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  #281  
Old 02-19-2012, 08:55 AM
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German BILD reports that Friso had an operation last night in order to release pressure from the brain
Sohn von Königin Beatrix weiter in Lebensgefahr: Not-OP soll Leben von Prinz Johan Friso retten - Royals - Bild.de
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  #282  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:00 AM
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Jannetje Koelewijn doesn't seem too impressed with the criticism that she received: she writes that there ws nothing out of the ordinairy to be seen on the MRI scan that was made 24 hours after the accident.

‘Geen bijzonderheden op MRI-scan van Friso’ :: nrc.nl

The articles also says: "sources in the Universitätskliniken claim that this means that the prince was able to breath for a while when he was under the snow. Probably he got a hypotermia which caused the heart to stop which led to the breath stopping. If it would be the other way around and the patient stopped breathing first, the brain would have been swollen, which would make the chances of recovery very small.
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  #283  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
German BILD reports that Friso had an operation last night in order to release pressure from the brain
Sohn von Königin Beatrix weiter in Lebensgefahr: Not-OP soll Leben von Prinz Johan Friso retten - Royals - Bild.de
According to the 'Telegraaf' this has been officially denied (they don't say if it was the hospital or the RVD who denied it though).

Added: the Volkskrant liveblog says that the RVD commented that they 'can not confirm' the operation, which is different from the official denial of the Telegraaf.
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  #284  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:06 AM
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I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but in the US, small children are usually not allowed in a critical are unit. I think the Prince's brothers are doing the right thing by keeping the little ones occupied. As a mom myself, and a person who has waited by the side of a critically loved one, it would be a relief to know my sweeties were being cared for by someone they love.
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  #285  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelica View Post
Yes, immense pain, but to me it is slightly weird that they some of them even chose to go skiing. I mean even when there is nothing that you can do to change the situation your brother is in, you can just be there by his side. Of course hospitals only allow a very small number of people to visit a patient every time, but you can again just try to be there for the wife and the children. I mean it's your brother!!

At least they are trying to distract Friso's daughters so they don't think something is seriously wrong.

Again I just hope his condition improves soon and he makes a full recovery.
On doctors orders the amount of visits and visitors is very limited, so they can't all be sitting next to the bed for the entire day.

In the mean time it seems only logical that they go outside, staying locked up in a hotel for days with 8 young children would drive anybody nuts. Mabel can't take the children with her to the hospital, so I am sure she is happy that they are in the care of other relatives during her absences.

---

The tiroler zeitung hs a few articles on the topic too, they say that a lot of rumours are going around. But it seems untrue that an entire floor has been reserved for the patient. In the room next to the prince lies certain Mr. Muller. The hospital stresses that all patients are treated equally.
Beatrix

----

The Queen and Princess Mbel are on their way back to Lech now.
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  #286  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
German BILD reports that Friso had an operation last night in order to release pressure from the brain
Sohn von Königin Beatrix weiter in Lebensgefahr: Not-OP soll Leben von Prinz Johan Friso retten - Royals - Bild.de
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Jannetje Koelewijn doesn't seem too impressed with the criticism that she received: she writes that there ws nothing out of the ordinairy to be seen on the MRI scan that was made 24 hours after the accident.

‘Geen bijzonderheden op MRI-scan van Friso’ :: nrc.nl

The articles also says: "sources in the Universitätskliniken claim that this means that the prince was able to breath for a while when he was under the snow. Probably he got a hypotermia which caused the heart to stop which led to the breath stopping. If it would be the other way around and the patient stopped breathing first, the brain would have been swollen, which would make the chances of recovery very small.

These are positive news, I believe.

The longer he would have been able to breathe the better. And if he didn't struggle, he wouldn't have used up the available qxygene as quickly.
The problem is the pressure on his ribcage. I.e. was he even able to breathe proberly.
And the colder, the better.

The surgery (trepanering - not sure what it's called in English) is only to be expected.
According to an article I've just read, neurosurgeons say normal procedure is to start waking him up within the next couple of day. - If he remains in a coma for longer than that (this being a probably brain-related injury) it's bad!

ADDED: I understand now that the surgery did not take place.
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  #287  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:14 AM
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From my own experience, critical care units are very difficult to be around, maybe 10, 15 minutes. People are rushed in and out and somebody might be dying in the same room, very often there are only separees (divided by curtains etc, not separate rooms) - not sure if the Prince has special treatment in terms of a separate room etc.

I am sure no children would be allowed there because distressing scenes can occur, and only one or two people at a time.
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  #288  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelica View Post
Yes, immense pain, but to me it is slightly weird that they some of them even chose to go skiing. I mean even when there is nothing that you can do to change the situation your brother is in, you can just be there by his side. Of course hospitals only allow a very small number of people to visit a patient every time, but you can again just try to be there for the wife and the children. I mean it's your brother!!

At least they are trying to distract Friso's daughters so they don't think something is seriously wrong.

Again I just hope his condition improves soon and he makes a full recovery.
Wrong!

