A marriage between Prince Hisahito and Princess Aiko?

[Admiral Horthy]

The obvious solution is to amend the constitution so that Imperial princesses don't have to leave the Imperial family. Remember, this was imposed by the US.

[Furienna]

Originally Posted by ChiaraC

I have read a very intriguing novel about such a case, written by Japanese woman, Hisako Matsubara. I am really fascinated by the fact that she came as an adult to Germany and managed to learn the language so well that she was able to write books in German. She has written several novels, most of them set in recent Japanese history, and I have learnt a lot from them. Two of them have been translated into English, Cranes at Dusk and Samurai, and I´d recommend both. The first deals with a Japanese family the father of which is a Shinto priest. Maybe he is a bit idealized but as the Western image of Shinto is much influenced by the fact that it has been (and, to some extent, still is) abused for political nationalist purposes, I was very glad to get to read something about the fascinating philosophical side of Shinto. The other book, Samurai, is why I am even mentioning Matsubara here. It tells the story of a young man who marries into his wife´s family. His father-in-law, old and rich samurai Hayato, sends him to America, alone, to win back the family honour. The young man has no choice but to go because as an adoptive son, he has no possibility to oppose his adoptive father/father-in-law. But in America, nobody cares for his outstanding law degree... It is a shockingly tragic story, but I think that it brilliantly explores a certain aspect of Japan and the Japanese. (And, btw, it seems to me that I have even read somewhere that a similar story has indeed happened in Matsubara´s family, to her grandfather maybe.)

I've got "Samurai" in the book shelf on my left, but I haven't read it yet.

[Biri]

It's too risky; they are first cousins, too closely related; such a relationship could produce a child with genetic disorder.

[KittyAtlanta]

^^^You won't necessarily have a child with a birth defect, but the chances are higher than if two non-related people have a baby. The chances of defect are about the same for a 41 year old woman giving birth, of which there are plenty around these days.

[Ish]

Kitty, I was about to say the same thing.

The genetic problems of cousins marrying only really comes into play when multiple generations partake in cousin marriage.

[Mirabel]

Is marriage between first cousins legal in Japan?

In most states in the USA, it is prohibited, but I know it is common in many other countries.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Cousin-cousin marriage is allowed in Japan, though the incidence has declined over the decades. The risks are pretty oversee-able.

Aiko's and Hisahito's grandmother Empress Michiko comes from the Shoda family, so "new blood" into the imperial family. Aiko's mother Masako comes from the Owada family, also "new blood" into the imperial family. Hisahito's mother comes from the Kawashima family, another "new blood" into the imperial family. The narrowing of the gene pool is minimal in the case of Hisahito and Aiko.

[Bine221]

I think, it is a Blessing NOT to become the future wife of Hia****o.

Looking at the (cruel) fate of the current Empress Michito (not speaking for years) and CP Masako (Depression) I would wish all the best for Aiko to fall in love in a Man "outside" the Royal Household and marry him.
And getting rid of the horrible "Grey Man"....
BYe Bine

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Bine221

I think, it is a Blessing NOT to become the future wife of Hia****o.

Looking at the (cruel) fate of the current Empress Michito (not speaking for years) and CP Masako (Depression) I would wish all the best for Aiko to fall in love in a Man "outside" the Royal Household and marry him.
And getting rid of the horrible "Grey Man"....
BYe Bine

The only royal whom seems to suffer is (was?) Masako. The other royal ladies seem to cope fairly well with their roles anyway. Princess Kiko seems a very sound and happy-looking lady with self-assurance and charisma. Of course Empress Michiko might have had her own problems adjusting to her role at the imperial court but that is not really new and happened (happens) at all royal and imperial courts.

An advantage of a marriage between Prince Hisahito and Princess Aiko is that the last one knows no better than life under court protocol. No adjustments needed.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The only royal whom seems to suffer is (was?) Masako. The other royal ladies seem to cope fairly well with their roles anyway. Princess Kiko seems a very sound and happy-looking lady with self-assurance and charisma. Of course Empress Michiko might have had her own problems adjusting to her role at the imperial court but that is not really new and happened (happens) at all royal and imperial courts.

