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  #141  
Old 04-04-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I think this shows perhaps the way Albert & Paola treated their son only made things worse. Cutting him off and banishing him from the Royal Palace probably just made him see no reason to comply.
However Philippe has brought his brother in from the cold perhaps giving him more of a reason to want to behave more appropriately.
They had no any other option than publicly dismissing the Prince. Prince Laurent publicly damaged his father, the King, by his irresponsible actions. He publicly damaged the Prime Minister, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Belgian Cabinet by ignoring their strict -and formally written- wishes. There was an outrage in Belgian media, both the Dutch-speaking as well the French-speaking media united in their rejection. The Prime Minister was summoned to appear in Parliament and hear sharp questions about Prince Laurent. This was just one in a long string of faux-pas by the Prince. Another notable one was to renovate, decorate and refurbish Villa Clémentine (the residence of the Prince) illegally using financial funds from the Belgian Navy. This affair caused an outrage in Belgian media but there was no "smoking gun" proving that the Prince knew about fraud by the Belgian Navy (a dozen naval officers used the naval administration to falsify invoices and orders. Houses were build or renovated, luxury products were ordered and all filed under maintenance costs for the Belgian Navy).

Banning the Prince from the Royal Palace (which is not the same as banning from private domains as the Château du Belvédère, the residence of King Albert and Queen Paola) was the minimal option for the King. It could have been worse, like formally excluding the Prince from the Royal House, or the Belgian Parliament voting to stop his annual dotation. All by all it was -again- an escape for Prince Laurent.
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  #142  
Old 04-04-2014, 01:12 PM
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Sorry my point was that their attitude towards him was to cut him off, to denounce him each time rather than to give him a meaningful role and set of responsibilities. I accept Laurent was wrong to visit Congo and I said so at the time but IMO I doubt he would have done so if his parents had behaved better to him in the past.
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  #143  
Old 04-04-2014, 02:25 PM
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I think it is just Prince Laurent's own character. After all his two siblings experienced the same poor marriage, the internal divisions and the rifts. Philippe and Astrid are perfectly normal functioning persons. Of course Prince Philippe had an exceptional position but I doubt there was reason for Prince Laurent to envy him. All media attention and all pressure was on Philippe. Laurent and his sister Astrid could (and can) enjoy a good life in shadow of the royal limelight. It is just his character. I wish him all the best and a good recovery.
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  #144  
Old 04-04-2014, 02:29 PM
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Hopefully I am not veering off the topic too much

