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  #81  
Old 02-09-2006, 11:06 PM
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Zonk, these people don't have a clue about genetics. One of them was whingeing on about what an awful disaster it'd be if Aiko was the heir and went to university and fell in love with and married - horrors - a blue-eyed foreigner!!!

Exactly why it wouldn't have been a problem for a male heir to do likewise was left unexplained. These dinosaurs really seem to think that heredity is purely through the male line and a woman is just an incubator or something.

I really wish there would be some sort of popular uprising against this idiocy, but I doubt there will be. If the public hasn't been clamouring for change after the Empress and then the Crown Princess ended up in mental turmoil, I don't suppose that seeing Aiko tossed onto the "reject" pile will make any more impression on them.
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  #82  
Old 02-09-2006, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Okay..I am WAY confused.
I understand from Warren's email that the line remains "pure (for lack of a better)" word if its from the male line but not so the women's line. I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but Masako and Kiko aren't not related to any of the branches of the Imperial Family...isn't that the same thing?
In the same way that Prince Christian of Denmark is of Royal blood because his father is of Royal blood.
For Japan the background of a wife is largely irrelevant, the only requirement is that the father be a blood member of the Imperial House. Thus the unbroken line of Imperial male descent which they want to preserve at all costs. It is no different to Salic Law which is still the rule in Liechtenstein, for example - the line of succession can only pass through the princes of the family.

Perhaps what we are currently witnessing is how cold and ruthless the Imperial Household Agency can be in ensuring the Imperial traditions are preserved.
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  #83  
Old 02-09-2006, 11:32 PM
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Thanks Warren...that makes sense. I don't agree with it but who I am to differ.

Elspeth I agree..the whole thing is pretty idiotic. Its a shame that to contine the line..they will do anything and everything...no matter who it hurts (Masako, Kiko, the brothers, etc). I think out of all this...I am most disappointed that the Emperor didn't speak up for his daughter in law...sure he doesn't have any REAL power, but after seeing what they did to his wife (and she produced TWO sons) you would think he would have a little sympathy for Masako. I remember when she got married...who knew that it would turn out like this! I applaud Naruhito for supporting his wife.

Again, I wish the best for Princess Kiko with a safe pregnancy and the birth of a healthy child. I just wonder if all this pressure and noise (the media attention) surrounding the pregnancy doesn't affect her. I mean...she is only six weeks pregnant...from what I undertand..that is very early and somewhat dangerous.
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  #84  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloriana
But isn't the majority of the Japanese people in favour of female succession?

I really hope that if Kiko has a boy, there will be huge protests from the people to demand that Aiko becomes heir.
The majority of the Japanese people were in favor of the female succession most probably because there wasn't a male. Princess Aiko was it. But now with the news of Princess Kiko's pregnancy and the possibility of a boy, many Japanese people might want to stick with tradition. And many Japanese people don't really care about the Imperial family because it doesn't really affect them. I don't think any teenager in Japan is losing sleep over this. I do hope the Japanese people stick up for little Aiko, who must not really understand what's going on, and understand that reform needs to take place for peace to happen.
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  #85  
Old 02-10-2006, 05:02 AM
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Japanese Princess Expects, and Many Hope (for a Boy)

By MARTIN FACKLER
Published: February 8, 2006

TOKYO, Feb. 7 — Japanese officials said Tuesday that Princess Kiko, the wife of Emperor Akihito's second son, Prince Akishino, is pregnant, raising hopes for a long-awaited male heir to one of the world's oldest hereditary monarchies and throwing into doubt imperial law revisions that would allow a female line to hold the throne.

The Imperial Household Agency said an ultrasound test had shown Princess Kiko to be about six weeks pregnant, though it was too early to know the child's sex. Kiko, 39, already has two daughters, Kako, 11, and Mako, 14. Crown Princess Masako, 42, the wife of Crown Prince Naruhito, also has a daughter, 4-year-old Princess Aiko.

