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  #201  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kimebear
I find it ironic that someone who can throw around phrases like "barin (sic) Crown Princess", "get out of the way", "poor poor Crown Couple", and, of course, "stop whining" actually has the tenacity to whine about the negative comments regarding the birth of a boy. Are you suggesting by the "get out of the way" comment that Naruhito should give up his birthright and step aside as future emperor just because his sister in law had a son? Nobody has suggested that you should not show happiness for Kiko on the birth of a healthy baby, everyone is happy about the safe delivery. But are you really so void of any compassion for a sick woman that you would take this opportunity to kick her when she is down? Shame!
I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.
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  #202  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Laviollette
I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.


Has anyone here NOT said that they were happy Kiko delivered a healthy baby? However, Masako's unhappiness is partly due to the fact that she couldn't give birth to a boy.....and that Kiko just did. I'm sure she's happy that her sister-in-law delivered safely, but I'm also sure it also stings as well.


Also, no one said that Masako is a "total victim". You can feel sorry for someone without thinking them a "total victim".
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  #203  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.
You don't know me, therefore, you cannot judge whether or not I can express joy and happiness at the birth of a little prince. I have had five miscarriages myself. I assure you that I celebrate the healthy birth of any baby, anywhere. Unfortunately, the birth of a son for Kiko is extremely intertwined with Masako's situation. The overwhelming majority of news articles mention the new prince and Masako's lack of one, so it is not just the people on the forum that lump the discussion together.

Yes, it is because of my personal experiences that I can sympathize with Masako's life because I would hate to think that it would be suggested that I be replaced in my husband's life because of my inability to provide him with a child. No, we are not royalty, but my husband is the only child of an only child (his father) of an only child (his grandfather) of an only child (his great grandfather) so his family name will die with him if we don't have a baby. My husband has never pressured me, but I assure you that it is a situation that I would not wish on anyone.
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  #204  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
So what if Akishino is loyal to the IHA? He is also loyal to the reigning Emperor and Empress, his parents who seem supportive of him and his wife. The entire Imperial Family does not rest on one person. It's about the institution. His brother is one person with an admittedly ill wife. Why should the future of the family revolve around them and only them? The Imperial Family will survive without them and go on just like any other royal family should survive after its monarch before moving on to the next monarch.
Well said. Look, it is possible that the imperial family can move on without the CP couple. There's always Prince and Princess Akishino to take over. They are loyal to the Emperor, loyal to Japan and they know where their duties lie. the I am not saying that the CP couple can't do that, but then again, with Masako's illness, the show still has to go on. I do not think that they were forced into having this child as they already wanted to have a child earlier but the Emperor dissauded them from trying for another one out of courtesy for the CP couple.

In Asian societies, you just can't help it if males have more precedence over females. My mom told me how disappointed my paternal grandparents were when I turned out to be female. When females marry, they have to take the surnames of the male. Look at the salaries, generally, males get more than females. Look at Asian militaries, males get drafted, not females. I know everyone's talking about sex equality but admit it, there are things that males can do and females can't. Even Queen Silva said so, in an interview that she admitted that she and the King would rather Prince Carl Phillip acede to the Swedish throne rather than Victoria. In Britain, the Princess Royal was second in line, but was pushed back to fourth when her brothers were born. Look at Luxembourg, Liechtenstein & Thailand (to name afew), females are not even included in succession.
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  #205  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:48 AM
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Well, that didn't take long.....

