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  #601  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:51 AM
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I was dismayed at such terrible news. He's young. It's sad but true: everybody's life is hanging by a thread. My heart goes out to the Dutch Royal Family and the people of the NL.
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  #602  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
were does frisco and mabel live with the girls?
They live in London
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  #603  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
They live in London. It remains to be seen where they will take Friso, UK or Netherlands. Mabel might return home in order to have relatives around her. The girls will attend international schools anyway, in either country.

crm2317 - I think those pictures can be posted, they are heartbreaking but the family is a public family, they are fully aware of this, in good times and in bad times, and they partly grief in public. They could use other entrances but chose not to. The children are not around them.

The doctors look heartbroken too. And all because of not wearing the right equipment!!!, so terrible.

PPE Agency Hospital
What do you mean wrong equipment?
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  #604  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:55 AM
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I haven't words enough to explain how much I am sorry! It breaks my heart see the pain on the faces of Prince Friso's relatives. Most of all the Queen, that I consider as strong woman with always a big smile present on her face, like during the latest State Visit. I can't even imagine how difficult is this moment for her. And of course I think about the sorrow of Mabel,his brothers and all his family. May God be with all of them,expecially with his daughters to face this awful moment.
My thoughts and prayers are with Friso and all the family
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  #605  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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Such sad news. Like many I had hoped for the best because you do hear "miracle" stories about people with brain injuries but 50 minutes without oxygen is a different story entirely.
Such a strange juxaposition from Sweden where we are all so happy about the new baby. It reminds you just how fragile life truly is.
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  #606  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:58 AM
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There are admittedly times when death is the better option, but do we know how severe and how irreversable his braindamage is?

Doctors tend to be conservative in their estimates for recovery.
If there is a say 90 % probabillity that he will never wake up, okay, let him die.
If he does wake up and there is a say 80-90 % probablillity he'll remain totally helpless for the rest of his life, please let him die.
But what if his chances are 50-50? 40-60?

I think we should be a little careful about writing his obituary until we know more.
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  #607  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:00 PM
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My heart goes out to the DRF. This is such horrible news.

Like many others who've already commented here, my family has had to make that terrible choice of keeping a loved one (my grandfather) on life support or letting him pass peacefully. My grandparents had discussed this and my grandmother knew that my grandfather wouldn't want to live in a vegetative state (he suffered a stroke while he was in the hospital being treated for pneumonia). It didn't make it any less awful or sad to lose him, even if it was what was right for him and our family.

I pray that God gives the DRF the strength to pass through the next phase with as much grace and love as humanly possible.
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  #608  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Because as the doctor of a medical team you never give up on such a prominent patient. Just think about the consequences if there was an inquest
and the judge ruled that is should have been right not to stop but the
doctor had done it... Better to go on then to be on the safe side.

Plus there had been the "miracle of Kärnten" in 1997 which has just been made into a film that was screened in Mid January, so anybody is remembering the case. A little girl was brought into a hospital after they had found her in a lake. She was very cold (only 18 + ° C) and had had to be reanimated, but the leading heart surgeon decided to operate against all odds.He was successful and today the little girl (who had not suffered any brain damages) is a healthy teenager.

So I think they stabilized the prince as good as possible and only now that they have proof that there is brain damage they can form an opinion like:"maybe too long".

I think it would be difficult to let the machines be switched off when Friso would be in the Netherlands. If I recall correctly the very liberal laws in the Netherlands concerning "euthanasia" are not valid when it comes to a coma patient. But then I'm no expert and surely don't want to discuss this.
Prominent or not as a doctor you never give up on any patient!! You took an oath! If there is a slim chance of survival on any patient you do yor best to make sure they survive and get to see their families again.

I know that what I am about to say, will probably result in my post being removed, but what you said about the 'prominent' patient is just a horrible thing to say. An inquest on the death of any person can result in litigation if the judge decides that the doctor did not do the best in their power to save the patient. Just because Johan Friso is a prince does not mean that he should get a different treatment than any other person in the same condition.
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  #609  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:13 PM
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God, so sad news... poor family...
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  #610  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelica View Post
Prominent or not as a doctor you never give up on any patient!! You took an oath! If there is a slim chance of survival on any patient you do yor best to make sure they survive and get to see their families again.

