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  #461  
Old 09-05-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
...It made me think that this little boy will only be a show piece for the imperial family and that he could grow up to be just as miserable and sad and depressed as Masako is now. What kind of a life is that for a child?

Ultimately I feel bad for everyone involved because as the article clearly illustrates, there aren't any good or easy options. But really, I feel bad for Masako because she could've done some amazing things and we could easily be writing about the great work she is doing like the kind of praise we grant Maxima for her work with microcredit, and instead, we are talking about how gilded her life has become.
Wouldn't the new baby of Kiko and Akishino, if it turns out to be a boy, be raised like CP Naruhito was raised? He turned out just fine. I hardly think this child will have a horrible life as the future emperor of Japan. He will have two loving parents who are already raising two amazing daughters.
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  #462  
Old 09-05-2006, 09:53 AM
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I would like to think the little child will not succumb to depression like Masako and Michiko. It seems their depressions (although their circumstances were somewhat different) stemmed ultimately from marrying into the rigid system. I think if you are raised in it, it would be easier.

I completely agree with Alexandria's last statement that I feel badly for Masako also. She is such a talented woman and I do believe she is capable of really amazing things -- I am still holding out hope some kind of solution will be involved. Contrary to what has been written about her relationship with the Emperor and Empress, there are certainly indications that they are sensitive to her situation. That makes me think they will work toward her mental health recovery as they are able.
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  #463  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
...I completely agree with Alexandria's last statement that I feel badly for Masako also. She is such a talented woman and I do believe she is capable of really amazing things -- I am still holding out hope some kind of solution will be involved. Contrary to what has been written about her relationship with the Emperor and Empress, there are certainly indications that they are sensitive to her situation. That makes me think they will work toward her mental health recovery as they are able.
About Masako: She whines too much in my opinion. The fact is she willingly married into a very conservative monarchy. Her #1 duty as CPss was to bear heirs. It was not to be an ambassador and travel around the world. Now many CP's do this but as CP Mary revealed before she married CP Frederik, her first priority was to give birth to an heir. Her role as CP would develop over time but the main purpose of monarchy is continuity. It is all about the heir. Maybe that doesn't sound romantic but there it is.
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  #464  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Wouldn't the new baby of Kiko and Akishino, if it turns out to be a boy, be raised like CP Naruhito was raised? He turned out just fine. I hardly think this child will have a horrible life as the future emperor of Japan. He will have two loving parents who are already raising two amazing daughters.
Unfortunately, due to the current circumstances, I think this child won't be raised in the same manner that his uncle Naruhito was raised.

There is at present time, just one day before his arrival into the world, tremendous pressure on the outcome of his sex. As some of the articles I've read have implied, he has the whole imperial family's future on his little shoulders.

And unlike Naruhito, there is seemingly no spare on the horizon, and as such, from what I understand about the IHA, they will be more fiercely protective of this little boy than ever.

On his parents, I have no doubts about their love for this child and their parenting skills. They have indeed raised two wonderful daughters, but with a son who would one day become Emperor, I think the dynamics will change for his immediate family and for his extended family of his grandparents, uncle Naruhito, aunt Masako and cousin Aiko.
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  #465  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Unfortunately, due to the current circumstances, I think this child won't be raised in the same manner that his uncle Naruhito was raised.

There is at present time, just one day before his arrival into the world, tremendous pressure on the outcome of his sex. As some of the articles I've read have implied, he has the whole imperial family's future on his little shoulders.

And unlike Naruhito, there is seemingly no spare on the horizon, and as such, from what I understand about the IHA, they will be more fiercely protective of this little boy than ever.