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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
... [snipped] That Albert and Paola are not able to come to terms with their abdication is not an argument against an abdication. As others said: many other abdicated monarchs did not cause problems. Some heirs, who are wasting the best part of their lives waiting, have caused problems too.
Why do not King Albert and Queen Paola come to terms with the abdication? Does it mean that King Albert was forced to retire? Obviously Prince Laurent's illness brought internal struggles and discontent within the Belgian royal family to light.
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  #145  
Old 04-04-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Why do not King Albert and Queen Paola come to terms with the abdication? Does it mean that King Albert was forced to retire? Obviously Prince Laurent's illness brought internal struggles and discontent within the Belgian royal family to light.
I don't think there was any question of King Albert having been forced to abdicate.
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  #146  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Why do not King Albert and Queen Paola come to terms with the abdication? Does it mean that King Albert was forced to retire? Obviously Prince Laurent's illness brought internal struggles and discontent within the Belgian royal family to light.
Problems about Laurent's behaviour are complicated to analyse and date back to many years.
I guess Albert first considered Laurent was trying to draw attention to his unsatisfaction, and did not think he and Paola had to go back to Brussels and visit him. When it appeared that the problem was quite serious I guess they had discussions and Albert remained difficult to convince. The letter of Paola, although understandable, is a mistake from a communication point of view. Their spokesmand did the mistake of accepting to publish is without (sorry for the mistake previously) the consent of king Philippe.
The spokesman had already been criticised for the way the request of extra money had been dealt with. This is by far too much. I think king Philippe is right in re-stating the rules.
King Albert has not been forced to abdicate!! He seems now however to have difficulties in accepting the rules about his new situation, of "former king".
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  #147  
Old 04-04-2014, 06:13 PM
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Problems about Laurent's behaviour are complicated to analyse and date back to many years.
I guess Albert first considered Laurent was trying to draw attention to his unsatisfaction, and did not think he and Paola had to go back to Brussels and visit him. When it appeared that the problem was quite serious I guess they had discussions and Albert remained difficult to convince. The letter of Paola, although understandable, is a mistake from a communication point of view. Their spokesmand did the mistake of accepting to publish is with the consent of king Philippe.
The spokesman had already been criticised for the way the request of extra money had been dealt with. This is by far too much. I think king Philippe is right in re-stating the rules.
King Albert has not been forced to abdicate!! He seems now however to have difficulties in accepting the rules about his new situation, of "former king".
I think you meant "without the consent of King Philippe" no ????
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  #148  
Old 04-04-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think it is just Prince Laurent's own character. After all his two siblings experienced the same poor marriage, the internal divisions and the rifts. Philippe and Astrid are perfectly normal functioning persons. Of course Prince Philippe had an exceptional position but I doubt there was reason for Prince Laurent to envy him. All media attention and all pressure was on Philippe. Laurent and his sister Astrid could (and can) enjoy a good life in shadow of the royal limelight. It is just his character. I wish him all the best and a good recovery.
Different children react differently to bad or negligent parenting. Philippe had the love and support of Baudouin and Fabiola who took him under their wing to prepare him for his future role. Laurent was the typical youngest child, less responsible and more devil-may-care which did not endear him to Baudouin. Astrid has had a loving husband in Lorenz from the age of 22. Also, Philippe and Astrid have not had their parentage questioned like Laurent has. One wonders what Delphine Boel knows when she asks that her DNA be compared ONLY to that of Philippe and Astrid. Laurent has made many mistakes, but he has also had some bad breaks.
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  #149  
Old 04-04-2014, 07:31 PM
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King Albert has not been forced to abdicate!! He seems now however to have difficulties in accepting the rules about his new situation, of "former king".
In Paris Match was written that King Albert is worried about the future of his spouse, Queen Paola. The essence of the story was more or less that King Albert focussed on a good abdication and hand-over to his son. He 'forgot' to negotiate a proper dotation for him and his spouse. According Paris Match the King is worried about his financial situation. It seems that he has ended the use of the Château de Fenffe in the Belgian Ardennes, his yacht Alpha in the Mediterrean is for sale and there is even no longer a cook in service at the Château du Belvédère, if we may believe Paris Match.

The King is especially worried about his wife, so claims Paris Match. When he dies, the State has to decide on a dotation for his widow. It is for sure that Queen Paola will have a much lower dotation than Queen Fabiola enjoyed in all those 20 years as widow. By spending a lot of time in Italy, Queen Paola's homeland, King Albert seems to "soothen" the quite changed situation for his spouse.

So there are a few things at the moment: insecurity about the future, the irritation about Prince Laurent's behaviour (for an example his public offer to assist Delphine Boël with DNA) and the feeling that after decades as Prince de Liège and 20 years as King he felt not valued. A sort of feeling: "How can the State not ensure that my spouse, a Queen, will never have any worries?" Of course this causes misunderstoodings amongst the Belgian public opinion because an annual dotation of € 900.000,-- and the use of buildings from the Donation Royale (like the Château du Belvédère) is not exactly what in general is seen as "poor". (I can imagine that € 900.000,-- is not enough when the workings of the château and the Household must be paid from that money too).

I think what we see now around Prince Laurent is a sort of climax of various irritations within the royal family. I hope that the new King can sort it all out.
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  #150  
Old 04-04-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In Paris Match was written that King Albert is worried about the future of his spouse, Queen Paola. The essence of the story was more or less that King Albert focussed on a good abdication and hand-over to his son. He 'forgot' to negotiate a proper dotation for him and his spouse. According Paris Match the King is worried about his financial situation. It seems that he has ended the use of the Château de Fenffe in the Belgian Ardennes, his yacht Alpha in the Mediterrean is for sale and there is even no longer a cook in service at the Château de Belvédère, if we may believe Paris Match.

The King is especially worried about his wife, so claims Paris Match. When he dies, the State has to decide on a dotation for his widow. It is for sure that Queen Paola will have a much lower dotation than Queen Fabiola enjoyed in all those 20 years as widow. By spending a lot of time in Italy, Queen Paola's homeland, King Albert seems to "soothen" the quite changed situation for his spouse.

