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  #41  
Old 02-02-2007, 10:50 PM
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All this affair is very complicate, it seems. We must let the whole thing in Japanese people's hand. We don't understand this issue, for we are not Japanese not are living in Japan.

However, I uses to think that things could be easier is humanity would not be so intrincate and susceptible...

Vanesa.
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  #42  
Old 02-03-2007, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
All this affair is very complicate, it seems. We must let the whole thing in Japanese people's hand. We don't understand this issue, for we are not Japanese not are living in Japan.

However, I uses to think that things could be easier is humanity would not be so intrincate and susceptible...

Vanesa.
Personally I think that if Masako is an example of how women are treated then Japan has serious human rights issues and they need to be censured through the United Nations as that is not acceptable in the modern world.
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  #43  
Old 02-03-2007, 02:13 AM
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The more I think about this, the more [honestly] disgusted at the thought I am. First cousins marrying? That's a little too close for comfort. It would be one thing if they were cousins through marriage and have no blood ties to one another. It would be awkward, but doable if there is no viable alternative. However, they share bloodlines. That's just creepy.
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  #44  
Old 02-03-2007, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
The more I think about this, the more [honestly] disgusted at the thought I am. First cousins marrying? That's a little too close for comfort. It would be one thing if they were cousins through marriage and have no blood ties to one another. It would be awkward, but doable if there is no viable alternative. However, they share bloodlines. That's just creepy.
Most royal marriages share bloodlines, exept those with commoners.
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  #45  
Old 02-03-2007, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by lilytornado
Most royal marriages share bloodlines, exept those with commoners.

This is very close bloodlines, though. Their fathers are brothers.
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  #46  
Old 02-06-2007, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus
Yes, In the history of Japan, there are eight empresses. But the problem is... some of them became the empresses when their sons were child. When their sons grew up, these empresses gave up the throne to their sons. The other empresses never get married, when they died, they passed the throne to their brother or cousin.
Throne abdication isn't exclusive to female monarchs. Almost all Japanese monarchs abdicate when their designated heir comes of age. REGARDLESS of gender.

Also, son ruling Empresses ascended the throne AFTER their son dies. They're chosen by the council as the new monarch when the son doesn't have a designated heir.

This was possible because the female is of Imperial blood and very close in kinship to the last Emperor. Like a first cousin, or niece, etc.

And another misconception about ruling Empresses is that they were merely regents. This is false.

A regent will have a retained his/her title.

Examples:

Jingu Kogo was a regent for her infant son when her husband died. Her title was "Kogo", the wife of the sovereign has this title. Empress Michiko has this title.

Shotoku Taishi was regent for Suiko Tenno. Shotoku's title was "Taishi" or "Prince". It's an old rendering of Prince compared to the more modern "Shinno".

The sovereign has the title of "Tenno" or "Heavenly Sovereign". It English it's either translated as "Emperor" or "Empress (ruling)" if it's a female. Suiko Tenno that I've previously mentioned was one (in fact the first) of the eight ruling Empresses. Emperor Akihito has this title.
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  #47  
Old 06-18-2009, 04:10 AM
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Post Royal Cousin Marriage in 12th century Japan

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Originally Posted by Lox View Post
Is this something that might happen in the future?

Maybe this is a stupid thing even to consider, but I'm pretty sure that Hisahito and Aiko would have been forced to marry each other if the year was 1606, not 2006.
Marriage between first cousin DID happened in Japanese Royal Family. It happened sometimes after the year of 1171, between Norihito (Emperor Takakura) and Tokuko (later Kenrei Mon In) from Taira (also called by Heike) clan. Tokuko was 6 years his senior. And she adopted beforehand by Norihito's dad, Emperor Go-Shirakawa. Unique thing about this is, both of them are related by their mothers who are sisters.
The motive is true politic. Because it means a strong joint alliance between Imperial Family and the most ruling & prominent military power at that time. By creating that marriage, both families can enjoyed the mutual advantage of privileges they can get from each other. Since the Shogunate was not yet created, Taira as a Samurai families, no matter how powerfull they are, didn't have the rights & ranks as equal as noble families. So after this marriage, Tokuko's dad, whose the supreme leader of Taira, was eligible to become Prime Minister.

click this: Taira no Tokuko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #48  
Old 03-21-2011, 09:27 PM
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Could that be possible or does cousin marriage really exist in japan? Because aiko marrying a Japanese prince to keep her title is a little hard since the only Japanese princes are her cousins and uncles.
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  #49  
Old 03-23-2011, 05:58 AM
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I don't think it will happen. Cousin marriages were okay back in the day, but not anymore.
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  #50  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:05 PM
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If cousins marrying is legal in Japan then it "could" happen. I have a problem with it personally, but one of my favorite royal couples of all time, Victoria and Albert, were first cousins.
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  #51  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:17 PM
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Genetically, marriages between first cousins isn't dangerous as long as there are a lot of other influences in the gene pool. There are two sets of parents; unlike in the case of brother-and-sister marriages where there's just the one set of parents--and which is also obviously considered incest. It depends on the culture more than anything unless there's an extended family with a lot of intermarriage.
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  #52  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:18 PM
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I highly doubt it.The reasons for that are obvious!
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  #53  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
I highly doubt it.The reasons for that are obvious!

