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  #261  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:34 AM
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http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national...07TDY11002.htm

The name of the boy will be decided at special ceremony to be hold on tuesday
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  #262  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monica821
when we can see the face of this baby?
We can see his face when Princess Kiko leaves hospital,about September 16.
I can't wait
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  #263  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by merampo
We can see his face when Princess Kiko leaves hospital,about September 16.
I can't wait
Ok,thanks you
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  #264  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by USRoyalist
They seem to be learning from experience. Reproducing is a primary function in an hereditary system. Naruhito married and started trying to breed way too late, which is what caused the crisis. If Akishino and Kiko hadn't waited fourteen years to start shooting (sorry) for a son, a lot of anxiety could have been prevented. I don't want to sound mean and crude, but this is a basic rule royalty world-over has understood for centuries.
Masako is a lovely, brilliant, talented person who has not been treated very well, and we all feel for her travails, but the fact remains she failed at the one function she absolutely had to perform. The IHA is not going to let that happen again.
I think this is what followers of royalty who believe it is all about fairytales don't understand. It is about tradition, protocol and above all, it is all about the heir, and who qualifies as heir depends on the present laws and constitution of that particular country. It doesn't mean the law can't be changed but the male-only succession is the law right now as it was when Kiko and Akishino married and when Masako and Naruhito got married.
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  #265  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
I think this is what followers of royalty who believe it is all about fairytales don't understand. It is about tradition, protocol and above all, it is all about the heir, and who qualifies as heir depends on the present laws and constitution of that particular country. It doesn't mean the law can't be changed but the male-only succession is the law right now as it was when Kiko and Akishino married and when Masako and Naruhito got married.
Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.
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  #266  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo
Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.
But it is the law as of right now.
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  #267  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Laviollette
But it is the law as of right now.
Still doesn't mean it's right.
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  #268  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo
Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.
Yes, there was 8 Empress. But the difference was their children weren't allowed to inherit (unless their kids father was part of the imperial line.)

So while having Empress Aiko would not be a break with Tradition, having Empress Aiko's kids inherit the throne (without their daddy being a member of the Imperial family) would be a break with tradition..
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  #269  
Old 09-08-2006, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bekalc
Yes, there was 8 Empress. But the difference was their children weren't allowed to inherit (unless their kids father was part of the imperial line.)