So there are a few things at the moment: insecurity about the future, the irritation about Prince Laurent's behaviour (for an example his public offer to assist Delphine Boël with DNA) and the feeling that after decades as Prince de Liège and 20 years as King he felt not valued. A sort of feeling: "How can the State not ensure that my spouse, a Queen, will never have any worries?" Of course this causes misunderstoodings amongst the Belgian public opinion because an annual dotation of € 900.000,-- and the use of buildings from the Donation Royale (like the Chateau du Belvédère) is not exactly what in general is seen as "poor". (I can imagine that € 900.000,-- is not enough when the workings of the château and the Household must be paid from that money too).

I think what we see now around Prince Laurent is a sort of climax of various irritations within the royal family. I hope that the new King can sort it all out.
You do know that they have a personal fortune, don't you? it's not as if they live only on their dotation

And even if they didn't, I frankly really doubt Philippe is going to leave his mother to starve somewhere, they might not have the best relationship but it has been proven time and time again that he's a good man and takes care of his family in the best way he can.
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  #151  
Old 04-04-2014, 08:33 PM
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As time goes on, I'm becoming more impressed with Philippe as a King and as a man. By all appearances (visiting Laurent in the hospital on more than one occasion), he is supporting his brother and doing the right thing when someone is ill. He's also making wise decisions regarding the handling of his parents, and standing his ground.

I wasn't so sure about him when he first took the throne, but I'm liking what I'm seeing right now.
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  #152  
Old 04-05-2014, 04:08 AM
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You do know that they have a personal fortune, don't you? it's not as if they live only on their dotation

And even if they didn't, I frankly really doubt Philippe is going to leave his mother to starve somewhere, they might not have the best relationship but it has been proven time and time again that he's a good man and takes care of his family in the best way he can.
It seems that the Belgian royal family has not such a large fortune. King Leopold II was as rich as Midas but he left nothing to his daughters. Almost everything from his large fortune was given to the State (the Donation Royale) with the condition that certain parts of his donation remain in use for the King and his family, like the domain of Laeken with the various properties on it. Leopold II's descendants are now in the princely families Bonaparte and Windisch-Graetz.

After King Leopold II's death the fifth child of the late King's brother became the new King (Albert I). As youngest son of a junior Prince, King Albert I was not poor but by no means to be compared with his uncle Leopold II. The heritage of King Albert was distributed by his three children King Leopold III of the Belgians, Prince Charles, Count of Flanders and Queen Maria José of Italy.

The heritage of King Leopold III was distributed by his surviving second spouse (Princess Lilian) and his six children (Grand Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte of Luxembourg, King Baudouin of the Belgians, King Albert II of the Belgians, Prince Alexander of Belgium, Prince Marie-Christine of Belgium and Princess Marie Esméralda of Belgium). All by all the original fortune of King Albert I is now very fragmented. There is no need for King Albert to worry too much but of course he is also thinking about the prestige and the status. After all he is King, his wife Paola is Queen, they have to held a certain decorum and dignity. I can imagine that -besides all worries about Prince Laurent's poor health- also the "unsecure" future of his spouse plays a role in the family "irritations".
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  #153  
Old 04-06-2014, 03:51 AM
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As time goes on, I'm becoming more impressed with Philippe as a King and as a man. By all appearances (visiting Laurent in the hospital on more than one occasion), he is supporting his brother and doing the right thing when someone is ill. He's also making wise decisions regarding the handling of his parents, and standing his ground.

I wasn't so sure about him when he first took the throne, but I'm liking what I'm seeing right now.
I too thought that Philippe was a bit of a nonentity, but he's certainly giving the lie to that assumption. He and his wife have behaved with grace under fire during this whole debacle surrounding Laurent's illness and subsequent hospitalisation. So too has their sister Astrid.

In the face of a veritable barrage of questions regarding the absence of their parents during Laurent's health crisis they all just "kept calm and carried on" and kept their own counsel. It is a pity that their parents did not do the same. It is an even greater pity that they felt the need to speak disparagingly about their youngest son as if that had something to do with him having fallen ill, worse again was the inference that Philippe was not treating his brother well.

