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  #181  
Old 09-06-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Either produce the heir or get out of the way and let someone else produce the heir. Stop whining about your privileged life and get on with your duties.

What an absolutely cold and insensitive statement. Has CPss Masako publicly "whined" about her life? Has she ranted and raved about the injustices she's been forced to endure?

I don't understand how you can be so heartless as to her condition. Have you had difficulties getting pregnant? Do you know women who've had difficulties getting pregnant? She miscarried her first pregancy and was blessed to deliver a healthy baby girl when she did. You make her sound like a baby factory and if a part is defective, she should be thrown into the streets.

Deplorable.
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  #182  
Old 09-06-2006, 08:52 PM
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The birth of this new prince affects the whole family, so I will post on this thread regarding the comments on Masako:

Either produce the heir or get out of the way and let someone else produce the heir. Stop whining about your privileged life and get on with your duties-

Masako did not whine. She carefully worded it as finding a balance between her official duties as a CPss and her own person. She tried for 10 years before sinking into depression. She was not only very depressed, but actually had shingles. The extent of her illness indicates that it's not just a matter of whining, and Queen Beatrix's invitation for the family to vacation in the Netherlands speaks of how real and grave the illness is. Also, she was made to resume some duties by the IHA last year even if her doctors expressed concern about it. She's sick and yet she still makes the effort to do her duties. Masako has trouble bearing, add that to the pressure heaped on her by the IHA, she's sick and taking medication so it hasn't been even possible for the last three years.

IMHO, the Japanese Imperial Family are not at all privileged like their European counterparts. They have very little personal assets and have no freedom. Masako can't even call her parents without permission.

I am happy to hear that Masako feels joyful about her new nephew. Hope the family can stand united now.
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  #183  
Old 09-06-2006, 09:15 PM
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More thoughts

You have to give Princess Kiko credit for going through the pregnancy with grace and dignity. It was probably not an easy process to experience, as her hospilitization at the end of her pregnancy seems to indicate.

Do I think that the IHA had everything to do with this child? Yes. There have been rumors about this for quite a while.

Do I suspect that Princess Kiko was implanted with the eggs most likely to produce a male child and then tested quite early on to determine the sex of the baby and would have been strongly and constantly encouraged by the IHA to terminate and 'try again' if it was not a male? Yes.

However, she did what she considered her duty and went through the experience. We don't know what it cost her to conceive this baby. We can't judge as we are not in a position to know. She might have a life of privilege, but it's not an easy one to live.

From what I understand, the Imperial Family exists at the pleasure of the IHA, and the first rule of bureauracy is to self perpetuate. They NEED a male heir to continue their rule. They did what they could to get one.

On another note: I'll bet the IHA took it personally that Masako delivered a female, and they will do what they can to make her pay for it.

So, best wishes to Princess Kiko for a happy life with her family, and congratulations on the new addition.
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  #184  
Old 09-06-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reen
You have to give Princess Kiko credit for going through the pregnancy with grace and dignity. It was probably not an easy process to experience, as her hospilitization at the end of her pregnancy seems to indicate.

Do I think that the IHA had everything to do with this child? Yes. There have been rumors about this for quite a while.

Do I suspect that Princess Kiko was implanted with the eggs most likely to produce a male child and then tested quite early on to determine the sex of the baby and would have been strongly and constantly encouraged by the IHA to terminate and 'try again' if it was not a male? Yes.

However, she did what she considered her duty and went through the experience. We don't know what it cost her to conceive this baby. We can't judge as we are not in a position to know. She might have a life of privilege, but it's not an easy one to live.

From what I understand, the Imperial Family exists at the pleasure of the IHA, and the first rule of bureauracy is to self perpetuate. They NEED a male heir to continue their rule. They did what they could to get one.

On another note: I'll bet the IHA took it personally that Masako delivered a female, and they will do what they can to make her pay for it.

