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  #1281  
Old 09-28-2012, 02:42 AM
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Miracles indeed happen (the case of a man who woke up after the 18 years of coma!); and Desmond Tutu, as a Christian priest, believes in them and shouldn't encourage anyone to euthanasia, is it so strange?
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  #1282  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:19 AM
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It's not strange that a bishop is against euthanasia, that's why I pointed it out since noone else had! .
As for belief in "miracles": that's a different thing, maybe it's a matter of words? It would be 1. a 'miracle' (defying logic, natural laws and experience) if e.g. a person would wake up after being declared dead, whereas 2. it would be a 'marvel' (something that makes you wonder) if a seriously ill patient recovers against all prognosis! Example one is usually left to powers greater than you and I, whereas example two actually does happen from time to other. The priests I know will stick to the 'marvel' understanding as well!
Hopefully the idea of a marvel would include Prince Friso. I'm convinced that his doctors know an awful lot about his condition and maybe they're absolutely right about his prospects. However dealing with a human being with complex physiological and neurological processes, many of which are not thoroughly researched, IMO they cannot be 100 percent certain about the exact state of his condition and chances of recuperating. Maybe a spark is dormant somewhere!
Any talk of turning off the life support is much too premature in Frisos' case!

viv
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  #1283  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
No, just hysterical, nonsense. Even the, good, Bishop expounded on things that often are nothing, actually, most often are nothing, but reflex reactions. If Mabel believes this, who can blame her. Terry Schaivo's family insisted she followed them with her eyes, she was blind (autopsy) and smiled. And, if it was true, why hasn't the DRF reported these wonders. The worst part is that many push anecdotal incidents to facts.
...hysterical nonsense... There are lots of things happening with people in coma and other severe conditions that the medical field have no explanations for. Your comment shows much more ignorance that the Bishop's.
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  #1284  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
I hate to have to say this even though I wish for a marvel for
Friso:
Tutu's story looks like an attempt to get the euthanasia freaks
off Princess Mabels' back! I understand that there's an ongoing
discussion in Dutch media about the prospects of keeping the
Prince on life support! It must be awful for the Dutch RF (and by
the way: That's the main reason why I'm decidedly against
euthanasia: it's bound to pile pressure on the relatives! )
Though money should never come into the equation we all know
that unfortunately they do but, that's hardly the issue in this case.
I'd be surprised if the Dutch RF didn't pay the costs connected
with the care of Friso, because they're able to!

I'm also convinced that the press office of the Dutch RF will
communicate even the slightest improvement in Friso's general
condition, should it ever happen.
Viv
Euthanasia freaks??? What do you mean by that???
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  #1285  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:50 AM
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There is no ongoing discussion in the Dutch media about Friso and the way to handle his situation.
He got mentioned this week because it is his birthday and because of the speech of Tutu. No further attention to it was given.
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  #1286  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
Euthanasia freaks??? What do you mean by that???
I'm aiming at people who are quick to judge when it's 'pointless' to keep a person alive and that they should be entitled to be relieved of their ordeal.
It's been seven months since the accident of Prince Friso! He and his family should be given more time to see whether a healing proces is under way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
There is no ongoing discussion in the Dutch media about Friso and the way to handle his situation.
OK thanks! However I still take it as an obvious reason for Bishop Tutus comment! Or else why wouldn't the DRF comment on any improvement of Friso, one way or the other?

viv
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  #1287  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:15 PM
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Euthanasia is not removing a respirator. A respirator, and that is, if the prince is on one, is extraordinary, meaning the person is not living a machine is breathing for him. Which means he really has no viable life. Euthansia is removing food and medication or giving medication to end a suffering life. The injuries in the persons who came out of comas were quite different that what has happened to the prince.
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  #1288  
Old 09-28-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
OK thanks! However I still take it as an obvious reason for Bishop Tutus comment! Or else why wouldn't the DRF comment on any improvement of Friso, one way or the other?

viv
imo: the DRF is very private about their personnel affairs and not fond of 'the media'; i think they will only announce news about prince Friso when something significantly changes and not the small details which (imo) they consider private..
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  #1289  
Old 09-28-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
I'm aiming at people who are quick to judge when it's 'pointless' to keep a person alive and that they should be entitled to be relieved of their ordeal.
It's been seven months since the accident of Prince Friso! He and his family should be given more time to see whether a healing proces is under way!