On his parents, I have no doubts about their love for this child and their parenting skills. They have indeed raised two wonderful daughters, but with a son who would one day become Emperor, I think the dynamics will change for his immediate family and for his extended family of his grandparents, uncle Naruhito, aunt Masako and cousin Aiko.
Wouldn't the same pressure apply if it were Naruhito and Masako having a male heir, if that's what this child will be? Imo, the objection to this situation by many is that it is Akishino and Kiko who might be the parents of the heir and not the CP couple.
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  #466  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
About Masako: She whines too much in my opinion. The fact is she willingly married into a very conservative monarchy. Her #1 duty as CPss was to bear heirs. It was not to be an ambassador and travel around the world. Now many CP's do this but as CP Mary revealed before she married CP Frederik, her first priority was to give birth to an heir. Her role as CP would develop over time but the main purpose of monarchy is continuity. It is all about the heir. Maybe that doesn't sound romantic but there it is.
Masako whines too much...wow...thats a little harsh..but its your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.

Yes, you are correct...her position (archaic as it may sound) is to provide male heris. Although man (I am speaking in the general sense) would like to control everything...we do not. It rests with a higher power. Although I am sure the pressure of IHA is not making it easier. I wonder how we would all react to the pressure of having a male child. We (again speaking in the general sense as human beings) are not trained circus animals.
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  #467  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Wouldn't the same pressure apply if it were Naruhito and Masako having a male heir, if that's what this child will be? Imo, the objection to this situation by many is that it is Akishino and Kiko who might be the parents of the heir and not the CP couple.
I have never said that I have objections to Akishino and Kiko being parents of the future Emperor. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have acknowledged in my previous post that I think they are very good parents to their daughters and that they have done a good job with their daughters as they would with this third child, boy or girl.

If Aiko had been a boy or if after Aiko Naruhito and Masako had had a son, he would've been under similiar pressure and scrutiny as his father while he was growing up, I agree.

But in 2006, after the Crown Prince and the Crown Princess are unable to have a son after several miscarraiges and with Masko suffering from a stress-related disorder and out of commission, and with the current Emperor having three granddaughters—none of whom could succeed to the throne, and all the speculation about how this baby was conceived, I think that the media attention will be greater on this child if it is a boy and that his life will be under the thumb more than his uncle before him because he will be the only heir to the throne. This child, if it is a boy, is the last hope for an heir after his uncle, unless the Japanese government enacts policies that would allow women to succeed to the throne.
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  #468  
Old 09-05-2006, 10:42 AM
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A few quick questions:

(0) is there any official confirmation that she's only having one baby and not twins?

(1) If it turns out to be a boy, is he guaranteed to become the next-next emperor

(2) if he does become the emperor in the future, what will be the royal status/title of his parents?

(3) the IHA should arrange to have him get married at 18 and have lots of offsprings as early as possible
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  #469  
Old 09-05-2006, 11:36 AM
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I heard in TV that the Baby will come in a few hours.
Does anyone know more?
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  #470  
Old 09-05-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Masako whines too much...wow...thats a little harsh..but its your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.

Yes, you are correct...her position (archaic as it may sound) is to provide male heris. Although man (I am speaking in the general sense) would like to control everything...we do not. It rests with a higher power. Although I am sure the pressure of IHA is not making it easier. I wonder how we would all react to the pressure of having a male child. We (again speaking in the general sense as human beings) are not trained circus animals.
If Kiko has a male child then it will be over for Masako. The pressure is off so why is everyone so hostile? You're right. She and Naruhito had no control over which sex their child was born as and that's why Akishino and Kiko gave it another go; to see if they could have a male child. What's the problem? Wouldn't this make Masako's life easier or would she simply find something else to whine about?
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  #471  
Old 09-05-2006, 11:56 AM
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Do you honestly think the Masako's life is going to get easier? While I am sure she wishes for a healthy baby (be it boy or girl)..I think Masako's life will remain the same if not get worse. She might constantly have the birth of this innocent child thrown in her face....prime evidence of her failure to do her duty (as you so nicely pointed out).
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  #472  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:01 PM
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore
A few quick questions:

(0) is there any official confirmation that she's only having one baby and not twins?
Not that I know of. If it was an IVF pregnancy, multiple births are possible, but nothing's been said so far.