I know that what I am about to say, will probably result in my post being removed, but what you said about the 'prominent' patient is just a horrible thing to say. An inquest on the death of any person can result in litigation if the judge decides that the doctor did not do the best in their power to save the patient. Just because Johan Friso is a prince does not mean that he should get a different treatment than any other person in the same condition.
Unfortunately it is not this simple. If doctors never gave up our hospitals around the world would be overflowing with people being on artificial support. I doubt the regular citizen would have received the post avalanche support the prince did. Not because people do not care but because at some point the efforts to restart a heart stops.

This very sad situation for the royal family will perhaps highlight the importance of a Living Will. Decide while you are alive and well how you would like to be kept alive - or not - in case of illness or accident. I for one would never want to be kept alive in a similar situation.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:22 PM
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My God! It is just horrible!
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  #612  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
There are admittedly times when death is the better option, but do we know how severe and how irreversable his braindamage is?

Doctors tend to be conservative in their estimates for recovery.
If there is a say 90 % probabillity that he will never wake up, okay, let him die.
If he does wake up and there is a say 80-90 % probablillity he'll remain totally helpless for the rest of his life, please let him die.
But what if his chances are 50-50? 40-60?

I think we should be a little careful about writing his obituary until we know more.
It is irreversible,beyond repair,recovery.No chance on ever regaining his former self in any which way,sorry.

News bulletin:

http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/
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  #613  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:33 PM
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Dear Grevinnan, Having been on a number of resuscitation teams I can assure you that a patient is a patient.The overwhelming desire of the team is too bring the patient back if at all possible and sometimes a lot of time and effort is spent doing this.You forget who the patient is and just do your best.As best as I can see his care is no different from many avalanche victims we see here in Canada.
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  #614  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:34 PM
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My heart breaks for the Dutch royal family, especially HM, Princess Mabel, and his daughters. I pray God gives them the strength to go forward.
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  #615  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:35 PM
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Such sad news. My deepest sympathies to the Royal Family and to the people of the Netherlands.
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  #616  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
My God! It is just horrible!
I can't help thinking about Mabel whose own father died when she was only nine years old. His death was the result of a speed skating accident in which he drowned. Here she is reliving all that and also knows first hand what her daughters are going through. Florian Moosbrugger also lost his father who was hiking in another part of the world. So, so sad.
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  #617  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by marlene View Post
Dear Grevinnan, Having been on a number of resuscitation teams I can assure you that a patient is a patient.The overwhelming desire of the team is too bring the patient back if at all possible and sometimes a lot of time and effort is spent doing this.You forget who the patient is and just do your best.As best as I can see his care is no different from many avalanche victims we see here in Canada.
I work with the trauma team at a major medical institution. They treat every patient the same way, including the, we find out later, criminals that are brought here due to gun shot wounds. It's part of the Hippocratic Oath, "I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism."
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  #618  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess of Durham View Post
I work with the trauma team at a major medical institution. They treat every patient the same way, including the, we find out later, criminals that are brought here due to gun shot wounds. It's part of the Hippocratic Oath, "I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism."
Indeed,a patient is a patient regardless,always!!
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  #619  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Its a terrible situation to be in. I remember my grandfather being only kept alive by machines after a stroke and the doctors advised his children to switch off as there was no hope - he was 88! Still, all of his children (incl. my father), although knowing that it was the right decision, felt guilty about it whenever the topic came up.

And Friso is a young man with two young young children - I cant imagine what must be going through their heads now!!!

Its a different thing to be in the situation or theoretically thinking about it. I guess 99% of all posters here would for themselves say that they wanted machines to be switched off instead of being kept alive without any hope of full recovery but actually doing it - eg by a relative - is a different matter, for the person who is pushing the button!
That's true because I would imagine in the back of the person's mind is that thought "what if." So sorry about your grandfather, Duke. What a horrible decision to be faced with.

It's heartbreaking news for this family.
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  #620  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_ View Post
They live in London
so the family may move back to the netherlands but this is something we will know about later
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