Japan's Newborn Prince Already Faces Pressure to Produce Heir

By John Brinsley
Sept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The newest heir to the world's oldest monarchy is less than a day old and already has a significant duty to perform: produce a prince of his own....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...SpM&refer=asia
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  #206  
Old 09-07-2006, 01:00 AM
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Prince's birth keeps Japan guessing about stressed Masako
The birth of a long-awaited prince has eased Japan's succession crisis, but the answer is far from clear to another key question -- if it will ease stress on Crown Princess Masako, who was under pressure to produce a male heir.
Some believe the birth Wednesday of a boy to Princess Kiko will relieve the burden on her sister-in-law Masako, a former career woman who makes few public appearances due to her mental state.
But others speculated Masako may feel further psychological pain as Kiko, the wife of the emperor's second son Akishino, takes the public spotlight as the mother of a future monarch....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060907...o_060907044018
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  #207  
Old 09-07-2006, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foiegrass
In Asian societies, you just can't help it if males have more precedence over females. My mom told me how disappointed my paternal grandparents were when I turned out to be female. When females marry, they have to take the surnames of the male. Look at the salaries, generally, males get more than females. Look at Asian militaries, males get drafted, not females. I know everyone's talking about sex equality but admit it, there are things that males can do and females can't. Even Queen Silva said so, in an interview that she admitted that she and the King would rather Prince Carl Phillip acede to the Swedish throne rather than Victoria. In Britain, the Princess Royal was second in line, but was pushed back to fourth when her brothers were born. Look at Luxembourg, Liechtenstein & Thailand (to name afew), females are not even included in succession.
I'm well aware of the Asian culture since I'm Asian. It definitely is a male-dominated culture. I think that the IHA need to face reality: it's the 21st century. Men and women can't do the same things, that I agree. However, being Emperor/Empress really isn't one of them IMO. Henry VIII of England was so desperate for a boy that he went through many wives and killed two of them. His heir? His daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth I has been one of England's greatest monarch of all time. I wish the IHA would give little Aiko a chance. Besides, she wouldn't be the first Empress in Japans' history so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
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  #208  
Old 09-07-2006, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soCal girl
I'm well aware of the Asian culture since I'm Asian. It definitely is a male-dominated culture. I think that the IHA need to face reality: it's the 21st century. Men and women can't do the same things, that I agree. However, being Emperor/Empress really isn't one of them IMO. Henry VIII of England was so desperate for a boy that he went through many wives and killed two of them. His heir? His daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth I has been one of England's greatest monarch of all time. I wish the IHA would give little Aiko a chance. Besides, she wouldn't be the first Empress in Japans' history so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
No she wouldn't be the first Empress, but she would be the first Empress to inherit the throne outright since the 1700s. Any other Empresses in history I believe, were acting as Regents until the male heir was old enough to take over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Go-Sakuramachi


Quote:
Empress Go-Sakuramachi (後桜町天皇 Go-Sakuramachi Tennō) (September 23, 1740December 24, 1813) was the 117th imperial ruler of Japan, according to the traditional order of succession. She is the last woman ever to reign as Empress Regent, out of eight in the history of Japan, ruling from September 15, 1762 to January 9, 1771 before abdicating in favor of her nephew, Emperor Go-Momozono.
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  #209  
Old 09-07-2006, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
No she wouldn't be the first Empress, but she would be the first Empress to inherit the throne outright since the 1700s. Any other Empresses in history I believe, were acting as Regents until the male heir was old enough to take over.
If Japan had reigning Empresses during the 1700's and survived, it surely can survive Aiko being Empress in the 21st century.
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  #210  
Old 09-07-2006, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
How should the prince and princess have "orchestrated" the opinions in this forum? Please, I'm really curious to learn how this could have been done. And what don you mean by "barin"? My dictionary doesn't know the word... Help is very much appreciated.
The reason why the dictionary doesn't know the word "barin" is because the correct spelling is "barren". It means a person who is unable to have a child. I'm not sure this applies to Masako because being barren implies that she cannot become pregnant at all. Though she had IVF with Aiko, her first pregnancy was natural. She just has a harder time carrying a baby to term. Didn't she have an ectopic pregancy? (Pregnancy outside the uterus) That's just a fluke of nature and not, to my knowledge, an inherited thing.

I used to think that the vast majority of people here still desperately want to believe in a fairytale ending (i.e. Albert of Monaco's illegitimate children succeeding him, Louis of Luxemburg marrying the mother of his out-of-wedlock child and living happily-ever-after, etc.), but this topic has shown me that a lot of us are skeptical and suspicious about motives (Masako "orchestrating" sympathy). It's good, I guess, that we have a wide variety of opinions because otherwise it'd be boring around here.

Anyway, rejoicing or not, Japan has only temporarily postponed the problem. Trust me, it'll crop up again.

It was big risk for Kiko to go through with this pregnancy. She's of advanced maternal age. I'm glad she came through it fine.

As for Prince Akishino and the IHA, I wouldn't be surprised if the pregnacy was the one that was orchestrated. Between the two brothers, Akishino is the one that is more likely to bow down to the will of the IHA for tradition's sake. At least Naruhito spoke out to defend his wife, Akishino might have caved in to the pressure of producing a male child. No one can ever find out for sure, but from what I've read and heard, this is my opinion. I believe that the IHA is the real cause of turmoil in this family, in their stubborn pursuit of holding on to a tradition that could mean the end of their very institution.
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  #211  
Old 09-07-2006, 02:07 AM
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I think we should not only blame IHA for wanting to have a male heir to imperial throne. It is very long tradition (1500 or something years) that only a man can inherit a throne. Why it's so difficult for some to accept Japanese imperial tradition and that they don't want to change it easly? Why does each monarchy have to modernize the way as Western monarchies do.