The pregnancy prompted applause on the floor of Parliament, where a committee briefly halted debate to congratulate Princess Kiko. Emperor Akihito also said he was delighted at the news, according to Japanese news reports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/in...8princess.html
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  #86  
Old 02-10-2006, 05:44 AM
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But if I follow your reasoning Frederik is not of Royal blood because his father is a french aristocrat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
In the same way that Prince Christian of Denmark is of Royal blood because his father is of Royal blood.
For Japan the background of a wife is largely irrelevant, the only requirement is that the father be a blood member of the Imperial House. Thus the unbroken line of Imperial male descent which they want to preserve at all costs. It is no different to Salic Law which is still the rule in Liechtenstein, for example - the line of succession can only pass through the princes of the family.

Perhaps what we are currently witnessing is how cold and ruthless the Imperial Household Agency can be in ensuring the Imperial traditions are preserved.
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  #87  
Old 02-10-2006, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia
But if I follow your reasoning Frederik is not of Royal blood because his father is a french aristocrat.
I just used Christian-Frederik as a two-generation male-male example because it was current. :)
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  #88  
Old 02-10-2006, 10:30 AM
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I read the news on the Glittering Royal Message Board, and linked to that is the Asian Royals Message Board...

There I got a link to a newspaper stating that they had broken into the Imperial Houshold Agency and found that there was allready a statement of Princess Kiko's pregnancy in the works and they brought it out imediatly. At first I hoped they had made a mistake and had found the announcement of the pregnancy of one of their daughters. But later on I discovered the news confirmed.

I don't want to wish anybody bad things, but there's something very fishy going on there. And after reading all the anwers on the boards I see that many people think the same.

Why did Fumihito and Kiko wait that long to have a third baby? They could have started conceiving right after Aiko's birth, or even right after the birth of their youngest daughter?

I know there are still a lot of ethic problems about choosing the sex of a baby. Generally gender selection is only permitted when there's proof of gender-linked illnesses in the family. So I'm kind of wandering how the Shinto religion (the religion to which the Japanese Imperial family belongs) feels about such a thing.

I feel that the IHA has betrayed CP Masako and I fear for a relaps in her health and I'm fairly certain it will rebounce to the inter-family relationships.

The only way they can be absolutly certain it's a boy should be when it was conceived in a lab and then it could still very well go wrong. If it was conceived in a normal, natural way, chances are pretty high it could be a girl because six weeks is to early to determine the sex of the baby.

Conclusion: I'm having mixed feelings about this and I wouldn't like to be in CP Naruhito's nor CP Masako's shoes for the next couple of months.
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  #89  
Old 02-10-2006, 02:04 PM
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Congratulations to princess Kiko ^_^
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  #90  
Old 02-10-2006, 03:04 PM
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I think there is still a chance the baby is a girl Does anybody know if the test and sonagrams are 100% acurate? I also have wondered even why did they just stil with 2 girls and now have a change to get a boy just for the throne I feel like Princess Aiko is being cheated.
Wittykitty:(
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  #91  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:45 PM
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Poor Aiko and Mako and Kako - to be overlooked because they were born as the ''wrong'' sex.:( This is really infuriating to me!
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  #92  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
I think there is still a chance the baby is a girl Does anybody know if the test and sonagrams are 100% acurate? I also have wondered even why did they just stil with 2 girls and now have a change to get a boy just for the throne I feel like Princess Aiko is being cheated.:(
With every natural conception (assuming this one is), there is always 50/50 chance of a female or a male, regardless of the sex(es) of the child(ren) previously. We've always been told that conception "has no memory". It is purely independent of what happened before.

I just find the timing of her pregnancy very, very suspicious. I hope everything turns out well for Princess Kiko because this situation could have the potential for her to suffer like Crown Princess Masako.

I would have liked to see Princess Aiko as the female Emperor (Empress has a different connotation). There is still a chance that she would be; all is not lost.

I hope Princess Kiko's pregnancy progresses healthily and that she has a smooth labor. Her advanced maternal age would put her in the higher risk category, but I hope she and her child turn out well.
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  #93  
Old 02-10-2006, 05:18 PM
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Girl please

Congratulations to the Prince and Princess.

I hope it's a nice healthy baby GIRL.
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  #94  
Old 02-11-2006, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
A bit off topic, but in context... Up until the time of the Meiji Restoration the Emperor was a virtual house-prisoner of the Shogun. Nothing much has changed. In effect the Emperor and the Imperial Family appear to be firmly under the control of the dead hand of the Imperial Household Agency.

