Prince Laurent, Princess Claire & Family - News & Events, Part 6; Dec 2016 - Aug 2023


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Well if he hates the obligations so much he could surely renounce his titles and rights to succession and go make his own way in the world, couldn't he?

In regards to medical expenses etc I imagine the RF get a better deal than most other citizens or they would by now surely have secured at least the minimum rights every other citizen has, his sister doesn't seem to have the same complaint.

All that was asked of Laurent was he asks permission before making visits overseas and engaging with foreign governments / officials. That's not much in return for a six figure allowance,IMO he didn't comply so should face the punishment of a reduced allowance.
 
Somebody said:
I don't think he needs to pay for his medical expenses out of his own pocket. Not sure how these things are organized for the royal family but if things are arranged differently for the BRF than for ordinary Belgians I assume that is because they have a better deal...

And indeed, the requirements for him are minimal. He mainly thinks his offense was minimal but he indeed has shown to continuously ignore pretty basic instructions on 'inform the government of meetings with foreign dignitaries'.
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I fully agree:flowers:
 
Somebody said:
His letter is quite interesting. He acknowledges that others might be in a harder position but he states that he is the only one whose family has frustrated all his efforts. He complains that his whole life was in service of his brother, his family and the state (which I partly understand but he could have worded it differently).

Furthermore, he mentions opposition against his marriage to Claire because she is untitled (was there indeed a lot of opposition? I don't recall but it could very well be the case - although I don't see how that is relevant in this case) and that he doesn't receive the normal social security that all other Belgians enjoy (as if he would not be taken care of in case of disability or health issues).

He promises that he will fight against this sanction with all his might because to him it feels as if he is completely controlled by government. Any misstep by him could result in a significant loss of income. He doesn't want that prospect for the rest of his life. He therefore urged parliament to work on a better law regulating the Royal House.
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Additionally, he faults the media for narrating his mistakes.

Actually, I wonder if his statement that his wife "has neither title nor fortune" is expressing his opinion that he and his family are in higher need of a state income than Princess Astrid and her family because she married somebody titled and wealthy.


tommy100 said:
Well if he hates the obligations so much he could surely renounce his titles and rights to succession and go make his own way in the world, couldn't he?

In regards to medical expenses etc I imagine the RF get a better deal than most other citizens or they would by now surely have secured at least the minimum rights every other citizen has, his sister doesn't seem to have the same complaint.

All that was asked of Laurent was he asks permission before making visits overseas and engaging with foreign governments / officials. That's not much in return for a six figure allowance,IMO he didn't comply so should face the punishment of a reduced allowance.
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The prince would not even have to renounce his titles or succession rights. Only his state funds, because only the members of the royal family who receive a state income must meet the requirements.

Art. 11. Les membres de la Famille royale qui bénéficient d'une dotation visée à l'article 3, respectent les règles visées au chapitre 4.
En cas de manquement à ces dispositions, le gouvernement peut, après avoir entendu la personne intéressée, proposer à la Chambre des représentants de procéder à une retenue sur la dotation visée à l'article 3 qui lui est attribuée.

Art. 11. De leden van de Koninklijke Familie die een in artikel 3 bedoelde dotatie genieten, houden zich aan de in hoofdstuk 4 bedoelde regels. Indien deze bepalingen niet worden nageleefd, kan de regering nadat ze de betrokkene heeft gehoord, aan de Kamer van volksvertegenwoordigers voorstellen om over te gaan tot een inhouding op de in artikel 3 bedoelde dotatie die hem of haar is toegekend.

Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
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tommy100 said:
Well if he hates the obligations so much he could surely renounce his titles and rights to succession and go make his own way in the world, couldn't he?
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I don't think there is any provision in the Belgian constitution for renunciation of succession rights. Currently, a person can be removed by law from the line of succession in the United Kingdom, in the Netherlands and in Spain, but, in Belgium, my understanding is that the only way to take away the succession rights of a legitimate and direct descendant of King Leopold I, other than a marriage without royal consent, would be by amending the constitution.

Somebody said:
His letter is quite interesting. He acknowledges that others might be in a harder position but he states that he is the only one whose family has frustrated all his efforts. He complains that his whole life was in service of his brother, his family and the state (which I partly understand but he could have worded it differently).