So, best wishes to Princess Kiko for a happy life with her family, and congratulations on the new addition.
I absolutely agree. Pregnancy for a woman of advanced maternal age is never easy. I am glad Kiko and the baby came through it all well.
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  #185  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:14 PM
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I don't believe the IHA would have allowed IVF as concerned as they are with tradition. Besides, Akishino and Kiko are such a beautiful couple, I much prefer to contemplate them creating an heir in the traditional way!
I'm all in favor of women inheriting or accomplishing whatever they want, but throwing over a 1,500 old tradition is not something to be done lightly. As Churchill said, "When it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change."
It is always a good idea to have several eligible heirs for safety's sake. Monarchs have traditionally had large families for precisely this reason. Queen Charlotte (Mrs. George III) had fourteen children, Victoria had nine. This notion of reviving concubinage because modern Japanese women blanch at the idea of having more than two children does not bode well for the future of the Japanese nation.
In any event, I'm happy for the Family and the Nation.
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  #186  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Wow..they did it! Got to hand it to the IHA...
This comment, two whole minutes after learning the new born child was a boy, seems very negative to me. But that's just me. Furthermore, while you claim that you are only bashing the IHA, my impression is that there is an implication that the Prince and Princess are part of this conspiracy by the IHA to provide a male heir. jmo.
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  #187  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
What an absolutely cold and insensitive statement. Has CPss Masako publicly "whined" about her life? Has she ranted and raved about the injustices she's been forced to endure?

I don't understand how you can be so heartless as to her condition. Have you had difficulties getting pregnant? Do you know women who've had difficulties getting pregnant? She miscarried her first pregancy and was blessed to deliver a healthy baby girl when she did. You make her sound like a baby factory and if a part is defective, she should be thrown into the streets.

Deplorable.
Kiko provided the heir so what's the problem? Why should we feel sorry for Masako? She can go on with her life now, right?
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  #188  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USRoyalist
I don't believe the IHA would have allowed IVF as concerned as they are with tradition.
It was strongly rumoured, although I don't know how authoritative the knowledge was, that Princess Aiko's birth was due to IVF, so there would have been a precedent.
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  #189  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Kiko provided the heir so what's the problem? Why should we feel sorry for Masako? She can go on with her life now, right?

You didn't address any statement in my post. You conveniently glossed over where I asked you if you thought she was nothing more than a baby maker and if a part was defective [she couldn't conceive a male child] she should be thrown in the streets since she didn't do her "duty".

She as the CPss, needed to produce a male heir as the IHA had issues with females inheriting. She had problems conceiving, and when she did, she miscarried. She conceives again, but this time delivers a girl....not what they wanted. The pressure she was under to produce a male child must have been stifling and while we are all glad that the Princess Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy, that doesn't mean we can't feel bad for the situation Masako was put in and might very well continue to be in, since she didn't do her "duty". What about the Princess Aiko? What of her situation? She's the daughter of the Crown Prince, but she's not a boy.....what happens to her in this situation?


You still haven't backed up your assertions that Masako "whined" about anything.
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  #190  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
This comment, two whole minutes after learning the new born child was a boy, seems very negative to me. But that's just me. Furthermore, while you claim that you are only bashing the IHA, my impression is that there is an implication that the Prince and Princess are part of this conspiracy by the IHA to provide a male heir. jmo.
Its funny how many people had negative comments about the role of the IHA during this pregnancy....yet you keyed in on mine. Regardless.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And while I am sure both parents wanted an additional child and are happy regarding his birth...based upon some of the actions of Prince Akishino and his loyalty to the IHA rather his brother...I would say that both the Prince and Princess Akishino played a small part in this "conspiracy."
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  #191  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
You didn't address any statement in my post. You conveniently glossed over where I asked you if you thought she was nothing more than a baby maker and if a part was defective [she couldn't conceive a male child] she should be thrown in the streets since she didn't do her "duty".

She as the CPss, needed to produce a male heir as the IHA had issues with females inheriting. She had problems conceiving, and when she did, she miscarried. She conceives again, but this time delivers a girl....not what they wanted. The pressure she was under to produce a male child must have been stifling and while we are all glad that the Princess Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy, that doesn't mean we can't feel bad for the situation Masako was put in and might very well continue to be in, since she didn't do her "duty". What about the Princess Aiko? What of her situation? She's the daughter of the Crown Prince, but she's not a boy.....what happens to her in this situation?


You still haven't backed up your assertions that Masako "whined" about anything.
Of course she doesn't publicly "whine" but the whole world knows about her problems don't they? No one read her mind. And I don't care whether or not she has problems conceiving a child or not! I hope she's happy with her daughter. It is irrelevant at this point whether she has another child or not anyway, isn't it?
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  #192  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Its funny how many people had negative comments about the role of the IHA during this pregnancy....yet you keyed in on mine. Regardless.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And while I am sure both parents wanted an additional child and are happy regarding his birth...based upon some of the actions of Prince Akishino and his loyalty to the IHA rather his brother...I would say that both the Prince and Princess Akishino played a small part in this "conspiracy."
I haven't singled you out. Yours are some of many that I've read since the announcement of the pregnancy last February. Months and months of negative speculation about this unborn child and how it was concocted by the evil IHA. Then the birth finally comes and now pages and pages of negative comments about what a disappointment the birth of a little boy is. I'm expressing my strong opinion just like many have been doing for months.

