that is a plain and simple fact.

People Magazine link: http://people.aol.com/people/

Thanks I checked the same site but my bleary eyes missed it.

On an unrelated note ---
Paca if you're around, do you mind sharing your knowledge of the words OFFICIAL COMPANION especially as a local. You defined it before (can't say who what when where how why) and I think it adds some terrific insight into things. I haven't seen it posted here. I'll just says words take on different meanings, connotations in different cultures, languages. But I'll leave Paca to define it because I don't want to butcher it!!!!!

 

[thebeatles]

Here, here to everything just said by Paca and Creative Minds. So true!



As to the quote above here, imagine how different Monaco would look today if Prince Rainier would have chosen his wife on that basis? If PA choses CW based on that, it is not only sad for him but for all of Monaco.

I have said this before, "behind every great man, there is a great woman"
And this has been true all throughout History since the time of Ceaser.

Again, think of Kennedy, who had Jackie, Clinton, who had Hillary, Roosevelt, who had Eleanor... Rainier had Grace etc..

These men became great leaders in a great part because of the strong, educated, supporting women standing at their side, who could contribute to their success, let their men shine and make up for their weaknesses.

A relationship is two complete people. One should compliment the other.

i agree, and Martin Luther King Jr. had Coretta Scott King. they all had wonderful women who supported them, and made them what they were. without them their strength wouldn't have been the same and they wouldn't have left the mark they did.

Charlene just doesn't seem to be that kind of woman.

 

[Laviollette]

i agree, and Martin Luther King Jr. had Coretta Scott King. they all had wonderful women who supported them, and made them what they were. without them their strength wouldn't have been the same and they wouldn't have left the mark they did.

Charlene just doesn't seem to be that kind of woman.

She might turn out to be that kind of woman. We really can't know. But if she doesn't turn out to be a strong and supportive woman and just a gold-digger, is that Charlene's fault or is it Albert's fault?

 

[thebeatles]

She might turn out to be that kind of woman. We really can't know. But if she doesn't turn out to be a strong and supportive woman and just a gold-digger, is that Charlene's fault or is it Albert's fault?

i think albert is old enough and has had enough experience to know who is and who isn't if she turns out to be, then he is completely at fault. she's just cahsing in, and he's letting her thus all the shame on the Grimaldi name and Monaco.

 

[paca]

Paca if you're around, do you mind sharing your knowledge of the words OFFICIAL COMPANION especially as a local. You defined it before (can't say who what when where how why) and I think it adds some terrific insight into things. I haven't seen it posted here. I'll just says words take on different meanings, connotations in different cultures, languages. But I'll leave Paca to define it because I don't want to butcher it!!!!!

I think i posted it in another thread. Did you mean this post?

In France, most people refer to their girlfrieds/boyfriends as fiancee, if they are serious about them. When you are actually living together, people tend to call them mari or femme/epouse, even if you are not married (I always correct people and now that we are seperated I have to keep telling people that I am not divorced and that we never have been married, inspite of all the modern laws, the language hasn't quite caught up with it) THe official term if you are living together is concubinage. And often the neutral form is compagne/compagnon. But this is very rarely used and then usually, when nothing particular about the feelings of the people involved is known. A reporter would probably use it to refer to a relation turned into desaster (i.e. crime of passion). You wouldn't see it used when a wedding is in the air and the couple is head over heels in love. Any native French speakers feel free to correct me, but this is how i have seen these terms used.

 

[creativemind]

I think i posted it in another thread. Did you mean this post?

In France, most people refer to their girlfrieds/boyfriends as fiancee, if they are serious about them. When you are actually living together, people tend to call them mari or femme/epouse, even if you are not married (I always correct people and now that we are seperated I have to keep telling people that I am not divorced and that we never have been married, inspite of all the modern laws, the language hasn't quite caught up with it) THe official term if you are living together is concubinage. And often the neutral form is compagne/compagnon. But this is very rarely used and then usually, when nothing particular about the feelings of the people involved is known. A reporter would probably use it to refer to a relation turned into desaster (i.e. crime of passion). You wouldn't see it used when a wedding is in the air and the couple is head over heels in love. Any native French speakers feel free to correct me, but this is how i have seen these terms used.

So, correct me if I'm wrong with Official Companion "you wouldn't see it used when a wedding is in the air and a couple is head over heels in love." I don't want to misquote you! thank you again!

 

[paca]

So, correct me if I'm wrong with Official Companion "you wouldn't see it used when a wedding is in the air and a couple is head over heels in love." I don't want to misquote you! thank you again!

Correct, I certainly wouldn't use it that way. There are lots of other ways in the french language to express that feeling.

 

[creativemind]

Correct, I certainly wouldn't use it that way. There are lots of other ways in the french language to express that feeling.

I wonder what brain trust came up with that one!!!!!