Furthermore, he mentions opposition against his marriage to Claire because she is untitled (was there indeed a lot of opposition? I don't recall but it could very well be the case - although I don't see how that is relevant in this case) and that he doesn't receive the normal social security that all other Belgians enjoy (as if he would not be taken care of in case of disability or health issues).
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If I understood it correctly, he didn't explicitly say there was opposition (within the Royal Family or elsewhere) to his marriage with Claire, but rather that, to this day, he is still paying a price (or something like that) for having married a woman whom he loved, but had no title or fortune. That is indeed intriguing as it is his statement that, as a member of the Royal Family, he doesn't have access to public health care, a pension, or other social rights that are extended to ordinary Belgian citizens. A little more context from more knowledgeable Benelux posters would be appreciated.
 
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Mbruno said:
[...]
If I understood it correctly, he didn't explicitly say there was opposition (within the Royal Family or elsewhere) to his marriage with Claire, but rather that, to this day, he is still paying a price (or something like that) for having married a woman whom he loved, but had no title or fortune. [...]
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No one understands this statement as it is generally perceived that exactly Claire is the chouchou* of Queen Paola.

* = darling
 
I feel so sorry such as a lot of Belgians. My newspaper tittled " le fils Prodigue"
What will happen now . We have to help him fo find an honorable Role in what he likes.

Bad letter because e.a. his best support is his wife Claire. She was a communor and not a Heiress but what a great Lady.
 
Muhler said:
Belgian MPs vote to cut wayward prince's £270,000 allowance | Daily Mail Online

I noticed this when going through the DK papers this morning, but now I won't have to summarize in English. ;)
Any comments from those more in the know than I am?
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I don't think I know more than you do (or more than what has already been posted in this forum), but I would like to comment anyway.

Personally, I tend to side with the opinion that only the monarch and the heir (and, if applicable, a former monarch upon abdication) should get direct state funding. At the same time, however, other members of the Royal Family who are not covered by the state grant should be free to have their own careers in the private sector and be reimbursed by the state when performing official duties on behalf of the monarch.

Laurent has a point when he says that, by accepting to be a full-time working royal and receive a state grant, he gave up the opportunity of a career in the private sector. The claim that he could give up his grant now and start a new career in his 50s with a wife and three kids, and no tangible assets of his own, is IMHO unrealistic, if not desingeneous. On the other hand, the Belgian government and the House of Representatives have a valid point, however, that the law on the civil list is quite explicit in terms of stating that the person who receives the dotation is required to comply with certain rules and that the failure to do so implies the possibility of a reduction in the amount paid to the beneficiary.

Unlike the Windsors or the Orange-Nassaus, who are publicly known to be privately wealthy, we actually know very little about the personal finances of the Belgian Coburgs. What we do know is that most of King Leopold II's personal fortune was transferred to public trusts: his real estate assets are now part of the Donation Royale, whereas art, furniture and other movable assets are mostly in the Royal Collection. The RF still has the right of disposal to many of those assets, which ensures them a quite comfortable life, but, other than that, they don't have many sources of disposable income. The Donation Royale e.g. has a revenue from leased land/real estate that is not reserved for RF use, but that revenue goes entirely to the trust and doesn't go back to the RF as in the case of the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall or the Crown Estate in the UK. On top of that, unlike other RFs, the Belgian royals also have to pay taxes, including income tax and inheritance taxes.


My understanding then is that, comparatively, the Belgian royals are far more dependent on the civil list for their maintenance than their counterparts in the UK, the Netherlands, or even Sweden, who have other sources of income from real estate rentals/leases, capital gains, trust funds, etc. That makes the issue of cutting down Laurent's grant far more sensitive on a personal level than it would be for another wealthier prince in another country.
 
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Yesterday in Belgian media there was a list of royals who simply work for their money. From Prince Constantijn to Archduke Amedeo, from the Earl of Snowdon to the Infanta Doña Cristina. No one of them gets any allowance at all.
 
It seems likely that there would be no dearth of employers who would be gratified to recruit a royal prince, brother of the king. As regards Princess Claire, she does not receive state funding and is thereby free to return to work to support her husband and children.

