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  #1421  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Friso is not breathing on his own. The vent has been breathing for him since the initial resuscitation..
This is not mentioned in the official communication....do you have a source for this information?
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  #1422  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Different brain injury levels create different circumstances and prognoses. Friso is not breathing on his own. The vent has been breathing for him since the initial resuscitation.. He's not going to be able to sit up. Permanent brain damage occurs at 5 minutes. Friso was without Oxygen for 50 minutes. This is not a 'recoverable' injury. At the time of the accident, the doctor treating Friso said he had been without oxygen for 'too long'.
I believe that one of the treating doctors in Austria went so far as to suggest that he should not have been resuscitated after that length of time.

I am so glad to see Mabel out and about again. It's a painful step, but it's a step towards living again.
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  #1423  
Old 05-28-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I believe that one of the treating doctors in Austria went so far as to suggest that he should not have been resuscitated after that length of time.

I am so glad to see Mabel out and about again. It's a painful step, but it's a step towards living again.
I completely agree. The Austrian doctors acknowledged that during a press conference.
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  #1424  
Old 05-28-2013, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post

This is not mentioned in the official communication....do you have a source for this information?
I doubt a source is needed. It's scientific. 50 minutes not breathing, that it is what it does to you. If it was otherwise and he could breathe on his own, Frisos case would have come up in all the medical journals and it wasn't the case.
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  #1425  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
This is not mentioned in the official communication....do you have a source for this information?
He has been on the vent from day 1 http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Gen...oned_by_police

'The 43 year old is lying unconscious , connected to a ventilator in intensive care in Innsbruck after he was buried beneath an avalanche on Friday"
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  #1426  
Old 05-28-2013, 08:13 PM
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I, think, sadly, if he wasn't a Prince, he wouldn't have been kept to this point. No insurance plan would do this, perhaps, I am wrong. It is terrible for all. Basically, he is dead, so no one can heal and go forward. But, that was their choice.
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  #1427  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:12 PM
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http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Gen...oned_by_police

I just tried to open this link, but couldn't find the article about Friso.
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  #1428  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
I recently saw a documentary about people in comateuze or vegative state (not P.Friso himself)
and if his condition is anything like those people, than i don't think it's a matter of 'leave him in this state' or 'keep him alive'....
These people were not 'near death'...!
They were sitting in special wheelchairs not just lying down, they were breathing on their own without a breathing tube, and were in various states of 'awareness'... some had brainactivity when the name of a loved one was mentioned etc etc...

If there's any chance of some awareness to return, like recognize the family, maybe even learn to communicate again a little bit... I'm sure every family would jump at that chance...

But what kind of "life" is that?
It would break my heart to see anyone I loved reduced to that, and I hope and pray that if something like that should happen to me, that I am not kept in that sort of half-life.

Just existing would mean nothing to me; quality of life is what's important.
In the words of Edgar Lee Masters: One should be all dead if one is half-dead, and never mock life, nor ever cheat love.
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  #1429  
Old 05-28-2013, 10:34 PM
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In the USA everyone should have a signed health directive. It tells the Doctors what you want and is a legally binding document.
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  #1430  
Old 05-28-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
I, think, sadly, if he wasn't a Prince, he wouldn't have been kept to this point. No insurance plan would do this, perhaps, I am wrong. It is terrible for all. Basically, he is dead, so no one can heal and go forward. But, that was their choice.
I don't think that they would have gone to the extraordinary means to resuscitate him if he had not been a prince, or someone famous.
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  #1431  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I don't think that they would have gone to the extraordinary means to resuscitate him if he had not been a prince, or someone famous.
Neither do I, and it's really a pity. If that were me... I would so much rather that they just have let me go.
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  #1432  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
He has been on the vent from day 1 http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Gen...oned_by_police

'The 43 year old is lying unconscious , connected to a ventilator in intensive care in Innsbruck after he was buried beneath an avalanche on Friday"
That he was on a ventilator a few days after the accident does not mean that he is now

I don't know and you don't know

Just be glad you don't have to make decisions like these about a loved ones' life
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  #1433  
Old 05-29-2013, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I believe that one of the treating doctors in Austria went so far as to suggest that he should not have been resuscitated after that length of time.
I saw the press conference on TV and German is my mother tongue. Nothing of that kind was suggested. And in Austria resuscitation is usually done for ~1 hour.
The problem with Friso was that nobody actually knew for how long he had been without oxygen under the snow. And there was hope that the cold temperature might "protect" him. Only when he saw the extense of the brain damage the doctor could come to the conclusion that Friso must have stopped breathing soon and the brain had been without oxygen for "too long".

Quote:
Lee-Z
That he was on a ventilator a few days after the accident does not mean that he is now
I don't know and you don't know
Just be glad you don't have to make decisions like these about a loved ones' life
I agree with you. The last official information was that Friso has minimal conscience. And that's all we know for sure.
I find these ongoing comments about "letting him go", "not keeping him alive" rather annoying. Just respect his family's decision (if they had to make a decision) and be glad it's not you who has to make this decision.
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  #1434  
Old 05-29-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
In the USA everyone should have a signed health directive. It tells the Doctors what you want and is a legally binding document.

I have one, of course.
But sometimes I fear it will not be enough.
One can only hope.
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  #1435  
Old 05-29-2013, 09:37 PM
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Make sure your Doctors and hospital have a copy on file. Also, make sure your family knows what it says.
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  #1436  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post

I have one, of course.
But sometimes I fear it will not be enough.
One can only hope.
Why wouldn't it be enough? I thought if u had on that was the end, nobody could go against it.
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  #1437  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
...
Just be glad you don't have to make decisions like these about a loved ones' life
Well, many of us have, and many more will have to.
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  #1438  
Old 05-30-2013, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Why wouldn't it be enough? I thought if u had on that was the end, nobody could go against it.
There are way too many circumstances where the AHD may not be applied. If you are treated by EMS they will do what they have to do irregardless as they simply may not have your wishes available. A physician does not have to follow the directive if they do not agree with it. So do not assume it will be followed. Talk it over with your physician - and hope he/she will be the treating physician when the day comes.
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  #1439  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
There are way too many circumstances where the AHD may not be applied. If you are treated by EMS they will do what they have to do irregardless as they simply may not have your wishes available. A physician does not have to follow the directive if they do not agree with it. So do not assume it will be followed. Talk it over with your physician - and hope he/she will be the treating physician when the day comes.

Yes, I've heard of cases like that; it's even worse if certain members of the family won't agree.
I've told my family my pov repeatedly, but sometimes people are reluctant to abandon all hope, even when realistically they know there's none.
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  #1440  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Yes, I've heard of cases like that; it's even worse if certain members of the family won't agree.
I've told my family my pov repeatedly, but sometimes people are reluctant to abandon all hope, even when realistically they know there's none.
I think part of the problem is that different people have different views about what is a good outcome. For some, the fact that a person who currently exists on life support in a coma may recover to the extent they can breathe on their own and be able to swallow pureed food fed to them by others, and can smile and groan at random, perhaps be able to respond to painful stimulii, but not be able to communicate otherwise and cannot recognise relatives, is a good outcome and one worth aiming for.

I am not definitely not in that camp. I consider that a person in a vegetative state has no quality of life, and I would not want to be forced to exist like that and would not condemn anyone for whom I had the responsibility to exist like that.

Of course if the person who is in the vegetative state is not on life support equipment there's nothing to turn off, so you have to rely on natural causes. So all you can do is issue a DNR direction and hope for pneumonia, so don't give permission for them to be given flu injections.
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