Johan Friso and Mabel: Aug. 2003 - Nov. 2004

[Helena]

the queen made no comment, but as she is the head of the goverment the prime ministers opinion officially is hers......she left for Italy yesterday I believe...

[hrhcp]

Alexandria  Posted: Oct 13th, 2003 - 10:26 am

THE HAGUE, Oct. 10 — Ordinarily so meticulous that she checks everything right down to her golden carriage, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands was blindsided this week by a scandal involving her family and an organized crime figure.

Surprisingly, the queen's tour guide into the underworld turned out to be her son's fiancée, Mabel Wisse Smit, an ambitious young woman whose ties to one of the country's biggest mobsters were more extensive than she first admitted.

The queen's middle child, Prince Johan Friso, 35, admitted on Friday that he .... had been less than forthcoming about her contacts with Klaas Bruinsma, a gangster

imo this was a very BAD judgement on JF's part, and it looks to me that he knows that which is why he is taking himself out of the line of succession.

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, visibly perturbed, went on national television to announce that his cabinet would not submit the couple's marriage to Parliament for its approval, a prerequisite for succession to the throne.

Prince Johan and his fiancée had given the government, including the queen, "incomplete and inaccurate" information regarding Ms. Smit's past, Mr. Balkenende said, and "there had been a breach in trust."

.... Ms. Smit is a respected member in European diplomatic and charity circles who has dedicated herself to human rights and the spread of democracy.

But her lack of candor

One questions I have, is:
1.) how much is this turn of events going to impact on her respected status ?

As I see it, this is a bad situation for the two of them, and I wonder if they will recover?

[thissal]

This is a big tado over possibly nothing -- taking the word of a hit man!

At any rate it is 2nd nature for the Dutch Royal family to be discrete, to hide everything they can. They just got caught on this one. And I'll bet my bottom dollar Queen Beatrix knew all about whatever from the start.

JF was raised to be circumspect and secretive, as they all were. Now he's being punished for same? If you can call it punishment? I doubt either one of them give a hoot about one of his titles.

However, someone who may care a great deal is the wife of the 3rd son, Princess Laurentin (sp?). I read somewhere she is quite ambitious and it was her goal to force loss of succession rights onto both of her husband's older brothers.

[thissal]

Originally posted by Alexandria@Oct 13th, 2003 - 7:20 pm
I doubt that even Laurentien could arrange it so that Maxima's daddy would be part of a dictatorship (or at least support one) and end up meeting the heir to the Dutch throne or that Johan Friso would end up meeting Mabel who had former connections to a mobster. Nobody could have that much forsight.

It's all about what spin is put to it. A negative or a postive picture can be put onto just about anyone who isn't a nun, and even then, I've known some nuns who......................

[moby]

Mafia Row Costs Prince Friso His Right to the Throne

13 OCTOBER 2003
The Netherlands' Prince Johan Friso has effectively renounced his claim to the throne after a scandal erupted over his fiancée's reported links with a murdered mafia boss.

Mabel Wisse Smit is alleged to have had a relationship with drugs kingpin Klaas Bruinsma, who died in a gangland shooting in 1991. The 35-year-old denies she was intimately involved with the underworld boss, but admits to spending nights on his boat. As a result Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende says she and Prince Johan gave him "incomplete and incorrect" information about her past.

And the prime minister has announced he will not submit the couple's marriage to parliament for approval. This means Prince Johan will lose his right to become king when he weds Mabel on April 24 next year. He and his fiancée, who is a highly-regarded human rights campaigner, have admitted to misleading the politician.

The prince was next in line to the throne after his brother Willem-Alexander. The crown prince and his Argentine wife Maxima Zorreguieta are expecting their first child, who will be second in line, in January.

[Binny]

I agree Alexandria..

[Bellefleur]

Here, read this to know more. There's more news than Hello! Magazine in this National Post Newspaper.


http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.a...52-90F147FB221F


Prince gives up throne for love
'Mabelgate': Fiancée denies she was a gangster's lover 15 years ago

Peter Goodspeed
National Post


Saturday, October 11, 2003
ADVERTISEMENT


Prince Johan Friso of the Netherlands has decided to renounce his rights to the Dutch throne in order to marry a beautiful, blond human rights worker with a whiff of scandal in her past.

The 35-year-old Prince, who was second in line to the throne, said yesterday he would give up his right of succession because he could not win government approval for his planned marriage to Mabel Wisse Smit, a former Balkans expert with the United Nations, alleged to have had a love affair with a notorious Dutch gangster 15 years ago.

The Prince and his fiancée announced wedding plans in June and plan to marry on April 24.

Ms. Wisse Smit, a 35-year-old economics and political science graduate, has worked for several human rights groups and in 1994 established the European Action Council for Peace in the Balkans. Most recently, she was head of the Open Society Institute in Brussels, part of billionaire financier George Soros's humanitarian network.