Quote:
(1) If it turns out to be a boy, is he guaranteed to become the next-next emperor
If Naruhito has a son, he would precede this one. I think if it's a boy, the legislation to allow females to inherit will be buried, so in the absence of any further children, he would become emperor after his uncle and father.

Quote:
(2) if he does become the emperor in the future, what will be the royal status/title of his parents?
Their title won't change, but their status will probably be much improved. I think we might well see some significant sidelining of the Naruhitos and a much higher profile for the Akishinos in the future.

Quote:
(3) the IHA should arrange to have him get married at 18 and have lots of offsprings as early as possible
Well, I'm sure there'll be pressure of that sort put on him if he really does turn out to be the only male of this generation and they don't change the succession laws. Or maybe they'll just revive the concubine tradition or something.
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  #473  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Do you honestly think the Masako's life is going to get easier? While I am sure she wishes for a healthy baby (be it boy or girl)..I think Masako's life will remain the same if not get worse. She might constantly have the birth of this innocent child thrown in her face....prime evidence of her failure to do her duty (as you so nicely pointed out).
If things get worse for CP Masako it's because she has already burned her bridges with the Imperial Family with her whining. Princess Kiko hadn't given birth to a boy either but yet she is close the the Emperor and Emperess. Why? Maybe she's just a nicer person. Maybe she is just trying to fulfill her duty. Even if she has a girl, Kiko will be appreciated for trying.
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  #474  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
About Masako: She whines too much in my opinion. The fact is she willingly married into a very conservative monarchy. Her #1 duty as CPss was to bear heirs. It was not to be an ambassador and travel around the world. Now many CP's do this but as CP Mary revealed before she married CP Frederik, her first priority was to give birth to an heir. Her role as CP would develop over time but the main purpose of monarchy is continuity. It is all about the heir. Maybe that doesn't sound romantic but there it is.
By all accounts, she didn't do it willingly, she married into the family reluctantly after being put under pressure from her family and the royal family, who were getting concerned about Naruhito's single state and his insistence that he wouldn't marry anyone else. Unfortunately, stress can be quite a good contraceptive, and nobody seemed to go out of their way to reduce the stress she was feeling. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if her life had been made a little easier early on, perhaps she wouldn't have had so much trouble producing an heir.
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  #475  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
By all accounts, she didn't do it willingly, she married into the family reluctantly after being put under pressure from her family and the royal family, who were getting concerned about Naruhito's single state and his insistence that he wouldn't marry anyone else. Unfortunately, stress can be quite a good contraceptive, and nobody seemed to go out of their way to reduce the stress she was feeling. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if her life had been made a little easier early on, perhaps she wouldn't have had so much trouble producing an heir.
I know this thread is about Kiko being pregnant...but Elspeth you hit the nail on the head!

Masako didn't want to marry Naruhito in the first place. Not because she didn't love him but because she did know what family she was marrying into. But she believed her husband, and her in-laws as well. They knew he wasn't going to marry anyone else. As far as I am concerned the emperor and the empress (especially after the treatment she received) have failed as well.....there is enough blame to go around IMO.
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  #476  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Wouldn't the same pressure apply if it were Naruhito and Masako having a male heir, if that's what this child will be? Imo, the objection to this situation by many is that it is Akishino and Kiko who might be the parents of the heir and not the CP couple.
It isn't just that it's Akishino and Kiko in particular; it's that there's a lot of political and social issues as well. The conservatives in the IHA and other part of the government are fiercely resistant to changes in the inheritance laws and are wanting things to stay more traditional as part of a wider move to redefine Japan's role in Asia. It looks as though this pregnancy is part of the whole conservative thing rather than being a happy accident, which would normally be the case for a 40-something mother whose youngest child is approaching her teens.

