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  #361  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
But now, I'm worried about Princess Kikoˇs health. I don't think she must be hospitalized until 6-7 September...That's a little strange and suspicious. However, I'm not a doctor and perhaps is common to act this way with her pregnancy problem. Any doctor here to tell us about how doctors would act in this kind of cases?

Vanesa.
It is not unusual for women to be ordered bed rest during the last stages of their pregnancy, especially if their pregnancy is deemed high risk for some reason or other.

Although the birth of all babies are important to their families, the delivery of Kiko's baby is obviously very important in a social and historical context for Japan, so taking extra precautions to ensure that she doesn't deliver early or that Kiko herself doesn't experience any medical difficulties or discomfort is probably something to be expected. (No doubt Kiko feels the tremendous pressure of her upcoming birth, too, and is feeling quite stressed and anxious about it all, too.)

I forget the exact medical term (and I am not saying Kiko has it) but for example, Maxima (and I think Mette-Marit, too) was ordered bed rest for the last several weeks before delivering Amalia.

I do have one question that I may have missed in this thread: Why did Kiko and her husband not choose to find out the sex of their baby earlier? A friend just marked her 18th week of pregnancy and was able to find out the sex of her baby. In Kiko's case wouldn't that have relieved her stress one way or another and end the discussion of reform to the Japanese constitution?
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  #362  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:07 PM
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The Imperial Household must know she is having a boy. With all the technology that is at their fingertips and the "importance" of having a boy...I can't imagine they would want to have egg on their face with the arrival of another girl. Which is disturbing in another way..all those pretty princessess and they are worried about the succession.
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  #363  
Old 08-17-2006, 11:11 PM
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Alexandria, as I recall the statement just said, "the couple do not wish to know the gender of the baby until delivery".

And Vanesa, I agree with Alexandria that I really don't think her hospitalization means something is wrong. She is 39, the stress must be exhausting for her, if indeed she does know it is a boy she must have alot on her mind because her life will change, she may have some family dynamics to work through in the near future, and it has been stated she has placenta previa so perhaps they want her in a qualified hospital, especially since you wouldn't want an emergency bleed during Tokyo's rush hour!!

All that said, my sentiments are almost exactly those of Elspeth's in post #350, meaning I think everything in the Imperial Family is a very intentioned and well orchestrated "dance" conducted by the IHA. All the key players are in the positions they are to be in and now it's time for the birth.
  #364  
Old 08-18-2006, 03:19 PM
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I think the IHA knows the gender already, i dont think they would let all this expectation to grow about the possible birth of a male heir to the throne if they were not sure it was a boy.
  #365  
Old 08-18-2006, 04:41 PM
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I feel sorry for princess Kiko. I guess great preassure was put on her to get pregnant again. I don't think she got pregnant accidently. And I hope it will be a boy because I'm afraid many traditionalists would be disappinted with Kiko and IHA would resent her. But I also have feeling that IHA already knows it'll be a boy.
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  #366  
Old 08-18-2006, 04:57 PM
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I wouldn't feel too sorry for her. If the baby is a boy, the prospect of Emperor Aksihino and Empress Kiko becomes a possibility if the younger brother outlives the elder. Without this boy, the succession would go straight from Naruhito to Aiko or to some adopted son that the IHA managed to foist on him.
  #367  
Old 08-18-2006, 08:46 PM
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I feel that akisino is very ambitious and he want be emperator and for that with this pregnant the kiko's life and the baby are in danger.
I don't think this prenat would be natural, and if is a boy the aiko's future is compicated but if is a girl the law must be change.
wait and see, nothing is imposible, may be (sure) this baby is a boy but masako may be have another baby without the pressures for a heir
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  #368  
Old 08-18-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Alexandria, as I recall the statement just said, "the couple do not wish to know the gender of the baby until delivery".
Thanks for clarifying that Emily. Even though the couple may not know, I wonder if the IHA knows?

It seems very suspicious to me that with the technology available to find out the gender of one's baby and the lack of action by the Japanese government to allow females to succeed to the Chrysanthemum throne that the IHA might not find out at the first chance they got to find out the sex of this baby.

Here is a very hypotheical scenario/question: What if this baby is a girl and the Emperor and Empress' daughter Nori has a son? Even though when she married a commoner her royal status changed, could her son still succeed to the throne even if it bypassed his mother?