They go skiing to give the children,all 8 of them,a normal as possible wintersport holiday as they don't really all understand in full what has happened and is happening.And it is no use sitting around in the hospital especially as we all know,or most,that the hospital requested to minimize the number of visitors to the Prince,so no,they behave absolutely fantastic,and senseble...also a rare commodity in this day and age or so it often seems.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
According to the 'Telegraaf' this has been officially denied (they don't say if it was the hospital or the RVD who denied it though).

Added: the Volkskrant liveblog says that the RVD commented that they 'can not confirm' the operation, which is different from the official denial of the Telegraaf.
Giving a drain is not much of an operation so they exaggerate enormously...but hey..papers have to be filled regardless where they get their bs from...

The RVD will come with more info this afternoon,anytime really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
From my own experience, critical care units are very difficult to be around, maybe 10, 15 minutes. People are rushed in and out and somebody might be dying in the same room, very often there are only separees (divided by curtains etc, not separate rooms) - not sure if the Prince has special treatment in terms of a separate room etc.

I am sure no children would be allowed there because distressing scenes can occur, and only one or two people at a time.
They call them boxes,the Prince is in such a box,maybe a bit more privately in his case considering the visitors,but the separees you refer to are called a box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
No new bulletins this morning on the health of the Prince,as was already said and expected yesterday.His condition has not changed overnight.

What did happen,a detail but if confirmed a happy detail,is that the Prince probably does not have a fractured skull.It happens that Claudius Thomé,one of Friso's doctors spoke with dutch lady Jannetje Koelewijn who happened to be at the hospital and who's husband is a neuro-surgeon there.Jannetje Koelewijn happens to be a editor of dutch NRC paper.

According to this the Prince has not suffered other injuries or anything other then being without oxygen for 20 minutes.Resuscitation took quite a while and Friso's body temperature was 32 celsius,which in this case is "good" as with a lower temp the body uses less oxygen so that might be favorable.

Please keep Friso,Princess Mabel and Luana and Zaria,as well as Her Majesty and the entire RF in your thoughts and prayers for days to come.

The NOS site also mentions that HM Queen Noor of Jordan has send a message to Princess Mabel saying;" I think of you and pray for your whole family" .The Hashemite House of Jordan and the Dutch Royal Family are very dear and close friends.


I 'm sure we will not hear anything else but the simular we already had and that is we all.most of all the RF,will have to watch and wait untill a few days from now when a complete and proper diagnosis can be given.
The NRC piece gave a roar in egards to reactions all over the country as well as the press itself.Very un-professional was one,what Marengo mentioned,that the dutch neuro surgeon said Mabel used to be a next door neighbour kid and played with his son.....Really,these two are proof that a University degree doesn't per sé mean they're clever....they're just bla bla houghty toughty should I play golf today or should I fart first and have a sip of champaign sort of people who think higher of themselves then anybody else ever will in regard to them...
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  #289  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:49 AM
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No changes state of health. Prognosis at the end of this week.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:54 AM
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I hope this helps. I used google translation to translate in english. I'm a wife of a surgeon (but he is orthopaedic. I try to explain what may be possible (I 'm not saying this is exactly the same because it's a great complexity)


Below 35 ° C core temperature, warming the victim becomes a priority. In situations of moderate hypothermia (32-35 ° C), subjects are able to fight alone thanks to the chills and warming said to be active.
Nevertheless, it is necessary to isolate them from the cold, give them warm clothes and use blankets (fan), and infusions of fluids warm (40 ° C).
The latter measurements correspond to the techniques known as passive warming.


Below 32 ° C, passive measures described above will be implemented in patients with cardio-respiratory activity. To infusions and hot air heating, can add the inhalation of hot air. If these measures are insufficient, it will be necessary to establish so-called invasive techniques. With gastric lavage or hot washing of the abdominal cavity by hot liquids are not very old techniques used today, unlike the extracorporeal circulation of warming, especially ECMO (Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation). This is the reference technique for warming issues and deep hypothermic or those for which the non-invasive techniques have failed.

It is to temporarily replace the heart and lungs by an external machine that will "pump" the venous blood, re-oxygenate the artificially warmed and reinjected into a large artery: the aorta. This serves both heart and lung machine, but also cooler. This requires the establishment of large pipes called cannulas in the aorta and inferior vena cava (main vein) via catheterization of the vein and the femoral artery clearly perceptible at the groin. This technique helps to warm the blood and the whole body to a temperature allowing the heart to leave voluntarily.
Recently, this type of situation has presented following an avalanche at Valmeinier in Savoy. The quality of medical care in the field and in the hospital and the use of ECMO helped give life to a young man whose body temperature had fallen to 21 ° C. He was able to go home without sequelae after 9 days of hospitalization
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  #291  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:56 AM
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The RVD just announced that there are no changes to the condition of Prince Friso and a prognoses can not be expected sooner then the end of this week.That,is a bad sign.Have mercy on the Prince and our RF.