If she's a girlfriend in my opinion, just say it. Bizarre.

 

[paca]

Is there very much talk about Charlene now since her "title" has been announced? Haven't seen any recent photos of her but of course that doesn't mean anything. Are people hanging with baited breath waiting for a wedding announcement? Or, are they just thinking whatever, she's just another in a long history of women? OR None of the above!

No, there is no talk at all. At least not when you meet people on the street. The church choir is so far not preparing any songs for an upcomming wedding (Fete de Dieu is comming up and then it is off on vacation, which means the little choir boys will be off to asia, thus nothing will be prepared for anything until mid september, which is when preparation for the NH begins. So, for those who are still counting on an October wedding - I don't think so) There are no reports about her in the local paper and I am not expecting any. If she happens to show up at PAs side at an official event this is what she will be referred as. So basically nothing changed really.

 

[Mandy]

This thread has been cleaned up. I think that we've had enough verbal attacks against each other and Charlene trashing for one day. Let's move on.

Please remember that we only accept news that can be verified through links from newspapers, amagazines, books, etc.. Since personal anecdoctes from family and friends are non-verifiable, they are considered gossip and therefore cannot be posted on the forum.

Thanks for understanding.

Mandy
Monaco Moderator

 

[princess olga]

I know a lot of men (possibly the majority) do need admiration (hence the obscurre need for us to be around as helps when they do a little handy work around,)

LOL I know this is off topic but you are describing my S.O. here!

As for Charlene, I for one think we're all a bit too judgemental about her. Even if she's made mistakes, remember a person can learn from them. And also, how boring would it be if she'd be a goody two shoes like some other girlfriends of heirs to thrones? (no I'll refrain from naming names here

 

[leahteresa]

I just took a read at the People mag article on PA. My impression is that it does a very good job of supporting the theory that he is either using CW to divert attention from the illegitamate children outing OR he is really going to marry her. But, there are no real sources named and at no time does People back itself into a corner or say anything that goes beyond minor speculation.

The only thing I did read, that I had not heard, was that Nicole is really angry about Jazmin having the Grimaldi name and Alexandre not having it. I guess she does not understand that Albert did not give it to her.

The article does sort of make a big deal of PA taking CW to public events but it fails to recongize that he has done this with many women in the past. I guess I just sort of think that if it were REALLY in the air, PACA might have at least heard it in the breeze......does not mean it won't happen but I really cannot quite swallow that idea that someone like PA (and I do not know him personally) but maybe anyone in their right mind, would let a few illegitmate kids drive them down the isle...Not like he hasn't seen scandal before....

 

[sandsla]

IMO maybe she has been a ?calculated? diversion from that OTHER area of his life that just hit the headlines!

Yes this has already been said many times on the board & I responded.
So I understand the theory of her (or someone) being a diversion, But calculated? Not very well I would say, as I've said before she hurts his image more than than the news of Jazmin (or her mother) which was a past mistake - Charlene makes it appear that he is still currently making the same mistake & hasn't grown in anyway. So in my opinion it only brings attention to "that OTHER area of his life...". I can't believe this is the best his PR could do?

I think it was you that mentioned something like why on earth didn't they get some attention on his trip to the pole? That was a very good post by the way! (I probably live down the street, in the same town, same industry as you, so maybe that's why we don't understand his PR people) I really don't like beating up on CW this way, but most of us seem to be referring to her actions she chooses to make public to capitalize on whatever attention she can manage to focus on herself. We've obliged her.

And Paca, your posts (as usual) are right on target. I so agree. I so wish he would find someone who could boost his self-esteem, that belly tells it all. Loved your comment on having to watch men make a 15 min project into a two hour ordeal....so true! It must be a universal thing with men, too funny.

 

[miraglia1983]

I believe that if he would have been raised in a different society, his choice would have been different and a long time ago. Unfortunately, he has waited too long to get married, has been in a very permissive society in which he was having too much fun to want to get married. Now it is too late. He needs an heir. First of all, he should have never laid eyes on Charlene in the first place if his standards for a wife and princess were higher. She was too young and uneducated. Look at Princess María Teresa, Letizia, Mary, and Máxima. All college graduates, women with education and class. Maybe not Mette-Marit, but Prince Haakon is not 20 years older than her. Unless he polishes, educates, and trains Charlene to be Princess of Monaco, they are doomed. He should know better.

 

[lynda]

I just do not understand why people dig so deep into PA’s love life. PA has been a playboy most of his adulthood life and he is not going to change for anybody. CW is not his first “official companion” (cute title) and she will not be his last. She is just the new girlfriend at the moment. I have read so many posts/articles regarding this relationship progressing towards marriage but nothing official from PA or the palace.

CW stated in an interview, PA never promised her marriage. She regards him as her soul mate. I have not read anything “official” from him on his future plans with her. If someone has a recent article/interview of PA, please post.