So while having Empress Aiko would not be a break with Tradition, having Empress Aiko's kids inherit the throne (without their daddy being a member of the Imperial family) would be a break with tradition..
1. Empress Suiko 593-628; 3 daughter of Emperor Kimmei, consort of her half-borther Emp. Bidastu, but after his first wife died she became his official wife and given the title of official wife of the emperor.At a time when imperial succession was generally determined by clan leaders, rather than the emperor, Suiko left only vague indications of succession to two candidates while on her deathbed. One[ prince Tamura, was a grandson of Emperor Bidatsu and was supported by the main line of Sogas, including Soga no Emishi. The other, prince Yamashiro, was a son of Prince Shōtoku and had the support of some lesser members of the Soga clan.
2. Ruled twice: 1 as Empress Kogyoku 642-645 and 2 as Empress Saimei 655-661; was a wife and Empress Consort of Emperor Jomei and had three children future Emp. Tenji, Emp. Temmu and Princess Hashihito.
3. Empress Jito 686-697; was the daughter of Emp. Tenji and took the throne after of her husband Emp. Temmu's (also her uncle) death, in order of her granddson Emp. Mommu. Abdicated.
4. Empress Gemmei 707-715; daughter of Emp. Tenji, eife of CP Kusakabe no Miko - son of Emp. Temmu and Empss Jito. He was also her cousin and nephew. She succeded the throne after their son Emp. Mommu dead, in hopes of holding it untill her grandson Emp. Shomu reached maturity. Abdicated in favor of Mommu's sis Empss Gansho.
5. Empress Gensho 715-724; sister of Emp. Mommu, daughter of Prince Kusakabe and later Empss Gemmei, grandaughter of Emp. Temmu and Empss Jito by her father and granddaughter of Emp. Tenji after her mother.Her succession was mainly for the purpose to hold the throne until Prince Obito, the son of her deceased younger brother Mommu, later Emperor Emp. Shomu - to mature enough ascend to the throne.
6. Reigned twice: 1 as Empress Koken 749-758 and 2 as Empss. Shotoku 764-770. Abdicated.
7. Empress Meisho 1620-1643; 2 daughter of Emp. Go-Mizunoo and Tokugawa Kazuko, daughter of 2nd shogun-Tokugawa Hidetada. Abdicated.
8. Empress Go-Sakuramachi 1762-1771; 2 daughter of Emperor Sakumarachi.
In 1762, she acceded to the throne by a special decree of Emperor Momozono, whose son Prince Hidehito (later Emperor Go-Momozono) was only 5 years old. By her enthronement, she became the first reigning empress in her own right in 119 years.
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  #270  
Old 09-08-2006, 03:23 PM
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Congratulations to the Prince and Princess!
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  #271  
Old 09-08-2006, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USRoyalist
They seem to be learning from experience. Reproducing is a primary function in an hereditary system. Naruhito married and started trying to breed way too late, which is what caused the crisis. If Akishino and Kiko hadn't waited fourteen years to start shooting (sorry) for a son, a lot of anxiety could have been prevented. I don't want to sound mean and crude, but this is a basic rule royalty world-over has understood for centuries.
Masako is a lovely, brilliant, talented person who has not been treated very well, and we all feel for her travails, but the fact remains she failed at the one function she absolutely had to perform. The IHA is not going to let that happen again.
What makes you so sure they "started trying to breed way too late"? If it's true then it was a bad mistake on their part, but I was under the assumption they had been trying for awhile and that's why they ended doing IVF (if those reports are true). I'm just curious where you're getting your sources from?
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  #272  
Old 09-08-2006, 07:51 PM
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Congratulation to Princess Kiko.
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  #273  
Old 09-08-2006, 08:55 PM
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Congrats! I can't not wait to see the pictures of the baby! And of course,I'm relieved that all went all right with Princess Kiko pregnancy.

Vanesa.
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  #274  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:08 PM
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Yes, I wanna see the baby prince too!
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  #275  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:34 PM
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Two things.

One, I read the other day that a whopping 60% (SIXTY!) percent of the Japanese people would NOT mind having a female on the throne.

Second, and this is a question, does the newborn's father actually do anything for a living? Or does he spend his days behind palace walls, looking as cold as he does in public?

If it wasn't for the fact I have the impression that Kiko, Masako, and the Crown Prince seem utterly likeable people somehow, I'd call this whole thing utterly SINISTER. And plotted. And mind you, I'm not one for conspiracies.
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  #276  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:54 PM
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Today the lines are drawn on the sand, one brother is the Heir Apparent and the other one is the Second to the throne and holds the third Heir apparent. Shades of the story of the Dukes of Windsor. We've seen brother/or cousin fight brother/or cousin in other dynasties already, like the Bourbon Two-Sicilies, the Orleans and the Borbons, The Spanish Borbons, the Borbons and the Bonaparte/Napoleons and of course, the Romanovs. Now it's Japan's turn to write the next chapter on family quarrels.

But that will be theme for future threads. Tonight I just hope mother and child are doing fine and her health after giving birth is closely monitored.
Congratulations to them and their family.
[/QUOTE]

this situation is similar to Belgum"late king Boudwin had no children and the throne passed to his brother Albert and in the future to Phillpe"As far as I know this has happened smoothly, who knows, maybe somthing like that would happen in Japan.
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  #277  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by princess olga
Two things.

One, I read the other day that a whopping 60% (SIXTY!) percent of the Japanese people would NOT mind having a female on the throne.

Second, and this is a question, does the newborn's father actually do anything for a living? Or does he spend his days behind palace walls, looking as cold as he does in public?

If it wasn't for the fact I have the impression that Kiko, Masako, and the Crown Prince seem utterly likeable people somehow, I'd call this whole thing utterly SINISTER. And plotted. And mind you, I'm not one for conspiracies.
Yes, but that was before the young Prince was born, who knows what the Japanese may think now..