The other issue is that things were so bad for Masako that Naruhito felt he had to speak out in public to defend her, Akishino then turned round and criticised him in public, and now we have this pregnancy. It does have some overtones of a political power play, not just a decision to have another child because they happen to want another child.
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  #477  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
If Kiko has a male child then it will be over for Masako. The pressure is off so why is everyone so hostile? You're right. She and Naruhito had no control over which sex their child was born as and that's why Akishino and Kiko gave it another go; to see if they could have a male child. What's the problem? Wouldn't this make Masako's life easier or would she simply find something else to whine about?
She's not whining, she's ill. Please don't tell me you don't know the difference.

Are you aware of the hostility that's been whipped up against her in Japan? Bloggers and websites and articles all over the place suggesting or demanding that she commit suicide or that Naruhito divorce her or step down as crown prince, and saying that Aiko is retarded and that Masako is insane? It's all very well to say "she should just ignore it," but it isn't that easy, partly becase there seems to be a strong feeling that this hostility isn't just spontaneous but has been orchestrated to put her under enough pressure to leave the royal family either by desertion or by suicide. It's easy to start something like that, but it isn't so easy to stop it once it's been started.

One of the other royalty websites had an infestation by an anti-Masako contingent a few months back, and you should have seen the venom they were spouting. For a person who's already in fragile health and being made to feel like a failure to her family and society - something that's taken rather seriously in Japan - that sort of thing coming from her compatriots must be very damaging. The one good thing in all this mess is that her husband has stood by his pledge to support her.
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  #478  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:32 PM
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Can we pray that another little girl is going to be born tomorrow and then they will have to think again about changing the inheritance laws?
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  #479  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
She's not whining, she's ill. Please don't tell me you don't know the difference.

Are you aware of the hostility that's been whipped up against her in Japan? Bloggers and websites and articles all over the place suggesting or demanding that she commit suicide or that Naruhito divorce her or step down as crown prince, and saying that Aiko is retarded and that Masako is insane? It's all very well to say "she should just ignore it," but it isn't that easy, partly becase there seems to be a strong feeling that this hostility isn't just spontaneous but has been orchestrated to put her under enough pressure to leave the royal family either by desertion or by suicide. It's easy to start something like that, but it isn't so easy to stop it once it's been started.

One of the other royalty websites had an infestation by an anti-Masako contingent a few months back, and you should have seen the venom they were spouting. For a person who's already in fragile health and being made to feel like a failure to her family and society - something that's taken rather seriously in Japan - that sort of thing coming from her compatriots must be very damaging. The one good thing in all this mess is that her husband has stood by his pledge to support her.
I don't condone the attempt to drive Masako to suicide or leave her husband and the imperial family. I do object to the venom in this thread toward the decision by Akishino and Kiko to try for another child. No one believes it just happened by accident but so what. They are trying for an heir to end the current succession crisis in the imperial family which they are members of.

And the treatment of women as second class citizens in royal circles is not just limited to the Japanese royal family. Doesn't Great Britain (shock, horror!) have a system of male primogeniture? A politician in England recently spoke out against changing the succession rules to favor the first born child regardless of sex saying it was not necessary because the heir (Charles), his heir (William) and the spare (Harry) were all males. Aren't aristocratic women there also prohibited from inheriting the vast estates of these families?

I don't say that the British people approve of this but that is the situation there and in many monarchies right now. Why just single out Japan?
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  #480  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:57 PM
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People are singling out Japan here because this is the Japanese forum and there's a current situation that affects the succession there. If William's wife produces a girl as their firstborn, we'll be seeing similar calls in the British forum for and against a change in the current law.

The other difference is that on marriage, female Japanese royals are kicked out of the royal family altogether; Sayako Kuroda is in a very different situation from Princess Anne.

If people have a perception that the new Akishino baby was conceived to find favour with the conservatives running the IHA, they're entitled to say so. Considering the public calls by high-ranking IHA members for the Akishinos to produce another child, along with Prince Akishino's public rebuke of his brother, there's obviously a lot more going on here than just a family having a baby.
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