And I'm happy for Kiko and Akishino. I can't wait till September 12 to know the name of a baby boy and I hope they will publish pictures of a boy soon, but probably not before 12th.
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  #212  
Old 09-07-2006, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soCal girl
If Japan had reigning Empresses during the 1700's and survived, it surely can survive Aiko being Empress in the 21st century.
I truely hope that CP Naruhito will do His best to let His daughter get the throne after Him. He are prepared to be an Emperor since His very young age so He also ready to prepare Princess Aiko. Prince Akishino aren't specially prepared to be Emperor, right?
But despite of all these debates, I just wish the best for Cp's family. If Aiko become Empress I'm sure he will be a great one, but if not, I just hope that She will have a very normal and happy life with her parents.
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  #213  
Old 09-07-2006, 03:39 AM
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Photos regarding the news of the Prince's birth from getty images
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/sou...%7c0&p=1&tag=1

Newborn prince 3rd in line / Imperial House Law lays down accession stipulations
...Article 8 of the Imperial House Law stipulates that a son of the emperor designated to be the successor is called the crown prince.
When the crown prince ascends the throne, Prince Akishino will not be the crown prince even if he becomes the first in line to the throne, due to the provision in Article 8.
The newborn prince will be the crown prince only if Prince Akishino ascends the throne...
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national...07TDY02004.htm
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  #214  
Old 09-07-2006, 03:47 AM
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http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national...07TDY10002.htm

Here there's a interesting text with details regarding princess's Kiko pregnancy- the summary
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  #215  
Old 09-07-2006, 06:42 AM
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Does anyone not note that the male/husband's sperm is the determiner of the sex of the baby? It boils my blood to think that this archaic monarchy still blames the woman for not having a son!

Diane
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  #216  
Old 09-07-2006, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by el-khanz
I truely hope that CP Naruhito will do His best to let His daughter get the throne after Him. He are prepared to be an Emperor since His very young age so He also ready to prepare Princess Aiko. Prince Akishino aren't specially prepared to be Emperor, right?
Well many good kings and queens are not specially prepared as they are second in the line. Well prepared does not mean they will be good leaders.
One more thing I think if Aiko becomes an empress, she will face a big problem of Shinto rituals and Japanese has to choose between empress and their long traditions. I don't sure they will prefer Aiko at all.
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  #217  
Old 09-07-2006, 08:53 AM
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Given the emotional stress Masako went through I personally believe she's probably glad a boy was born even if it was by her brother and sister in law. It takes an enormous amount of pressure off her now. No one is going to really care about her faiulure because everyone will be so focused on the new little prince. Aiko looks happy and healthy in all her pictures. Given what Masako has gone through I think all she wants for her daughter is to live a happy and normal life without having to be held back by imperial restrictions and her position. She can actually live a full life.
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  #218  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:07 AM
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Congratulation for the couple! I think they're very happy now, and also all of the Japanese..
just ask, what name that they will give to the baby? will that end by hito like his uncle and father?
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  #219  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear
...I would hate to think that it would be suggested that I be replaced in my husband's life because of my inability to provide him with a child. No, we are not royalty, but my husband is the only child of an only child (his father) of an only child (his grandfather) of an only child (his great grandfather) so his family name will die with him if we don't have a baby. My husband has never pressured me, but I assure you that it is a situation that I would not wish on anyone.
I never said that Masako should be replaced by her husband because she hasn't had a son. My point is that Kiko has had a son. She has provided a male heir for the throne of Japan so that should take the pressure off Masako. So why the continued caustic comments about the baby being a boy. Now all of a sudden everyone is hoping Masako gets pregnant again and has a male child. Why when that will just make a depressed person more depressed? This is what you all have been complaining about isn't it? Is it because Princess Kiko is now the mother of the heir? Seems like there's some jealousy going on here, imho.
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  #220  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by soCal girl
I'm well aware of the Asian culture since I'm Asian. It definitely is a male-dominated culture. I think that the IHA need to face reality: it's the 21st century. Men and women can't do the same things, that I agree. However, being Emperor/Empress really isn't one of them IMO. Henry VIII of England was so desperate for a boy that he went through many wives and killed two of them. His heir? His daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth I has been one of England's greatest monarch of all time. I wish the IHA would give little Aiko a chance. Besides, she wouldn't be the first Empress in Japans' history so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
I totally agree that female monarchs are just as good as male monarchs and my support for Akishino and Kiko do not reflect an opinion that males are better. But I have a problem with singling out Japan when many monarchies have these same rules of succession--involving gender and religion with a couple of recently married princesses having to convert to the religion represented by their respective royal families. Japan currently has a male-only succession. It has over a thousand years of history and that's hard to shake even if one does believe in equalizing the monarchy between males and females.

Btw, I happen to think that QEII, Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix are fantastic monarchs and I am excited about all the new little princesses in Europe who will become future heads of state but each country and society has to develop and advance at their own pace not everyone else's pace.
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