Todays communique:

http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/globale.../english/news/

The site is not updated yet except for the Dutch section,but it says what I already have put above.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:00 AM
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I'm going to church today and will say a prayer for Prince Friso. I hope that prayers were said for him and the Dutch royal family at all Dutch places of worship today. These prayers will help him and his family.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:02 AM
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I'm getting a little confused now.

What are the official hard facts regarding Prince Friso's condition?

So far from all sort of sources we have learned that:

He was buried in snow for up to 20 minutes. - Check.
He bodytemperature was reduced when he was dug out - Check.
He was unconscious when dug out and he to be resuscitated. - Check.
He is either in coma or is in artificial coma. - Which?
He knocked his head or he has a skull frature. - Correct?
He was able to breathe for an unknown length of time, while being buried. - Correct?
He underwent surgery to relieve pressure on his brain. - Correct?
The doctors cannot tell at present whether he will recover completely. Is braindead. Or may suffer from a braindamage until in a couple of days more. - Correct?
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  #294  
Old 02-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I'm going to church today and will say a prayer for Prince Friso. I hope that prayers were said for him and the Dutch royal family at all Dutch places of worship today. These prayers will help him and his family.
That is what I mentioned a few posts up,at most if not all churches,be they Roman Catholic,Protestant or any other denomination,prayers were held for a speedy recovery of the Prince and the wellbeing of Her Majesty and the Royal Family.So thank you,yes.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Thank you very much lucien for the updates .
I keep the Royal family and Prince Friso in my prayers...
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  #296  
Old 02-19-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I'm getting a little confused now.

What are the official hard facts regarding Prince Friso's condition?

So far from all sort of sources we have learned that:

He was buried in snow for up to 20 minutes. - Check.
He bodytemperature was reduced when he was dug out - Check.
He was unconscious when dug out and he to be resuscitated. - Check.
He is either in coma or is in artificial coma? - Which?
He knocked his head or he has a skull frature? - Correct?
He was able to breathe for an unknown length of time, while being buried? - Correct?
He underwent surgery to relieve pressure on his brain. - Correct?
The doctors cannot tell at present whether he will recover completely? Is braindead? Or may suffer from a braindamage for a couple of days more? - Correct?
First:check..Yes.

2nd:Check...reduced to 32 celsius.

3rd:Check,yes...and it took a while.

4th:Check..The Prince is sedated,that is the term for an artificial coma

5th Check:The Prince was wearing a helmet at the time,not known if banged his head into someting,but I've seen trees at the site

6th Check:Not known for how long he was able to breath,no,5 to 6 minutes is possible without damage,every sec over that gets dangerous,also depending of the overal physical condition at the time of the avalange.

7th: Check:No,no surgery as such,a drain to help ease the tention in his skull
(but that is not official yet)

8th:Check:True:the doctors can not say yet if,and what,damage occurred and to which extend

I can not answer your last question dear Muhler,and for the love of all I would like I could.But from the look of it,and the griefwrenched faces of HM and Princess Mabel and all the others,it is very very serious indeed.It also means they will not let the Prince regain consiousness for days to come.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:45 AM
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Thanks, Lucien.

Now we know something concrete.

Judging from the sombre expressions on the faces of the royal family, we can hope the doctors have given them a pretty pessimistic prognosis. - Simply in order not to give them too high hopes. Few doctors wants to be too optimistic.

The ones I feel for are, as always, the children. Both Prince Friso's own children, but also those of the CP-couple.
I assume they are pretty close and having a beloved uncle involved in an accident, where the outcome is uncertain and the adults are crawling up and down the walls, is traumatic.
This state of limbo is worse for children, because you can't sit down with them and explain that dad/uncle is no more or dad/uncle is alive but very ill. That's finite, something they can start to relate to. But an "I don't know" from someone they are used to having things under control, is worse.
Several days waiting is an eternity for a child.
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  #298  
Old 02-19-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
German BILD reports that Friso had an operation last night in order to release pressure from the brain
Sohn von Königin Beatrix weiter in Lebensgefahr: Not-OP soll Leben von Prinz Johan Friso retten - Royals - Bild.de
I have learned to not believe German reports and verify any news with other more reliable sources.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:30 AM
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I have learned to not believe German reports and verify any news with other more reliable sources.

So true, don`t belive anything when it comes to German reports and magazine....
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  #300  
Old 02-19-2012, 12:14 PM
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So true, don`t belive anything when it comes to German reports and magazine....
Depends on which one you chose, there are serious papers but they normally don't report on Royalty. Those who do are normally pretty unreliable. BILD on the other hand has a large readership which they use as their "reader reporters" and in Germany a lot of secrets are told to them, especially about prominent persons. But I don't think this is true for Austria, not even in the Innsbruck area which is pretty close to the German border.

But the info itself makes some sense as this is pretty much standard procedure when a patient suffers from a skull-brain trauma. We'll hear about it.

I personally applaud princes Constanijn and Willem-Alexander that they go out into the public areas with their children and nieces - it is so important now that the little ones who normally live in London and not the Netherlands get a very good feeling where their home is and that they have a secure place at the heart of their family. It's good that Mabel's sister came to Austria as well. A great show of support for the little ones.
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