For example, that would mean the succession following the Emperor Akihito would be: Naruhito, followed by his brother (if Nori's son was too young), then Nori's son and then his son. Would that ever be possible?
  #369  
Old 08-18-2006, 09:55 PM
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Please someone correct me if I am wrong -- but I believe I read that the "Emperor-ship" has to pass through the male line. If that is true, then Nori's son wouldn't qualify because it has gone through the female. That is why past Emperor's took concubines to produce a male.

In addition, I also find it sooo odd that it is said people don't know. Wouldn't she have had amniocentisis just to determine if anything was wrong so that they could have appropriate pediatric help at the delivery? And with ultrasound having been done to determine placenta previa, surely the Dr. knows.
  #370  
Old 08-18-2006, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Please someone correct me if I am wrong -- but I believe I read that the "Emperor-ship" has to pass through the male line. If that is true, then Nori's son wouldn't qualify because it has gone through the female. That is why past Emperor's took concubines to produce a male.
Thanks again Emily.

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me though: A son born to the happily married daughter of the Emperor and Empress is bypassed for a son born to a son of the Emperor and Empress and his concubine. Where is the reasoning in that?
  #371  
Old 08-18-2006, 10:09 PM
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I know. I feel the same way. Talk about a diluted line through the numerous concubines employed over centuries all for the sake of producing through the male. The rationale for this seems seriously undermined but I am struggling with myself to try and understand the cultural difference.
  #372  
Old 08-18-2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Thanks again Emily.

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me though: A son born to the happily married daughter of the Emperor and Empress is bypassed for a son born to a son of the Emperor and Empress and his concubine. Where is the reasoning in that?
The male line is the important one, it's been unbroken. According to traditionalists it's the unbroken y chromosome that gets passed down. Even in the past when there have been female emperors it was only a temporary measure until a male nephew could take over the throne. Therefore the male line has remained unbroken.

If Princess Sayako has a son, he still wouldn't be considered emperor material as the male line was broken, his male line comes from his father.

The male Emperor is the important one to pass on his y chromosome, it doesn't matter if the female was his wife or concubine.

Note here that this is extreme traditionalist thinking, on par with religious fundamentalism, most Japanese do not subscribe to this thinking. It's just the one that gets the most press as it's the most sensational, like religious fundamentalism.
  #373  
Old 08-18-2006, 10:35 PM
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I have yet to see a pic of Princess Kiko where she actually LOOKS pregnant. She just looks like she has clothes on that are way too big for her.
  #374  
Old 08-18-2006, 10:36 PM
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On behalf of all men in the planet I apologize for all the trouble we are making because of our Y chromosome.

That said, anyone knows if there is a movement to liberate the royals from the cursed Imperial Household people that control their lives and mating rituals? Anyone from Japan (or that can read Japanese newspapers) knows of any attempt from the government to eliminate this group now that they have been exposed to so much bad publicity?

Although if that baby ends up being a girl (remember some of us thought Letizia would have a boy and Mary was going to have a girl?) that will certantly rock them off their chairs!
  #375  
Old 08-18-2006, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Thanks again Emily.

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me though: A son born to the happily married daughter of the Emperor and Empress is bypassed for a son born to a son of the Emperor and Empress and his concubine. Where is the reasoning in that?
It's the precious imperial Y chromosome, you see. They even had geneticists in on the discussion about the succession and what it would mean to let Aiko rule without just being a placeholder for a male cousin.

The really idiotic thing is that the imperial line is supposed to trace back to a female deity, so the imperial Y chromosome presumably didn't start with her.
  #376  
Old 08-18-2006, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
Note here that this is extreme traditionalist thinking, on par with religious fundamentalism, most Japanese do not subscribe to this thinking. It's just the one that gets the most press as it's the most sensational, like religious fundamentalism.
Charlotte, do you mean to say that "extreme traditionalist thinking" is the whole Imperial Establishment, though? And if the Diet is a representative democracy --- why isn't more of the "thinking most Japanese subscribe to" being represented? I am not getting this. In America we have had a very vocal group of religious fundamentalists influencing politics for the past several years. But, as often happens, there is a backlash building right now to move things toward the center again. Why isn't this happening in Japan?
  #377  
Old 08-19-2006, 12:13 AM
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The Civil Service, to which a lot of these dinosaurs belong, isn't quite as dependent on public opinion as the politicians. And Japan has effectively been ruled by one party for a long time now, so the devil really is in the details.
  #378  
Old 08-19-2006, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
It's the precious imperial Y chromosome, you see. They even had geneticists in on the discussion about the succession and what it would mean to let Aiko rule without just being a placeholder for a male cousin.