The reasons for it are extremely obvious - it shuts up the people who want Aiko to inherit as she is the daughter of the next Emperor and shuts up those who want a male heir - as long as their first born is a boy then the problem of female inheritance can be put off for another two generations.

First cousin marriages have been common at all levels of society for generations. It is only in more recent centuries where this became less frequent as people came into contact with a broader range of people.
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  #54  
Old 09-18-2011, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The reasons for it are extremely obvious - it shuts up the people who want Aiko to inherit as she is the daughter of the next Emperor and shuts up those who want a male heir - as long as their first born is a boy then the problem of female inheritance can be put off for another two generations.

First cousin marriages have been common at all levels of society for generations. It is only in more recent centuries where this became less frequent as people came into contact with a broader range of people.
Well-said!
Cousin marriage is still widely prevalent in many societies, and it isn't a problem genetically unless the gene pool has been much restricted in the past.

Still, it seems unlikely Aiko will wed Hisahito anyway, the age gap for one thing.
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  #55  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:37 PM
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Age gap? It's 5 freakin years for crying out loud! In 2011 thats not a gap, its a crack. Because of the situation in Japan if Aiko marries anyone else doesn't she end up like her aunt?
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  #56  
Old 10-03-2011, 06:19 AM
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I don't know what the Japanese think about the wife being older than the husband though. It's not such a big deal in the western world anymore, but it still is in some parts of the world, and as far as I know right now, that might include Japan. And how do the Japanese feel about cousin marriages these days? It's totally acceptable, and maybe even recommended, in some countries, but again, I don't know about Japan.

But yes, unless Aiko gets married to Hisahito, she will lose her royal status on her wedding day, just like her aunt did, unless the law has been changed by then.
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  #57  
Old 10-03-2011, 10:10 PM
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What is the reason behind a Japanese Imperial Highness losing her style when she marries? Is it because she's now identified as a member of her husband's family?
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  #58  
Old 10-06-2011, 07:57 PM
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Yes, that would probably be it. Out of our king's four sisters, three of them are technically no longer part of the royal house, even though we still call them princesses, because they didn't marry princes. And the Japanese traditions about this are still very much like what ours were until not that many decades ago.
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  #59  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:46 PM
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Someone, perhaps Al_bina, wrote on a forum that in Asian marriages, the bride is seen to become part of her new family to an extent that she's not expected to have much to do with her birth family anymore. So I think that the tradition there is stronger even than in Europe.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:08 AM
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I do not know exactly about Japan, but I know that in traditional China a married woman was supposed to love and respect her parents-in-law much more than her own parents. That was also one of the reasons why people used to be disappointed about having a daughter. If they had a son, they knew that he and his wife were bound to support them in their old age and to take care of them. In contrast, having a daughter would not help the parents at all because, after marriage, she would have no choice but to spend all her time serving her parents-in-law. Nobody would tolerate her neglecting her duty towards them in order to support her own parents.

In Japan, the name of a daughter who married would be literally obliterated with black brush-strokes from the family´s koseki (family register). I do not know if it is still done with a brush but, in principle, the fact remains. Married couples have to agree to have only one family name on the koseki. That is why a former member of parliament, Hiroko Mizushima, and her husband divorced and remarried several times because they wanted both to keep their names. When they married, Mizushima and her husband, filmmaker Satoshi Hasegawa, officially chose Mizushima as a surname. But because they were determined to use their own names in everyday life, they had to get divorced whenever Hasegawa needed official documents, such as a passport, in his own name. (Bye the way, I find it quite interesting that Mizushima started by being a psychiatrist, working primarily with children and adolescent women suffering eating disorders. By this work and the experience she derived from it, she was inspired to join politics because she felt that the problems of her mentally ill patients went way beyond themselves. "The social system is creating their problems," she said at the time. “With fathers under severe stress at work and mothers resentful after abandoning careers, little wonder that children are unhappy and unable to communicate. She added, "Dealing with these youngsters, I could see no hope for the future of Japan.")

But, in traditional Japan, there has also been the possibility of a husband taking his wife´s name and becoming part of HER family. This could be done when a family had only daughters, to carry on the family line. (And here is the difference between commoners and imperial family in Japan because, as we know, the imperial family cannot do that.)

I have read a very intriguing novel about such a case, written by Japanese woman, Hisako Matsubara. I am really fascinated by the fact that she came as an adult to Germany and managed to learn the language so well that she was able to write books in German. She has written several novels, most of them set in recent Japanese history, and I have learnt a lot from them. Two of them have been translated into English, Cranes at Dusk and Samurai, and I´d recommend both. The first deals with a Japanese family the father of which is a Shinto priest. Maybe he is a bit idealized but as the Western image of Shinto is much influenced by the fact that it has been (and, to some extent, still is) abused for political nationalist purposes, I was very glad to get to read something about the fascinating philosophical side of Shinto. The other book, Samurai, is why I am even mentioning Matsubara here. It tells the story of a young man who marries into his wife´s family. His father-in-law, old and rich samurai Hayato, sends him to America, alone, to win back the family honour. The young man has no choice but to go because as an adoptive son, he has no possibility to oppose his adoptive father/father-in-law. But in America, nobody cares for his outstanding law degree... It is a shockingly tragic story, but I think that it brilliantly explores a certain aspect of Japan and the Japanese. (And, btw, it seems to me that I have even read somewhere that a similar story has indeed happened in Matsubara´s family, to her grandfather maybe.)
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