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  #161  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:17 PM
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Anna Astrids name was announced a few days after her birth but there was the usual Belgian Royal Court kerfuffle about what her title was ,hopefully we'll have the new babys name shortly without a dollop of Belgian Court Confusion.
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  #162  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:57 PM
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I think the confusion over Anna Astrid's name and titles in 2016 was the outcome of misunderstandings by royal reporters in addition to announcements from the Royal Court which were accurate but incomplete.

On one hand, the announcements that were direct quotes from the Court were clear that the baby would use the title Princess Anna Astrid.

The royal family’s newest member will enjoy the title of princess – but, for dynastic reasons, she will not be a Princess of Belgium, the palace spokesman confirms to PEOPLE.

“It’s entirely possible that she may assume other titles in due course,” according to the spokesman, who confirms that the young family will live in Brussels.

Princess Anna Astrid: Brussels Prince Amedeo and Elisabetta Welcome Baby | PEOPLE.com

OFFICIEL Le bébé du Prince et de la Princesse Amedeo de Belgique est la Princesse Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe

(Translation: OFFICIAL The baby of Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium is Princess Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe)

http://twitter.com/RTLPlaceRoyale/st...64995834245120

(Place Royale used the term "Officiel" to mark information received directly from the Court.)

On the other hand, the Court's statements did not include any information on what the baby's surname and "other titles" would be, and Place Royale wrongly referred to her as a Princess "of Saxe-Coburg". The text of her birth certificate, which clarified her complete name and titles, was not made public until summer 2016. (ETA: Corrected the broken link.)
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  #163  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:34 AM
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Prince Amedeo with his family present the new baby boy Maximilian!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEP0RCLW...g&name=900x900


https://www.instagram.com/p/B2TYgLHI6Ct/
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  #164  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:34 AM
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His name is Maximilian. Announcment and first pic

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2TYgLHI...ource=ig_embed
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  #165  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:21 AM
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Beautiful baby. Happy to see Anna Astrid as well.
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  #166  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:18 AM
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I like the name. I'm glad you released a photo of the baby.
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  #167  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:15 AM
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I hope King Albert II and Queen Paola came back from their eternal holidays we pay for!
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  #168  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
I hope King Albert II and Queen Paola came back from their eternal holidays we pay for!
What exactly has this to do with their grandson’s family? It seems to be a very inappropriate comment for this thread.
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  #169  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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I understand they are prinses/la princesse Anna Astrid and prins/le prince Maximilian without furtherer designation (van België/de Belgique) or form of address (HRH or HH). But of course both still are Ihre Kaiserliche und Königliche Hoheit Erzherzogin / Erzherzog von Österreich-Este, Königl. Prinzessin / Prinz von Ungarn etc.
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  #170  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:12 AM
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Pardon my ignorance, I'm not very good with Belgian or Austria titles:

So Lili, Anna Astrid & Maximilian can be called "Prince(ss)", due to their other titles from the Austrian heritage, but not "Prince(ss) of Belgium" as that has to be created by decree?
Thus they are formally Archduke/Archduchess of Austria-Este?
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  #171  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:24 AM
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Wonderful name ! They chose very well !
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  #172  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:35 AM
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Beatiful name, very "Habsburgian"
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  #173  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:38 AM
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I know this may sound absurd, considering that she is 3 years old, but I think that Anna Astrid looks aristocratic
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  #174  
Old 09-12-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lallettac View Post
I know this may sound absurd, considering that she is 3 years old, but I think that Anna Astrid looks aristocratic
I thought the same thing. She reminds me of Crown Prince Otto at his parents' Hungarian coronation.
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  #175  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carina_a View Post
Pardon my ignorance, I'm not very good with Belgian or Austria titles:

So Lili, Anna Astrid & Maximilian can be called "Prince(ss)", due to their other titles from the Austrian heritage, but not "Prince(ss) of Belgium" as that has to be created by decree?
Thus they are formally Archduke/Archduchess of Austria-Este?

Lili is legally Mrs. Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein. This was her title and name in the decree with which she and Prince Amedeo were retroactively granted authorization to marry.