Mbruno said:
I don't think there is any provision in the Belgian constitution for renunciation of succession rights.
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Agreed, but nor is there a provision prohibiting renunciations of dynastic rights. In view of the king and prime minister violating the constitution (Article 85, third paragraph) by reinstating Prince Amedeo in 2015 without consent given by the two houses of parliament, a similar process would probably be arranged if the king and prime minister reached an agreement with a member of the royal family to renounce his or her rights of succession.


Mbruno said:
If I understood it correctly, he didn't explicitly say there was opposition (within the Royal Family or elsewhere) to his marriage with Claire, but rather that, to this day, he is still paying a price (or something like that) for having married a woman whom he loved, but had no title or fortune.
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Duc_et_Pair said:
No one understands this statement as it is generally perceived that exactly Claire is the chouchou* of Queen Paola.

* = darling
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As I yesterday said, I wonder if Prince Laurent is intimating that other members of the royal family are beneficiaries of their spouses' family fortunes and titles, which Claire's family lacks.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Agreed, but nor is there a provision prohibiting renunciations of dynastic rights. In view of the king and prime minister violating the constitution (Article 85, third paragraph) by reinstating Prince Amedeo in 2015 without consent given by the two houses of parliament, a similar process would probably be arranged if the king and prime minister reached an agreement with a member of the royal family to renounce his or her rights of succession.
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I don't see how. Laurent can of course renounce his succession rights, but his renunciation won't have any legal effect unless the constitution is amended solely to exclude him. Unlike in the UK, Spain, or the Netherlands, the Belgian legislators cannot change the line of succession by an act of parliament.

In the case of Prince Amedeo's marriage, the Belgian PM actually provided an excuse for the delayed royal decree. He claimed that, at the time of Prince Amedeo's wedding, Belgium had a caretaker government, which could not countersign any royal decree. I don't personally buy that excuse and agree that the King and the government violated the constitution when they reinstated Amedeo in the line of succession without a vote in parliament, but I don't think that "mistake" has any plausible relation to Laurent's situation.

In any case, the Parliament can, however, cut Laurent's grant, or even terminate it altogether, without Laurent having to give up any succession rights, so I don't see why that question would even need to be considered. Laurent is already 12th in the line of succession and, with nine nephews and nieces ahead of him, who will probably have several children of their own, it is highly improbable that Laurent will ever be in a position to inherit the throne.



As I yesterday said, I wonder if Prince Laurent is intimating that other members of the royal family are beneficiaries of their spouses' family fortunes and titles, which Claire's family lacks.
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I wonder who he would be referring to. Mathilde's family, although titled, is not particularly wealthy as far as I know, and her family's "fortune" is split among Mathilde and her siblings anyway. Apparently, Queen Fabiola's family was quite wealthy, but she didn't have any children and nobody knows exactly who inherited her estate. As Duc et Pair pointed out recently, contrary to previous reports, it looks like her family in Spain did inherit some of her Spanish assets, or got hold of them while Fabiola was still alive.

I don't know about Queen Paola's family, but they don't look particularly wealthy either. Maybe Laurent was thinking of Lorenz, who has a career as a banker and a consultant, and has always earned his own money irrespective of his family name and titles.
 
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Mbruno said:
I don't see how. Laurent can of course renounce his succession rights, but his renunciation won't have any legal effect unless the constitution is amended solely to exclude him. Unlike in the UK, Spain, or the Netherlands, the Belgian legislators cannot change the line of succession by an act of parliament.

In the case of Prince Amedeo's marriage, the Belgian PM actually provided an excuse for the delayed royal decree. He claimed that, at the time of Prince Amedeo's wedding, Belgium had a caretaker government, which could not countersign any royal decree. I don't personally buy that excuse and agree that the King and the government violated the constitution when they reinstated Amedeo in the line of succession without a vote in parliament, but I don't think that "mistake" has any plausible relation to Laurent's situation.

In any case, the Parliament can, however, cut Laurent's grant, or even terminate it altogether, without Laurent having to give up any succession rights, so I don't see why that question would even need to be considered. Laurent is already 12th in the line of succession and, with nine nephews and nieces ahead of him, who will probably have several children of their own, it is highly improbable that Laurent will ever be in a position to inherit the throne.