But as for the newborn's father, why he does the same thing the Crown Prince does. He does royal engagements/state trips etc as a member of the royal family.. How do you know he's such a bad guy anyways. Something tells me that you don't really know any of those people. Apparently in the Royal family it seems that the Second son is liked better. So how do you know that the Crown Prince is the nice guy and the others are necessarily the bad guys?

Apparently the Second son and his wife put off having other children for many years, and were asked to try to have children again by the emperor himself.
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  #278  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:46 PM
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Monarchies are not rewarded to people based on merit, they are rewarded based on blood and tradition..When you think about it the fact that Aiko's father is the heir and well the new little prince's father isn't the heir isn't necessarily "fair" to begin with. They have exactly the same blood. Even though from what I've read the IHA and the current emperor would perfer the second son. But tradition is tradition. No matter how anyone feels about that one, surely people can agree that the best royal isn't necessarily the oldest. One only has to look at Queen Elizabeth II"s father and uncle to see that one clearly. Then, there's the fact that the monarchy isn't open to everyone!

So since the monarch is based on Tradition and blood, if the tradition has alwasy been that the monarchy is based on through the male line. I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe its discriminatory, but the the fact that the possibility of being Emperor someday isn't open to everyone is discriminatory as well!

For 1500 years of Tradition. The Japanese monarchy has been based on the male line. That's been their tradition and it is an unbroken line. Then, there is the factor that the Monarch isn't just the head of state in Japan. The monarch is also the High Priest of the Shinto religion, and he use to be regarded as a god! I hear that some Japanese quitely still view the emperor as a god (the more traditional ones.) So, it means that you have a situation which is certainly tense at best, and certainly something that shouldn't be messed with by Westernors but should only be dealt with by the Japanese people anyways.

My feelings are that it would be one thing to change the rule while there was no young boy who was an heir. But now that there is this young boy. It seems kind of unfair to take away what is now his birth right (out from under him) According to the Consitution, 1500 years of Tradition. This young boy's father is legally entitled to be the Crown Prince's heir, and this young boy his father's heir. It's unfair to the Crown Princess brother and to the little guy for this role to be changed. In my book, nothing really is being "stolen" from Aiko because she never had the right to become Empress in the first place. Besides why would she want that job?

In the end what makes people keep monarchies is the traditional/history aspect. When you just "do a way with Tradition left and right, it may make people say hey why do we need a monarchy after all![/quote
]


Well said ,I totally agree with each word esp. the last paragraph.the monarchy is referred to stability and tradition.
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  #279  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:53 PM
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Come on...nobody knows if they really wanted to have more children. They may say this now as an excuse for this last pregnancy. The IHA controls their lifes and whatever they say this comes out in the newspapers and during interviews.
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  #280  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:37 AM
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My feelings are that it would be one thing to change the rule while there was no young boy who was an heir. But now that there is this young boy. It seems kind of unfair to take away what is now his birth right (out from under him) According to the Consitution, 1500 years of Tradition. This young boy's father is legally entitled to be the Crown Prince's heir, and this young boy his father's heir. It's unfair to the Crown Princess brother and to the little guy for this role to be changed. In my book, nothing really is being "stolen" from Aiko because she never had the right to become Empress in the first place. Besides why would she want that job?

Yes. I agree with this paragraph. In ancient times, Aiko would have HAD the right to, but only if all male lines are extinct. now that there is this little prince of akishino... its just wrong to rob him of his birthright.

Come on...nobody knows if they really wanted to have more children.

As I stated in my previous posts, they wanted to have more children, but stopped at two out of courtesy for the Crown Prince couple who were having difficulty having children. But now that the Empreror has given them the go-ahead. Why not?

One, I read the other day that a whopping 60% (SIXTY!) percent of the Japanese people would NOT mind having a female on the throne.

That was before this little prince was born. When Princess Akishino announced her pregnancy, the number of Japanese supporting a female empress dropped, and who knows. after this boy is born, the numbers might drop even further.
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