Allegedly, CW is concerned of PA’s wandering behavior with women and her father advised her to give him his space and not become too clingy. If she is apprehensive of her relationship with PA, how could there possibly be a wedding in the works? IMO this shows she has no knowledge of PA’s future plans with her. Therefore, the journalists who write the speculative articles and the people who post on the threads have no clue to what is going on in this relationship.

The fact remains: they are dating and nothing more. Please be patient and see what happens.

 

[Lillia]

Do you even have to ask after the developments over the last year?

PA has been the playboy who choses low class, loose women with no brains and the end result is ALWAYS the same... EMBARRASSMENT for himself and the country.

These starry eyed women like CW, NC TR, and 100 others end up using him, getting his money or their pictures in magazines and their 15 minutes of fame. The only thing now is this type of behavior is affecting the lives of little children.

You can say all you want how CW is his type... but the result will be the same: EMBARRASSMENT.

Lest we forget, PA makes his own decisions to be involved with these women. He does it of his own free will. Nobody forces him to go out with them, in fact, I'd bet there are plenty of people around him who may have some good advice that he could rely on and they could certainly help him find someone of a different mold than what's been trotted out as well... auh-hum...the 'type' of woman he seems to be attracted to.

Admittedly, lots of women throw themselves at him, but if I remember correctly, according to the reports with CW, NC and TR he picked them up (however he decided to do it). According to the reports, he's the one who initiated those interactions. Those women were/are with him willingly, but also at his free invitation...

 

[Lillia]

I just took a read at the People mag article on PA. My impression is that it does a very good job of supporting the theory that he is either using CW to divert attention from the illegitamate children outing OR he is really going to marry her. But, there are no real sources named and at no time does People back itself into a corner or say anything that goes beyond minor speculation.

The only thing I did read, that I had not heard, was that Nicole is really angry about Jazmin having the Grimaldi name and Alexandre not having it. I guess she does not understand that Albert did not give it to her.

The article does sort of make a big deal of PA taking CW to public events but it fails to recongize that he has done this with many women in the past. I guess I just sort of think that if it were REALLY in the air, PACA might have at least heard it in the breeze......does not mean it won't happen but I really cannot quite swallow that idea that someone like PA (and I do not know him personally) but maybe anyone in their right mind, would let a few illegitmate kids drive them down the isle...Not like he hasn't seen scandal before....

<Removed off-topic comments-Mandy>

OK Back to CW Well, we'll just have to wait to see what happens with her and PA.

If Albert feels CW is the one he wants, then so be it. They can always polish her up and set her up to buy her some new clothes if they want to. If I were Charlene, I'd be trying to do that anyway because after all, MC is right in the south of France and France has Paris and Paris is a fashion capital!

I know I just couldn't bear to be so close to Paris and not shop for something fashionable!!! It's too delicious and I would just die if I couldn't go shop while there . I would absolutely have to find a scarf or a handbag, an outfit or a belt, some jewelry or shoes or something...

It'll make for interesting reading in the magazines and such to see all the spins that can be put on it no matter what happens, between Pa and his current interest Charlene, that's for sure!

 

[Lillia]

Well, I still wonder what CW does to support herself. Does the South African swim team give the swimmers a stipend?

 

[Mandy]

First, if you wish to discuss personal stories with your friends, please do so via private message.

Second, conjectures are not allowed on the forums as they are equivalent to gossip.

Please review the updated TRF Posting Rules & Guidelines to refresh your memory.

Thanks for understanding.

Mandy
Monaco Moderator

 

[pinklady1991]

If Albert feels CW is the one he wants, then so be it. They can always polish her up and set her up to buy her some new clothes if they want to. If I were Charlene, I'd be trying to do that anyway because after all, MC is right in the south of France and France has Paris and Paris is a fashion capital!

It's not what they can do on the outside that matters...it's what they can do on the inside. Anyone can look any part; it's how you behave in that part that matters. She is a pretty girl and she has a wonderful bearing and when cleaned up (i.e, no cigarettes, no tube tops), she is passable; however, my concern is for all of the charities that she will be the head of and finding her way once the wedding is over and the marriage begins should it go that route.

 

[leahteresa]

PA cannot attract a decent woman because he has really damaged his reputation so badly, and in doing so, he's hurt Monaco too. How could he not? Who wants to do business in a community that supports and is partially run by someone who is obviously more comfortable with an uneducated woman at his side? And he has a track record for it. It's not all cutting ribbons and photo ops for a princess. It takes savy to learn to control your own image, savy PA apparently does not have and cannot pass on to anyone. CW is just a really bad choice for marriage, IMO, but that does not mean they could not have a nice relationship. I'm not trying to dis Monaco, in a nutshell I just think they would be better off without CW.