I wonder who he would be referring to. Mathilde's family, although titled, is not particularly wealthy as far as I know, and her family's "fortune" is split among Mathilde and her siblings anyway. Apparently, Queen Fabiola's family was quite wealthy, but she didn't have any children and nobody knows exactly who inherited her estate. As Duc et Pair pointed out recently, contrary to previous reports, it looks like her family in Spain did inherit some of her Spanish assets, or got hold of them while Fabiola was still alive.

I don't know about Queen Paola's family, but they don't look particularly wealthy either. Maybe Laurent was thinking of Lorenz, who has a career as a banker and a consultant, and has always earned his own money irrespective of his family name and titles.
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That would be quite sad if he is aiming his comment at Lorenz and Astrid as she has always seemed the one trying to bring the family together and always seems to have been loyal to both her brothers.

Laurent needs to realise if he wants to continue to receive his allowance he needs to follow the rules. I think it entirely right he and Astrid still receive their allowances, even when its been decided in the future only the King/Queen and heir will receive an allowance. They were given an allowance for so long it would be unfair to expect them to go out and magically find a job now, that said he still needs to follow the rules set out. And I see no reason Claire couldn't go out and work if they need more income.
 
Twins are visibly non-identical! Which one is which one?
 
Biri said:
Twins are visibly non-identical! Which one is which one?
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On this picture the one on the left is Nicolas and the one in the middle one Aymeric. Or, the taller one with the rounder (and nowadays longer; more oval) face is Aymeric and the shorter one with slightly more angular features is Nicolas.

At least, that's what I always have thought it to be ;)
 
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Prince Laurent is losing his marbles yet again. This time in an interview with Het Nieuwsblad, where he compares his situation with that of the victims of the holocaust.

In the interview he says that he had enough of the constant attacks that he faces. He says that he is being attacked solely because he is the son or brother of the king: "this has to stop".

He stated an ultimatum to the NV-A MP Peter Buysrogge. Buysrogge has until today to offer his apologies, otherwise the prince will sue him for slander. Last month the MP accused the prince of fraud. The prince says: "I don't deserve this. I am sick that after fifty years people describe me as evil".


He continues: "When such a thing happens to me, I often have to think about the Jews who were shot just because they were Jewish. How is it still possible in this world that people accuse somebody because he belongs to a group of people or family? It starts with bullying and ends in hatred."

And it get's worse: "Think about all those children that commit murder [M: in American schools]. Think about all the Jews that were killed. Think about every person that was killed because they belonged to a minority".

The prince says that he has been hindered by his background for years: "I have had problems at school because I was a member of the Royal Family. I never asked for it, never." He also says that he has had a lot of bad experiences: "People on the street sometimes tell me that I am stealing from the state. That is an image that sticks to me. I have often asked politicians, also of the Vlaams Belang (M: Flemish fascist party) why they paint me so negatively, without knowing me. They tell me that they think that I am sympathetic but that my family is not."

Original article (behind paywall):
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180620_03572933

Verongelijkte prins Laurent vergelijkt zich met holocaustslachtoffer - Royalty Online


Tja… what to say. He is erratic and should be protected against himself. His poor-me remarks seem especially weltfremd. But he is not completely wrong. His last remarks have a point: he is the weakest link of the family and therefor an easy target for the press and politicians who want to harm the family.


If anything I feel sorry for him. Considering the complete lack of self reflection I am not sure if he is on the road to recovery from his depression.
 
Marengo said:
Prince Laurent is losing his marbles yet again. This time in an interview with Het Nieuwsblad, where he compares his situation with that of the victims of the holocaust.

In the interview he says that he had enough of the constant attacks that he faces. He says that he is being attacked solely because he is the son or brother of the king: "this has to stop".

He stated an ultimatum to the NV-A MP Peter Buysrogge. Buysrogge has until today to offer his apologies, otherwise the prince will sue him for slander. Last month the MP accused the prince of fraud. The prince says: "I don't deserve this. I am sick that after fifty years people describe me as evil".


He continues: "When such a thing happens to me, I often have to think about the Jews who were shot just because they were Jewish. How is it still possible in this world that people accuse somebody because he belongs to a group of people or family? It starts with bullying and ends in hatred."

And it get's worse: "Think about all those children that commit murder [M: in American schools]. Think about all the Jews that were killed. Think about every person that was killed because they belonged to a minority".