viv
Viv, There is no healing process from brain damage. irreversable brain damage starts at 5 minutes of anoxia. Friso's inability to trigger the vent as well as being deprived of oxygen for such a prolonged period are consistant with brain death
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  #1290  
Old 09-28-2012, 06:04 PM
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Viv, There is no healing process from brain damage. irreversable brain damage starts at 5 minutes of anoxia. Friso's inability to trigger the vent as well as being deprived of oxygen for such a prolonged period are consistant with brain death
I appreciate your comment! I'm very much a lay person in this field and I had forgotten how serious his brain damage is. So you are basically saying that the family is hoping against hope?

viv
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  #1291  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
I appreciate your comment! I'm very much a lay person in this field and I had forgotten how serious his brain damage is. So you are basically saying that the family is hoping against hope?

viv
Yes. It is a very serious state. Coming back is not an option. I think, Scooter, stated it best.
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  #1292  
Old 10-06-2012, 01:57 PM
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The Belgian magazine TV Family published an article on Prince Friso. The cover of the magazine was: 'To pull the plug or not'. The article says that the Queen and Mabel had different opinions about the matter. etc.

Now the author of the article is supposed to be Mario Danneels (who previously wrote a biography on Queen Paola). Only he says that the magazine changed a lot of things about the article and that he didn't recognise parts of it, esp. not the part which says that HM would want to end the situation.

The situation caused some stir in the press.
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  #1293  
Old 10-06-2012, 03:17 PM
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Uless you spoke directly to HM or Mabel, how would you know what they think. Did he interview them? Or is this supposition?
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  #1294  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:02 PM
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TV Familie: Snel, pittig, en praktisch

not a serious magazine I think ...

Tutu should keep his mouth shut about private conversations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Uless you spoke directly to HM or Mabel, how would you know what they think. Did he interview them? Or is this supposition?
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  #1295  
Old 10-08-2012, 03:16 PM
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I just don't see this family playing out any decision in the media.

1. There may be notice of the prince being moved to another facility - in Britain or Netherlands -- with very little explanation other than it is more suited from his current condition.

2. Eventually at some point the palace will simply announce his passing from injuries sustained in the accident and plans for a family funeral. There might be some media notice of family members traveling to the facility. But much will probable be under the media's radar.
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  #1296  
Old 10-08-2012, 03:57 PM
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I agree, I thik you are right. There will be not hoopala in magazines or newspapers. It will be a quiet, dignified, decision.
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  #1297  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:09 AM
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Prince Friso officially isn't the CFO of URENCO anymore. The company has released a statement that they will be looking for a new CFO.

NOS Nieuws - Officieel ontslag Friso bij Urenco

---

And on a different note: NRC reporter Jannetje Koelewijn, who 'overheard' a discussion by Friso's doctor (Prof. Claudius Thomé) and published it in the newspaper NRC Handelsblad, has decided to leave the newspaper.

According to Koelewijn, the relationship with chief editor Peter Vandermeersch has been strained ever since. Her partner, the neuro surgeon Kees Tulleken still has to awnser to a medical disciplinary court. The procedure against him was started in June but it is not known when the court will announce a decision.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2694/...werkbaar.dhtml
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  #1298  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:52 AM
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The URENCO announcement is not surprising. The company could not be expected to continue indefinitely without a CFO.
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  #1299  
Old 10-14-2012, 01:16 AM
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I'm not going to question the state of Prince Friso, and the cases are
not identical.. However right now we're having a 'headlines case' in Denmark, about Carina, a 20- year old girl who was terribly injured in a traffic accident and considered brain dead (MR scan). Because of her state, her parents were asked to consider that her vital organs could
be donated to patients in need, and they reluctantly agreed considering the prognosis, but also experiencing a 'mild pressure' from the doctor in charge.

The procedures for organ donation were initiated, but what happened
was that Carina continued to breathe without life support and eventually woke up!
She is now in rehab, hoping to be able to finish her graduating exams.

The public service DR TV ran a documentary on Carinas case the other day after ignoring pleas from the hospital not to.

Carinas parents are livid, intending to sue the doctor in charge of their daugthers case.

The relevant doctor has apparently been advised to go below the radar for a while

Organ donors are leaving the registry in bundles...

I don't know whether we've got the whole truth and nothing .. however it's stories like Carinas' which keep people hoping in those awful comatose cases.

viv
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  #1300  
Old 10-14-2012, 02:07 AM
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It is all just so sad but it happens all the time and this situation is not uncommon, he is really lucky to be well cared for and I have to say not all the pt's I have observed are so fortunate it may not be the truth people want to hear but it is a fact.
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