Prince Johan Friso, a mechanical and aerospace engineer with a background in business, recently worked as a financial analyst for Goldman Sachs in London.

Under the Dutch constitution, married members of the House of Orange, the Dutch Royal Family, are eligible to ascend to the throne only if parliament has approved their wedding.

In Ms. Wisse Smit's case, she met Jan Peter Balkenende, the country's Prime Minister, for an initial interview in June and later underwent a cursory background check.

The government then announced it was prepared to introduce legislation approving the marriage.

But rumours surfaced, alleging Ms. Wisse Smit had had an affair with a notorious Dutch gangster and drug kingpin, Klaas Bruinsma.

She denied the allegations, saying she had no more than a superficial relationship with Mr. Bruinsma, whom she encountered at several sailing regattas 15 years ago, when she was a university student.

But two months later, after Dutch newspapers and television stations started to delve into her past, she issued a statement saying she had known Mr. Bruinsma for a few months, but had cut off all contact with him when she learned of "the practices he engaged in."

Mr. Bruinsma was known as the first "godfather" of Dutch organized crime and had a reputation as a ruthless and violent drug dealer. He smuggled tens of millions of dollars worth of illicit drugs into the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, France, Scandinavian countries and Britain.

He was also implicated in several gangland murders and is said to have ordered the execution of one of his bodyguards. The man was later found stuffed in a steel drum filled with cement, after having had his legs and genitals cut off while he was still alive, then being shot in the face at close range.

In 1991, Mr. Bruinsma was gunned down in a gangland shooting in Amsterdam.

As the controversy surrounding the pending royal marriage grew, a Dutch television station tracked down Charlie Da Silva, one of Mr. Bruinsma's bodyguards, who now lives in Chile.

In an interview, the bodyguard claimed Ms. Wisse Smit had been his boss's lover, saying she regularly stayed on the gangster's luxury yacht and had been with him right up until his murder in 1991.

Ms. Wisse Smit denied the allegations, but admitted to spending a few nights on the yacht as a guest. She flatly denied having been intimate with Mr. Bruinsma.

Last week, Mr. Balkenende said he was calling in the Dutch secret service, the AIVD, to conduct a second background check into Ms. Wisse Smit.

In the meantime, public opinion polls conducted by Dutch newspapers showed that 70% of the populace believed the Prince's fiancée was lying. A debate raged over the integrity of a possible future Queen.

On Thursday, some of Ms. Wisse Smith's former colleagues, including Mr. Soros and Bernard Kouchner, a former French Cabinet minister and UN envoy, came to her defence.

In an open letter to the Dutch daily newspaper, De Volkskrant, they wrote: "It is shocking that a person who has done so much for human rights in the world should be treated so badly in her own country because of a dubious accusation about an issue dating back 15 years, when she was in her early 20s.

"As friends and colleagues, we support her totally."

Some of Mr. Bruinsma's associates also rallied to her cause.

Another former bodyguard, Geurt Ross, said Mr. da Silva was "a troll" who had deliberately exaggerated the relationship between Ms. Wisse Smit and Mr. Bruinsma.

The skipper of the yacht also claimed Mr. da Silva was mistaken and "another woman" had a long-term relationship with the gangster.

Finally, Ottolien Lels, a friend of Ms. Wisse Smit, said it was her, "not Mabel," who had had a long-term sexual relationship with the underworld boss.

Yesterday, the Prince moved to end the scandal by renouncing his right to become king and saying he will go ahead with the wedding.

In a letter, the Prince apologized to the government, his mother, Queen Beatrix, the Prime Minister and anyone the couple may have disappointed or hurt.

He said he was aware of the "relevant facts and details" of his fiancée's relationship with Mr. Bruinsma and insisted she was never involved in the gangster's criminal activities or intimately involved with him.

He said the couple had resolved not to be "secretive" about the matter, but intended to release as few details as possible. In hindsight, that decision may have been "naive and unwise," he added.

The line now passes from Queen Beatrix to Crown Prince Willem Alexander and then skips Prince Johan Friso to his younger brother, Prince Constantijn.

Mr. Balkenende said he told the royal family on Thursday his government would not endorse the marriage because Ms. Wisse Smit had given "incomplete and incorrect information, which has damaged confidence" in her.

He insisted he had done everything he could to prevent the controversy from spinning out of control. "But there is no cure against deceit," he said.

"Mabelgate," as the Dutch news media call the controversy, is not the first matrimonial scandal to plague the Dutch royal family.

Last year, Crown Prince Willem-Alexander's marriage to Argentinian Maxima Zorreguieta stirred debate because the bride's father, Jorge Zorreguieta, had served in Cabinet during Argentina's military dictatorship from 1976-83.

Parliament reluctantly approved the match after it determined Mr. Zorreguieta had not been personally involved in any human rights violations during Argentina's "dirty war" against leftists.