The prince says that he has been hindered by his background for years: "I have had problems at school because I was a member of the Royal Family. I never asked for it, never." He also says that he has had a lot of bad experiences: "People on the street sometimes tell me that I am stealing from the state. That is an image that sticks to me. I have often asked politicians, also of the Vlaams Belang (M: Flemish fascist party) why they paint me so negatively, without knowing me. They tell me that they think that I am sympathetic but that my family is not."

Original article (behind paywall):
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180620_03572933

Verongelijkte prins Laurent vergelijkt zich met holocaustslachtoffer - Royalty Online


Tja… what to say. He is erratic and should be protected against himself. His poor-me remarks seem especially weltfremd. But he is not completely wrong. His last remarks have a point: he is the weakest link of the family and therefor an easy target for the press and politicians who want to harm the family.


If anything I feel sorry for him. Considering the complete lack of self reflection I am not sure if he is on the road to recovery from his depression.
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Comparing himself to victims of the Holocaust or victims of school shootings in the US is obviously completely out of line. Having said that, he has a point when he says that he is attacked by republicans and separatists because they want to attack the Royal Family as an institution and, within the Royal Family, Laurent is the weakest link or the easiest target. The thing is though that his vulnerability was caused by his own erratic behavior and unwise decisions in the past, so the prince himself is not totally without blame as he claims.
 
I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for him he acts like a spoiled brat and this latest embarrassing self indulgent rant makes me think he has indeed lost the plot.
 
In the Netherlands we have a TV program in which a "rich" family "exchanges for a week with a" poor "family, maybe he can join in, but preferably for a month or longer.
Although I actually feel sorry then for his wife and children.

Then, against Laurent, I would say man grow up, become a grown adult.
Against the press and so on, I would say, ignore this man for at least a year.

Again, I pity his wife and children.
 
I want to feel sorry for Laurent, but his "woe is me" attitude is making it difficult for me especially now that he has made the utterly ridiculous comparison between himself and victims of the Holocaust and American school shootings. I guess he used extreme examples to emphasise a point, but it's still a ridiculous comparison - his situation is nowhere near as tragic as their situations were. Whilst I don't doubt that Laurent is struggling with this (a point which he has made very clear!), he is just "feeding the trolls" if he continues to make statements like this in public. The press will see him as a vulnerable target who is easy to get a reaction out of, and will most likely make even more frequent negative and sartorial articles about him. It's hard but it would be best for him not to read anything about him in the media.
 
Prince Laurent appeals against his subsidy reduction (-48,000 euros). His lawyer make an announcement hours after King Philippe speech. But tomorrow Prince Laurent will be there and take part to the National Day celebrations.

"After careful consideration of the institutional and legal tangle of the situation, HRH Prince Laurent of Belgium has decided to make an appeal for annulment against the sanction imposed on him", says Laurent Arnauts, Prince Laurent's lawyer.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/0...oep-tegen-sanctie-die-regering-hem-heeft-opg/
 
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Interesting timing... I am sure the king doesn't appreciate his brother bringing bad publicity the week he celebrates being on the throne for 5 years.
 
Laurent is another one of those with a "woe is me" outlook on life that makes it hard for me and others to sympathise with him.
I've got to wonder if he timed this purposefully so that it would coincide with national day and Philippe's regnal anniversary :whistling:
 
HereditaryPrincess said:
Laurent is another one of those with a "woe is me" outlook on life that makes it hard for me and others to sympathise with him.
I've got to wonder if he timed this purposefully so that it would coincide with national day and Philippe's regnal anniversary :whistling:
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I've got to wonder if he timed this purposefully so that it would coincide with national day and Philippe's regnal anniversary

Of course !
 
One hour film on RTL about Prince Laurent.
As he had to learn Dutch , he went to Zevekerke in Flanders. He left the school and was seen alone on the road wanting to go home. In his School in Antwerpen he wanted to be known as Laurent de Belgique instead as Laurent of Belgie

How is he a changing man. He has unexpected attitudes from charming to naughty.

This will happen during all his life ex. his annoucement yesterday !
 
Prince Laurent will be guest speaker at SpeakersGent. A platform where every Gentenaar can come and say his thoughts. Every first Sunday of the month on Sunday 2 September.
 
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