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  #61  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:12 AM
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I really hope it's a girl. The way the pressure has been put over Masako for she gives birth to a boy is inhuman, as is what she had to suffer after Aiko's birth. I find it revolting to announce such a news just at the moment they're debating about Aiko being future empress. Sorry but for me this pregnancy is not a natural one.
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  #62  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:42 AM
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Looking at the current situation, the timing of the pregnancy and the quiet early announcement make me think if the pregnancy was carefully been planed and is not in very natural way, I mean (probably) they made it by technology in vitro which can also choose the gender of the baby. If it has happened then no wonder the doctors should know very early about the baby's gender (perhaps even before the embryo even in it's form). Choosing Kiko and Akishino and not the crown princely couple is likely because Kiko more in healthy condition than CPs Masako's (current condition) to be able to carry many tests and pregnancy preparation. Anyway it is just my thinking...I don't know what happen the reality.
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  #63  
Old 02-09-2006, 04:39 AM
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the preference of male succession over females was put down in law in 1947, so not a very long tradition. In 1500 years Japan has had only 8 empresses, the last one Empress Gosakuramachi in 1763.

Kiko does seem to have an expresion on her face like the cat who got the canary but that might also but her unscrutinable asian serenity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Well, first of all, Congratulations to Prince Akishino and Princess Kiko! Expecting a baby is a great thing, regardless of age, and I trully hope that they will have a healthy little kid.
I was very surprised to learn about Princess Kiko's pregnancy and my first thought was 'what will happen to the succession reform now?' I am very fond of Princess Aiko and would love to see her as the Empress of Japan one day. However if Princess Kiko deliveres a boy, then I really think it would be better if he were the heir. I say this not of my personal believes, because as I said, I am very fond of Princess Aiko, but taking into consideration the traditions of Japan, which must be respected. I do think that most Japanese people would prefer a male Emperor, because that's part of the tradition and traditions still play a great role on Japanese society. And any traditions must be respected.

Anyway, putting the succession reform aside, I again wish Princess Kiko to have a healthy, lovely little kid, a boy or a girl.
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  #64  
Old 02-09-2006, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia
the preference of male succession over females was put down in law in 1947, so not a very long tradition. In 1500 years Japan has had only 8 empresses, the last one Empress Gosakuramachi in 1763.
I think the issue has more to do with male descent rather than just having an Empress. In the previous cases of reigning Empresses the line of succession must have passsed back through and then down a male line. This seems to be what the arch-traditionalists are worried about: that the "unbroken" male line of descent will come to an end with the heir of an Empress Aiko. Unless of course the IHA determines that Aiko's husband will be from one of the older collateral branches of the Imperial House. In which case, problem solved.
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  #65  
Old 02-09-2006, 06:09 AM
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sorry warren, tried but do not understand what you mean at all :p