An advantage of a marriage between Prince Hisahito and Princess Aiko is that the last one knows no better than life under court protocol. No adjustments needed.

Hasn't Empress Michiko been critically ill several times during her marriage because of stress and bullying? I seem to recall she even lost her ability to speak at one time.


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[Bine221]

Originally Posted by JR76

Hasn't Empress Michiko been critically ill several times during her marriage because of stress and bullying? I seem to recall she even lost her ability to speak at one time.


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I heard the same - she did not speak for several YEARS!
Bye Bine

[Duc_et_Pair]

There are a lot of stories around which have little to do with reality. The mother-in-law of the present Empress, the Empress Kojun, was not at all happy with Michiko. Her opposition might have been extreme depending on who one chooses to believe, but it is all rumors as the Japanese monarchy has always been very good about keeping any private troubles private.

When in 1989 Emperor Hirohito died, the calm and serene life of the crown princely couple abruptly ended. It was an immense responsibility for the couple to undertake and the Court admitted that Empress Michiko was having some health issues related to stress surrounding her new role. In the years since Empress Michiko has shown herself to be a strong lady, adjusting to the demanding imperial life and succeeding brilliantly, becoming a beloved member of the Japanese royal, pardon: imperial family.

[KittyAtlanta]

Originally Posted by Mirabel

Is marriage between first cousins legal in Japan?

In most states in the USA, it is prohibited, but I know it is common in many other countries.

Only 23 states prohibit cousin-cousin marriage. Twenty-seven states do not prohibit.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Bine221

I think, it is a Blessing NOT to become the future wife of Hia****o.

Looking at the (cruel) fate of the current Empress Michito (not speaking for years) and CP Masako (Depression) I would wish all the best for Aiko to fall in love in a Man "outside" the Royal Household and marry him.
And getting rid of the horrible "Grey Man"....
BYe Bine

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta

Only 23 states prohibit cousin-cousin marriage. Twenty-seven states do not prohibit.

I looked it up, and only six states permit first-cousin marriage.

(Although all states recognize the legality of marriages performed in a state that allows it).

[Duc_et_Pair]

The late Prince Claus, who married into a Royal House of one of the most liberal, tolerant and easygoing countries of the world (the Netherlands) suffered severe depressions and practically was out of the running as Consort from 1982 until his death in 2004. The public appearances in between often showed a pain-stricken and burdened gentleman.

So it is nonsense to blame it on the Japanese Court what happened to Princess Masako. Her very own sister-in-law Princess Kiko comes over as a sound, modern and approachable, almost Western-style, lady whom nevertheless finds her way in the Imperial Court. I find it nonsense already to feel sorry for a possible lady who will marry Prince Hisahito. Maybe the Japanese will feel very sorry for a Catherine Middleton who has to endure the -in Japanese eyes- unbearably intrusive media all her life long....

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Mirabel

I looked it up, and only six states permit first-cousin marriage.

(Although all states recognize the legality of marriages performed in a state that allows it).

According to Wikipedia's page Cousin marriage law in the United States, first cousins are allowed to marry in 20 states (with 2 of those being states where it's allowed with exceptions or requirements), is banned with exceptions in 6 states (2 of which it is also a criminal offense), is outright banned in 19 states, and is a criminal offense in the other 5 states. So, the majority technically ban it, but more then a fair share allow it to. Assuming Wikipedia is accurate.

Continuing with Wikipedia's information, they list the majority of countries for which information was available on the issue as allowing marriage between first cousins (they don't have information for most of Africa and a chunk of Asia and Oceania). Most of North America and Europe allow it, all of South Africa, both Australia and New Zealand, a lot of the Middle East, and all of the parts of Africa for which there is information. There are more countries that allow it than don't.

[Mirabel]

Now I'm unsure.

This is the site I was going by:
State Laws Regarding Marriages Between First Cousins

[Ish]

That page says that 6 states allow first cousin marriage with conditions, then lists 20 states that allow first cousin marriage with no conditions.