Queen Beatrix's own marriage to German-born Claus von Amsberg was marred by protests in 1966, because the former diplomat had belonged to the Hitler Youth during the Second World War.

pgoodspeed@nationalpost.com

© Copyright 2003 National Post

[moosey60]

That's a bit presumptuous to deny Friso and Mabel the right to marry purely for a fling she had back 20 years ago. Doesn't seem right at all...well, this proves that Friso loves Mabel a lot, a lot to give up his place in the line of succession- second...wow. I hope he knows what he's doing. Does this mean that he will no longer have a HRH title? Would he just be Prince Johan Friso, or might they take his Prince title too? My god, someone needs to buy Parliament some Happy Meals.

[Fireweaver]

his title hasn't been decided. He won't lose his place in succession until the marriage takes place. He may stay a HRH, like his aunts did. However, that raises some issues because his wife(mabel) can take his rank, and become Princess, which some do not want to happen. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[thissal]

Originally posted by thissal+Sep 5th, 2003 - 9:54 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (thissal @ Sep 5th, 2003 - 9:54 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Janet@Aug 23rd, 2003 - 4:33 pm
I can't help but think Beatrix would privately be spitting feathers about this.

I doubt it. It's all in the family. Many consider Queen Beatrix's father Prince Bernhard as a main player in the #1 shady group in the world -- Bilderberg group, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Rockefellars and Rothchild's, all one and the same.

Also keep in mind that Mabel has been involved with 2 shady characters from her past, and birds of a feather flock together and all that............................there's a reason the Dutch royals are the richest and most discrete of all the royals. [/b][/quote]
I see that my followup posts in answering Julia's questions about the Bilderberg's were deleted from this thread. I wouldn't have noticed except that I was looking up a reference. I'm not surprised this topic is taboo, or is there some other method used in deciding which posts to delete?

[hrhcp]

More bad news coming out about Mabel ?
Something of relationships with a murdered politician in Bosnia - Herzegovinia ... she gets around.

[hrhcp]

thissal&nbsp; Posted: Oct 21st, 2003 - 2:39 am

... Prince Bernhard as a main player in ... Bilderberg group, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Rockefellars and Rothschild's

I heard Prince Bernhard was the driving force in getting the Bilderberg Group established. The CFR is American, I thought ? The other two have lots of money, agreed.

[Starr]

Every day I read more about this story, the messier it gets. Who knows what is going to be the outcome? Will they get married? or postpone and later breakup, ala Gustav S-W-B and that French girl.

[thissal]

Originally posted by King Christian@Oct 22nd, 2003 - 1:05 pm
I heard Prince Bernhard was the driving force in getting the Bilderberg Group established. The CFR is American, I thought ? The other two have lots of money, agreed.

Last I heard the Bilderberg steering committee is made up of about 30 Europeans and 20 Americans, but every American is/was also a member of the US based CFR. When it comes to world power, it's a small world afterall.

[hrhcp]

thissal&nbsp; Posted on Oct 22nd, 2003 - 8:42 pm
&nbsp;

Last I heard the Bilderberg steering committee is made up of about 30 Europeans and 20 Americans, but every American is/was also a member of the US based CFR. When it comes to world power, it's a small world afterall.

Yes ... and I've learned that the CFR is between 3,500 to 4,000 strong. That's like just under 0.001 % of the population of the USA.

[thissal]

Originally posted by Bubbette@Oct 23rd, 2003 - 7:42 am
The Council on Foreign Relations is a think tank .......................... It's not a secret, or a conspiracy!

I don't remember mentioning the word conspiracy. That is such a scoffgenic word, that its use is counterproductive to any real discussion. It is accurate to say the Bilderberg/CFR/Round Table discussions at the steering and advisory committee level are private and exclusive. The press are not invited.

Do you find it impossible to imagine that power likes to consolidate and maintain its control?

Knowledge is the key to power, and lack of knowledge is a lack thereof. Perhaps 1/1000 people know about the CFR's goals and 1/5000 know about the Bilderbergers. It might be safe to conclude that they don't want the common people to have a lot of knowledge about them, considering that most heads of state are/or have been included in their membership.

[hrhcp]

Bubbette&nbsp; Posted: Oct 24th, 2003 - 10:31 am

.... they're all published in papers, on their website, and in testimony before various governmental agencies and NGOs.

In support of "thissal"
may I ask of you to consider the following question, Bubbette

... and that is, if I take the position of extending your suggestion to all parts of life, do you (personally) "publish/discuss" all of your inner thoughts (and fears) ?

[thissal]

Originally posted by King Christian@Oct 24th, 2003 - 7:56 am
... and that is, if I take the position of extending your suggestion to all parts of life, do you (personally) "publish/discuss" all of your inner thoughts (and fears) ?

Thanks King Christian. You caught my meaning exactly. Just because something is kept secret doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. However, I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall sometimes........... B)