12 November 2015. - Koninklijk besluit houdende instemming met het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Amedeo, Prins van België, met Mevrouw Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein

Enig artikel. Instemming wordt verleend met het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Amedeo, Prins van België, met Mevrouw Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, voltrokken op 5 juli 2014.

Translation:

Sole article. Consent is granted to the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo, Prince of Belgium, to Mrs. Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, concluded on 5 July 2014.

However, the Palace refers to her with two courtesy styles:

1. Princess Amedeo of Belgium
2. Princess Elisabetta, without the designation "of Belgium"

For instance, she and her husband were Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium in the announcement of their daughter's name (see below), whereas they were Prince Amedeo and Princess Elisabetta without the "of Belgium" in the announcement of their son's birth.



The Palace refers to their daughter as Princess Anna Astrid, likewise without the designation "of Belgium".

From another thread, here are the announcements on her title which came from the Palace:

- A palace spokesman confirmed that she would enjoy the title of princess.
"The royal family’s newest member will enjoy the title of princess – but, for dynastic reasons, she will not be a Princess of Belgium, the palace spokesman confirms to PEOPLE.

“It’s entirely possible that she may assume other titles in due course,” according to the spokesman, who confirms that the young family will live in Brussels."

Princess Anna Astrid: Brussels Prince Amedeo and Elisabetta Welcome Baby | PEOPLE.com

- The Palace communicated that she was "Princess Anna Astrid" to Le Carnet Mondain, the yearbook of noble and distinguished Belgian families.
"Par contre, la petite Anna Astrid n'a ni titre ni nom dans « Le carnet mondain », étant simplement renseigné comme « la princesse Anna Astrid » . Preuve de l'existence d'un royal problème ? Sachant, comme le précise le volumineux ouvrage mondain, que « les informations concernant la famille royale de belgique sont reproduites tellse qu'elles nous sont communiquées par le Palais »."

Translation:

"In contrast, the little Anna Astrid has neither title nor surname in "Le carnet mondain", being listed as "the princess Anna Astrid". Proof of the existence of a royal problem? Knowing the bulky work specifies that "information concerning the royal family of Belgium is reproduced from that which was communicated to us by the Palace"."

La famille royale s'appelle à nouveau de Saxe-Cobourg

- The Palace communicated the same information to Place Royale. (Place Royale uses the term "Officiel" to describe information given from the Palace.)
"OFFICIEL Le bébé du Prince et de la Princesse Amedeo de Belgique est la Princesse Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe"

Translation:

"OFFICIAL The baby of Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium is Princess Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe

http://twitter.com/RTLPlaceRoyale/st...64995834245120

- Letters from the household of Princess Astrid (one in English is pictured in the photograph here) styled her granddaughter as Princess Anna Astrid.
"Their Royal Highnesses Princess Astrid, Prince Lorenz, Prince Amedeo and Princess Elisabetta thank you for the kind wishes you have sent on the occasion of the first birthday of our little sunshine Princess Anna Astrid.

Jan Matthysen
Ambassador (ret.)
Advisor to Princess Astrid"


On her Belgian birth certificate, her formal names and titles are HI&RH Princess Anna Astrid Marie, Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine).
"A la rubrique « nom et prénoms », son acte de naissance porte en effet, comme nous avons pu le voir : « Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine) »."

Translation:

"In the column 'surname and given names', her birth certificate uses, as a matter of fact, as we were able to see it: 'Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)'."

Quel nom pour les princes qui ne seront plus «de Belgique»?


On whether Anna Astrid is a princess due to her Austrian titles/lineage or her Belgian lineage: I am not sure of the answer to this question, but my guess is that it is due to her lineage from King Leopold I of Belgium.

Firstly, because Lorenz was recognized in Belgium only as an Archduke, not a Prince, before he was created a Prince of Belgium.

Secondly, because article 4 of the Royal Decree of November 12, 2015 mentions Princes and Princesses who are not "of Belgium" and are born in direct descent from King Leopold I.

12 November 2015. - Koninklijk besluit betreffende de verlening van de titel van Prins of Prinses van België

Translation:

Article 1. In the public and private acts relating to them, the Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in direct descendance from the King as well as the Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in direct descendance from the Crown Prince or the Crown Princess carry the title of Prince or of Princess of Belgium following their first name and, so far as they carry them, their family name and their dynastic title and ahead of the other titles to which their ancestry gives them the right. Their first name is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.