So what if Akishino is loyal to the IHA? He is also loyal to the reigning Emperor and Empress, his parents who seem supportive of him and his wife. The entire Imperial Family does not rest on one person. It's about the institution. His brother is one person with an admittedly ill wife. Why should the future of the family revolve around them and only them? The Imperial Family will survive without them and go on just like any other royal family should survive after its monarch before moving on to the next monarch.
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  #193  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Of course she doesn't publicly "whine" but the whole world knows about her problems don't they? No one read her mind. And I don't care whether or not she has problems conceiving a child or not! I hope she's happy with her daughter. It is irrelevant at this point whether she has another child or not anyway, isn't it?

Actually no it's not. If her and Naruhito have another baby and it's a boy, that child will displace Kiko's son as the heir to the throne. So it's not "irrelevant" if they have another child. I don't know if they will, but if the IHA used IVF and genetic screening to insure that Kiko's child was a boy, that won't stop them from doing it to Masako should they say she should have another child.

And of course you don't care if she had problems conceiving. Your ability to feel any pity or sorrow for others is riding on 0 right now.
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  #194  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
I haven't singled you out. Yours are some of many that I've read since the announcement of the pregnancy last February. Months and months of negative speculation about this unborn child and how it was concocted by the evil IHA. Then the birth finally comes and now pages and pages of negative comments about what a disappointment the birth of a little boy is. I'm expressing my strong opinion just like many have been doing for months.
I find it ironic that someone who can throw around phrases like "barin (sic) Crown Princess", "get out of the way", "poor poor Crown Couple", and, of course, "stop whining" actually has the tenacity to whine about the negative comments regarding the birth of a boy. Are you suggesting by the "get out of the way" comment that Naruhito should give up his birthright and step aside as future emperor just because his sister in law had a son? Nobody has suggested that you should not show happiness for Kiko on the birth of a healthy baby, everyone is happy about the safe delivery. But are you really so void of any compassion for a sick woman that you would take this opportunity to kick her when she is down? Shame!
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  #195  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
Actually no it's not. If her and Naruhito have another baby and it's a boy, that child will displace Kiko's son as the heir to the throne. So it's not "irrelevant" if they have another child. I don't know if they will, but if the IHA used IVF and genetic screening to insure that Kiko's child was a boy, that won't stop them from doing it to Masako should they say she should have another child.

And of course you don't care if she had problems conceiving. Your ability to feel any pity or sorrow for others is riding on 0 right now.
Well good for them if they have a son. And since you don't know me you can't judge whether or not I feel pity or sorrow for others.
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  #196  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:48 PM
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Yeah, let's put something out here. No one is upset that Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy. We're all thrilled that both mother and child are fine. I think some people are getting the idea that we're unhappy a healthy child has been born.
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  #197  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:49 PM
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Let's lose the personal attacks, please. We should be able to discuss this topic without resorting to criticising other people's characters.

Thank you.

Elspeth

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  #198  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:51 PM
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Congratulations to them and let's just hope for the best for everyone, I suppose. The IHA may have "won" this round, but nothing is for sure until this little prince actually sits on the throne to be emperor. Who knows? With the heat off Masako, she may actually even produce another child and it could be a boy! Now, wouldn't that be an in-your-face situation? :)
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  #199  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Laviollette
Well good for them if they have a son. And since you don't know me you can't judge whether or not I feel pity or sorrow for others.
Edited: based on moderator comments
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  #200  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:54 PM
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Today on Sept. 7, the baby prince will be able to join his mom Princess Kiko and be in the same room together.

Newborn baby joins Princess Kiko
The newborn baby boy of Prince Akishino and Princess Kiko was moved to his mother's room at Aiiku Hospital in Tokyo on Thursday morning after spending the night in the newborn baby unit....The Imperial Household Agency has employed a nurse in her 20s to care of the baby, it said....
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060907/kyodo/d8jvpsug0.html
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