If the daughter of the crownprince becomes empress isn't she a direct descendant of the male line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I think the issue has more to do with male descent rather than just having an Empress. In the previous cases of reigning Empresses the line of succession must have passsed back through and then down a male line. This seems to be what the arch-traditionalists are worried about: that the "unbroken" male line of descent will come to an end with the heir of an Empress Aiko. Unless of course the IHA determines that Aiko's husband will be from one of the older collateral branches of the Imperial House. In which case, problem solved.
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  #66  
Old 02-09-2006, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia
sorry warren, tried but do not understand what you mean at all :p
If the daughter of the crownprince becomes empress isn't she a direct descendant of the male line?
Yes, but the problem for the arch-traditionalists arises with Aiko's children. Their father wll not be of the Imperial line (unless there is a marriage with a male from a former Imperial branch). Thus the "unbroken" link of male descent fails. For the previous Empresses their successors appear to have come from other branches, so the Imperial male line is deemed to be intact. I hope this explains it. :)
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  #67  
Old 02-09-2006, 06:35 AM
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yes, thank you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Yes, but the problem for the arch-traditionalists arises with Aiko's children. Their father wll not be of the Imperial line (unless there is a marriage with a male from a former Imperial branch). Thus the "unbroken" link of male descent fails. For the previous Empresses their successors appear to have come from other branches, so the Imperial male line is deemed to be intact. I hope this explains it. :)
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  #68  
Old 02-09-2006, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galuhcandrakirana
Looking at the current situation, the timing of the pregnancy and the quiet early announcement make me think if the pregnancy was carefully been planed and is not in very natural way, I mean (probably) they made it by technology in vitro which can also choose the gender of the baby. If it has happened then no wonder the doctors should know very early about the baby's gender (perhaps even before the embryo even in it's form). Choosing Kiko and Akishino and not the crown princely couple is likely because Kiko more in healthy condition than CPs Masako's (current condition) to be able to carry many tests and pregnancy preparation. Anyway it is just my thinking...I don't know what happen the reality.
I'm thinking just the same.
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  #69  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galuhcandrakirana
Looking at the current situation, the timing of the pregnancy and the quiet early announcement make me think if the pregnancy was carefully been planed and is not in very natural way, I mean (probably) they made it by technology in vitro which can also choose the gender of the baby.
A bit off topic, but in context... Up until the time of the Meiji Restoration the Emperor was a virtual house-prisoner of the Shogun. Nothing much has changed. In effect the Emperor and the Imperial Family appear to be firmly under the control of the dead hand of the Imperial Household Agency.

The Crown Prince seems to be a very nice person, but he has not been able to enlist the help of the Emperor in breaking the power of the IHA to protect his wife. Those of us who remember the wedding will recall the high hopes and optimisim that Masako brought when entering the Imperial House. Instead she appears to have been destroyed, and is now a shadow of her former vibrant self. A domestic tragedy played out in the shadows, with only public glimpses to give us an idea of the intense pressure Masako must have been subject to in trying to produce a male heir.
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  #70  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galuhcandrakirana
Looking at the current situation, the timing of the pregnancy and the quiet early announcement make me think if the pregnancy was carefully been planed and is not in very natural way, I mean (probably) they made it by technology in vitro which can also choose the gender of the baby. If it has happened then no wonder the doctors should know very early about the baby's gender (perhaps even before the embryo even in it's form). Choosing Kiko and Akishino and not the crown princely couple is likely because Kiko more in healthy condition than CPs Masako's (current condition) to be able to carry many tests and pregnancy preparation. Anyway it is just my thinking...I don't know what happen the reality.
It's actually not legal for parents to choose the sex of their child and from what I read in the papers today, the press found out about Kiko's pregnancy even before the father-to-be did himself. After all she is only 6 weeks pregnant and must have only found out for herself recently.

I do agree it's a bit cruel for Masako, if Kiko does actually bear the much wanted boy for the Japanese people. After all, it seems to be flaunting further in face at her inability to produce the son and heir the Royal family and the Japanese people desires.
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  #71  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
if Kiko does actually bear the much wanted boy for the Japanese people
But isn't the majority of the Japanese people in favour of female succession?

I really hope that if Kiko has a boy, there will be huge protests from the people to demand that Aiko becomes heir.
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  #72  
Old 02-09-2006, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
But I thought an earlier report said Akishino had informed the Emperor/Empress and the Crown Princely couple. Somehow this report seems odd..not least because of the obvious: the dad didn't know before the press?!
According to Asahi news, princess Kiko felt change of condition from some weeks before, and had told several persons/imperial family that. the signs of pregnancy were checked several days ago by the examination of a doctor, and it was found to be true. that is, prince Akishino knew uncertain info, but he found the doctor's accurate diagnosis from the news first. According to jiji-press, the chief of Kunaicho said that he said that he was surprised about the news of his wife, on the regular press conference of the Kunaicho. and According to Asahi news, his friend said several years ago /I deleted my misleading text.
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  #73  
Old 02-09-2006, 01:03 PM
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Warren - do you know why there is such support for maintaining the Imperial Household Agency? It seems wrong that the current Empress had a breakdown, now Masako has had a breakdown, there are rumored to be tensions within the Imperial family over Naruhito's complaints to the press about Masako's treatment and who know's the real reason K & A decided to have a baby now, but the timing certainly raises suspicion that the IHA's pressure played a hand in it somehow. The control this agency yields stands in stark contrast to an otherwise democratic society. Why can't the Imperial Family say "enough" to the IHA?
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  #74  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:50 PM
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The IHA controls the imperial family's purse strings. Prince Charles, when complaining about government control of royal finances, has apparently said at least once that it wouldn't be healthy for the British royal family to be totally dependent on the government for money like the Japanese royal family is, but must have some independent income in order to avoid the situation of being puppets of the Household and senior civil servants.