Article 2. In the public and private acts relating to them, the Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in direct descendance from His Majesty King Albert II carry the title of Prince or of Princess of Belgium following their first name, and, so far as they carry them, their family name and their dynastic title and ahead of the other titles to which their ancestry gives them the right. Their first name is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.

Article 3. The Princes and the Princesses who already carry the title of Prince or of Princess of Belgium pursuant to the Royal Decree of 14 March 1891 qualifying the Princes and Princesses born in direct male descendance from His late Majesty Leopold I to be Princes and Princesses of Belgium retain this title following their first name and, so far as they carry it, their family name and before the other titles to which their ancestry gives them the right. Their first name is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.

Article 4. The Princes and Princesses, born in direct descendance from His Majesty Leopold, George, Christian, Frederick of Saxe-Coburg, who are not covered by Articles 1 to 3, carry following their first name and, so far as they carry it, their family name, the titles to which their ancestry gives them the right.
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  #176  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:29 AM
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Maximilian is pretty much a Habsburg name. Does anybody know if the baby's name is only Maximilian? Archduchess Anna Astrid is also just Anna Astrid. Amedeo has pretty much a long name.
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  #177  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:04 PM
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See the post above yours: Anna Astrid was named Princess Anna Astrid Marie in her birth certificate, although only the first two names are normally used.
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  #178  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:18 PM
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Based on the royal decree of 2015, I believe Prince Amedeo’s children should be styled:

Prince/Princess [Given Names] of Habsburg-Lothringen, Archduke/Archduchess of Austria-Este

But without the designation “Prince/Princess of Belgium” following their given names and family name, and without the predicate HRH before Prince/Princess.

Apparently the predicate HI&RH was used in Anna Astrid’s birth certificate, but I don’t find any legal basis for that.
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  #179  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Based on the royal decree of 2015, I believe Prince Amedeo’s children should be styled:

Prince/Princess [,Given Names] of Habsburg-Lothringen, Archduke/Archduchess of Austria-Este

But without the designation “Prince/Princess of Belgium” following their given names and family name and without the predicate HRH before Prince/Princess.

Apparently the predicate HI&RH was used in Anna Astrid’s birth certificate, but I don’t find any legal basis for that.
That would be logical indeed but there is no title "prince(sse) de Habsbourg-Lorraine". It is the name of the dynasty. I wish the Belgians had be more clear indeed. But the Norwegians did the same to Prince Sverre Magnus (without any furtherer designation).
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  #180  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That would be logical indeed but there is no title "prince(sse) de Habsbourg-Lorraine". It is the name of the dynasty. I wish the Belgians had be more clear indeed. But the Norwegians did the same to Prince Sverre Magnus (without any furtherer designation).
Mbruno was saying that in his opinion, "of Habsburg-Lorraine" should have been used as a family name (not a title) for the children of Prince Amedeo, following their first names. According to the 2015 decree, Princes and Princesses in direct line of descent from King Leopold I are able to (but do not need to) use a family name between their first name and their ancestral titles.
Article 4. The Princes and Princesses, born in direct descendance from His Majesty Leopold, George, Christian, Frederick of Saxe-Coburg, who are not covered by Articles 1 to 3, carry following their first name and, so far as they carry it, their family name, the titles to which their ancestry gives them the right.

Compare it to the way in which Princess Claire was styled in the state paper of the Belgian government: Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
Prinses Claire Coombs, Prinses van België
There is no such title as Princess Coombs, but Claire was formally styled "Princess Claire Coombs, Princess of Belgium" due to Coombs being her family name.


With Princess Anna Astrid, however, "Habsburg-Lorraine" was shown in parentheses following her archducal title, rather than preceding it.

"A la rubrique « nom et prénoms », son acte de naissance porte en effet, comme nous avons pu le voir : « Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine) »."

"In the column 'surname and given names', her birth certificate uses, as a matter of fact, as we were able to see it: 'Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)'."

Quel nom pour les princes qui ne seront plus «de Belgique»?
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