The really idiotic thing is that the imperial line is supposed to trace back to a female deity, so the imperial Y chromosome presumably didn't start with her.
This week I was reading for the zillion time one of my favorite books, Titles, How the King Became His Majesty by LG Pine. The section on Indian titles mentions something that caught my interest because it brings to mind the ridiculous situation caused by the Y cromosome in Japan. India had many title holders passed from male to male but one, Travancore, where the kingship was passed in the female line. And that also brings to my mind another book I read years ago by the late Linda Scheele on the Mayas. She states in those ancient Maya Kingdoms kingship was matrilineal, the legacy of the mother was the one that counted. Cultures as ancient as Japan's decided that the female line is as acceptable as the male line.
So we go back to the recent root of this problem. The Japanese constitution was influenced by extremely chauvinistic ideas of those who won WW II, like McArthur. Who would have thought in the post war era imposing a foreign nation of another nation's viewpoint would have created this problem we see today with the sucesion to the Japanese throne.
  #379  
Old 08-19-2006, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Charlotte, do you mean to say that "extreme traditionalist thinking" is the whole Imperial Establishment, though? And if the Diet is a representative democracy --- why isn't more of the "thinking most Japanese subscribe to" being represented? I am not getting this. In America we have had a very vocal group of religious fundamentalists influencing politics for the past several years. But, as often happens, there is a backlash building right now to move things toward the center again. Why isn't this happening in Japan?
Japan does have a minority and quite extreme right wing power group, they seem to be the ones most quoted by foreign media, especially over things like the female sucession. Japanese people themselves though, culturally are not protestors, to create a scene or be critical is 'not the Japanese way'. That's why when Naruhito went public with his complaints of the pressure Masako had been under it caused such a sensation. Not what he said, I think most Japanese would have been well aware how tradition bound and difficult life was for her as part of the Imperial Family, but rather that he made it public. Westerners, particularly from cultures that have a strong sense of protest against governments and policies they don't agree with do find it difficult to understand the Japanese way of just accepting, rather than protesting to change. To create a scene or 'get loud' as one of my Japanese friends said is just about the worst thing you can do.
Also caught up in this, is the importance Japanese place on tradition. While, particularly young Japanese see the Imperial Family as irrelevant there's still the sense that 'that's the way it is, that's our tradition' It's the Japanese way. It's the foreign journalists in Japan that write articles about the relevance of the monarchy and should Japan retain their monarchy, for the Japanese ( and Japanese media) it's a non-issue. It's tradition, you don't mess with tradition. So while young women would state they wouldn't wish Masako's life ( or Kiko's for that matter) on their worst enemy they're not really going to vote through parliament for a huge change. Demographically too Japan is top heavy with older people, there are fewer younger people, last year for the first time the birthrate dropped below the deathrate. Older people are more conservative, and place a greater importance on tradition and the status quo.
  #380  
Old 08-19-2006, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
That said, anyone knows if there is a movement to liberate the royals from the cursed Imperial Household people that control their lives and mating rituals? Anyone from Japan (or that can read Japanese newspapers) knows of any attempt from the government to eliminate this group now that they have been exposed to so much bad publicity?

There's no real movement in Japan to reform the IHA, but please realise that they are just a huge bureacracy that is very traditional bound to serve an extremely traditional institution. Change happens very slowly in Japan, and it doesn't happen through criticism. The Imperial Family members aren't totally helpless the crown prince couple recently appointed a new head of household who was a former diplomat with Masako's father. Bad publicity is in the foreign press, there is a different cultural value system at play. Some Japanese that I've spoken too about the whole bad press sitution are very dismissive of the sensational reporting of the foreign media. All that evil IHA stuff, Masako as the 'broken butterfly' to them it's not all that accurate and shows a total lack of understanding of Japanese institutions. Very emotive and not necessarily accurate, there's a lot of selective misquotation. The one that's the most glaringly obvious is the statement by Prince Tomohito. The first part which is always quoted "the crown prince could take a concubine" the end of the sentence which is not "but in this day and age that's socially unaccetable".
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