The sad thing is that Prince Akishino has sided against his brother, and I gather so has the emperor despite what happened to his own wife because the IHA didn't think she was suitable empress material. This is why I wonder about this pregnancy - apparently the IHA said at one point that Princess Kiko should try for another child in order to get a boy, and her husband appears to be in the IHA's pocket. I hope the pregnancy is something she actually wanted.

I'm also virtually certain this is going to be a boy. By now it should be possible to determine the gender of the child; if it's a girl, the discussion about reform of the succession might as well go ahead. The sheer fact that they seem to be talking about putting it on hold means that they're probably confident that it isn't a girl.

I'm hoping public opinion will swing behind going ahead with the reform anyway. Not that public opinion will probably count for much with the dinosaurs at the IHA, but you never know.
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  #75  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kei893265
According to Asahi news, princess Kiko felt change of condition from some weeks before, and had told several persons/imperial family that. the signs of pregnancy were checked several days ago by the examination of a doctor, and it was found to be true. that is, prince Akishino knew uncertain info, but he found the doctor's accurate diagnosis from the news first. According to jiji-press, the chief of Kunaicho said that he said that he was surprised about the news of his wife, on the regular press conference of the Kunaicho. And According to Asahi news, his friend said before, "he refrained from his new child from respect for eldest brother/crown prince, but got a permit of it (recently)"
Got a permit? You mean to say, someone actually gave him permission to try for another baby? I know the IHA is supposed to control every facet of the royal family's existence, but that's downright revolting.
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  #76  
Old 02-09-2006, 04:00 PM
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Thank you for the explanation, Elspeth. For me, this whole pregnancy reeks of manipulation: of sibling manipulation, dynastic manipulation, discrediting Masako, etc. Sorry to sound so cynical to those who believe it is a "love" child -- I just see other ambitions here and I think that is a sad way to bring a child into this world.
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  #77  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Got a permit? You mean to say, someone actually gave him permission to try for another baby? I know the IHA is supposed to control every facet of the royal family's existence, but that's downright revolting.
I'm sorry if I make a mistake in translation.... there's no such meaning in expression of the original text. p.s. I deleted my misleading text.
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  #78  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:52 PM
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Okay..I am WAY confused.

I understand from Warren's email that the line remains "pure (for lack of a better)" word if its from the male line but not so the women's line. I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but Masako and Kiko aren't not related to any of the branches of the Imperial Family...isn't that the same thing?

I personally feel bad for all parties involved (the brothers and their wives, and the children of both). Its terrilbly sad that this has affected the relationship of the brothers. The kids because they are made to feel as if they aren't good enough because they are not boys, Masako because of the pressure to have a son, and Kiko because she is a pawn to the Imperial Househould. At least IMO. This is not to say that a third child is not wanted nor will he be loved but Come on. Also, I am not trying to degrade the Imperial Agency but they need to adapt with the times.

Also, what is up with some of the wording....we suspect that she is pregnant? Also, what a lot of pressure for Kiko to experience for 9 months...to deliever a healthy boy. Its like Henry VIII and his first three wives all over again and its 2006! Only a boy for the kingdom?
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  #79  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:14 PM
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Just a quirky thought....would her choice of outfit (blue) any indication to the sex of the child she's carrying?..... I mean of all the colours she cld hve chosen or the IHA cld hve chosen, it was a blue outfit she wore? hehe, like i said it's just a quirky thought - don't shoot me!

It's just disgusting how the IHA works!
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  #80  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:32 PM
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i very happy for her and i hope she will have a heathly beautiful baby
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