The Crown Prince seems to be a very nice person, but he has not been able to enlist the help of the Emperor in breaking the power of the IHA to protect his wife. Those of us who remember the wedding will recall the high hopes and optimisim that Masako brought when entering the Imperial House. Instead she appears to have been destroyed, and is now a shadow of her former vibrant self. A domestic tragedy played out in the shadows, with only public glimpses to give us an idea of the intense pressure Masako must have been subject to in trying to produce a male heir.
That is scary - i feel sorry for ALL the women in the Imperial Household how horrible for them to be treated or regarded as second class citizens. So sad what has happened to Masako. I think the only release for her would be divorce.

As for Princess Aiko - i hope its a girl because the IHA and Japanese government MUST reform the sucession laws!!!! If the IHA are hoping for a baby boy and that doesn't happen - what then eh? What about future generations - even if PA gives birth to a boy. This does not guarantee that say in the future something like what is happening now (with the sucession crises) will not happen again.

They really need to get into the 21st century and FAST!!!
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  #95  
Old 02-11-2006, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo
Congratulations to the Prince and Princess.

I hope it's a nice healthy baby GIRL.
LOL!!!!!!!1
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  #96  
Old 02-11-2006, 12:36 PM
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I'm just about ready to bet serious money that it won't be. The way these dinosaurs are controlling things, I'm sure they know very well it isn't a girl. The pregnancy is about at the stage (assuming we haven't been misled about how many weeks along she is) where they know the gender; since this pregnancy is fairly obviously a response to the call for a succession change, it beggars belief that anything has been left to chance.
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  #97  
Old 02-11-2006, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloriana
Poor Aiko and Mako and Kako - to be overlooked because they were born as the ''wrong'' sex.:( This is really infuriating to me!
well princesses Martha Louise, Ragnild and Astrid of Norway, Pilar, Elena and Cristina (and maybe even Leonor) of Spain, Margretha, Desiree Brigitte and Christina of Sweden etc etc had the same fate, not to many years ago. So it is not that strange. And with the IHA and all the pressure it might be fortunate for them to be overlooked
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  #98  
Old 02-11-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo
Congratulations to the Prince and Princess.
I hope it's a nice healthy baby GIRL.
As I'm scrolling down the posts I saw yours and I had to burst into laughter!
you got one perfect sense of comedic timming!

But seriously, the sad part in all of this is that Princess Kiko is going to have over her shoulders the same pressure that Princess Masako had to give birth to a boy. Every night she will go to sleep with the thought of a chauvinistic government making decisions on what her womb should have inside. Meanwhile the rest of Japan would prefer the first born to inherit the Throne, be it boy or girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody
...I just find the timing of her pregnancy very, very suspicious. I hope everything turns out well for Princess Kiko because this situation could have the potential for her to suffer like Crown Princess Masako.
You got a point there! She is in her late 30's (39?) with older kids already. Makes me think if she was used as a back up plan all along in case Masako and her daugther were to be removed in one way or another. I wonder if Kiko got some help from a fertility clinic to become pregnant again, if she has more than one (twins, triplets?) that will be give away. But the timing is very suspicious.

Still, congratulations to the expecting couple!
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  #99  
Old 02-11-2006, 09:05 PM
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those IHA people are just way toooooooooooo closed-minded!!! (But.....that's sort of what asians people think at least from the past that they prefer boys than girls....I was sort of the disappointment for my grandmother when i was born cuz i am a GIRL! --> that really sucked!) I have always hoped that i was a boy instead....cuz i would have been treated way differently!

People just sometimes cannot change their mind about this male is better than girls thing when i comes to the heir ( or heir that can continue ur branch of family name thing) The IHA people is just a bunch of ancient-minded people who are craving for a baby BoY! they are just simply "crazy" i think....

I really sincerely hope that it's a GIRL....GIRL POWERS!!!!! ^.^
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  #100  
Old 02-11-2006, 09:15 PM
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I'm glad you are not bitter anymore.
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