Through all of this they have kept a dignified silence and I have to admit I am mysified by those witter on about Laurent's "indiscretions" as if they were a mitigating factor in this situation. It is not.
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  #154  
Old 04-06-2014, 06:46 AM
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As time goes on, I'm becoming more impressed with Philippe as a King and as a man. By all appearances (visiting Laurent in the hospital on more than one occasion), he is supporting his brother and doing the right thing when someone is ill. He's also making wise decisions regarding the handling of his parents, and standing his ground.

I wasn't so sure about him when he first took the throne, but I'm liking what I'm seeing right now.
Yes I am too,Philippe & Mathilde have really come into their own & along with Princess Astrid are the only one's who are shinning in this unsavoury mess.
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  #155  
Old 04-06-2014, 07:06 AM
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I too thought that Philippe was a bit of a nonentity, but he's certainly giving the lie to that assumption. He and his wife have behaved with grace under fire during this whole debacle surrounding Laurent's illness and subsequent hospitalisation. So too has their sister Astrid.

In the face of a veritable barrage of questions regarding the absence of their parents during Laurent's health crisis they all just "kept calm and carried on" and kept their own counsel. It is a pity that their parents did not do the same. It is an even greater pity that they felt the need to speak disparagingly about their youngest son as if that had something to do with him having fallen ill, worse again was the inference that Philippe was not treating his brother well.

Through all of this they have kept a dignified silence and I have to admit I am mysified by those witter on about Laurent's "indiscretions" as if they were a mitigating factor in this situation. It is not.
Well, there are (were) irritations as well between King Philippe and his brother Prince Laurent. The same goes (went) between Princess Astrid and her brother Prince Laurent. Recently we saw a very good illustration: the eldest son of Princess Astrid and Archduke Lorenz, Amedeo, became engaged with Donna Elisabetta ('Lily') Robosch von Wolkenstein. The family gathered together at Villa Schonenberg for the happy event and gues who was too late, missing the group picture...?

This weekend the newspaper De Standaard wrote: again clumsy Prince Laurent was late, sure at last he showed his face at Villa Schonenberg. But the group picture remains for eternity and for ever it shows an empty space where uncle Laurent was expected.

Princess Astrid apparently was irritated because she felt the happy event overshadowed by the absence of her youngest brother. Soon the talk of the town was not the engagement but the absence. King Philippe was irritated because he wanted to show an united and happy family and again there was feed for rumours about rifts in the family. So the painting of Philippe/Astrid at good terms with Laurent vs Albert/Paola at bad terms is not true. The reality is much more complex. There is also a feeling of "Grow up!" and it is not at all excluded -when Prince Laurent recovers- that the King will decide on a modernizing of the royal family and directing his siblings to the sideline. This will happen anyway when the King's own children will become adults and start representing the Royal House.
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  #156  
Old 04-06-2014, 07:51 AM
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Excuse me, I merely pointed out that during this health crisis that Laurent's siblings did what needed doing and felt no need to yak to the media as opposed to his parents.

And, once again I will reiterate that whatever Laurent has or has not done in the past has nothing whatsoever to do with the current health crisis and the way it was handled by the various members of the BRF. Laurent was in an induced coma and therefore not party to anything, End of Story!

This thread is called "Prince Laurent in Hospital; March 2014. What is it that is not clear, that it is about Laurent in hospital or that it refers to the specific hospitalisation in March 2014?
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  #157  
Old 04-06-2014, 07:59 AM
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The discussion initially went about the hospitalisation of Prince Laurent indeed but because everything what has happened iince the admission into hospital, has completely outstaged the hospitalisation itself. All media in Belgium are in turbo speed discussing the state of the royal family, Prince Laurent himself is 'forgotten'. I think it is difficult to discuss the hospitalisation of the Prince without embedding it in the apparently deep and core familial problems inside the royal family. After all the discussion evolued to the questions: "Wat is going on?", "Where are the parents?" and "What does Paola's public letter mean?".
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  #158  
Old 04-06-2014, 08:13 AM
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"What is going on?", "Where are the parents?" (when their son was in a coma). Relevant. "What does Paola's public letter mean?" . . . well since it addresses the event it is relevant, unfortunately the extra irrelevant and private information she released started a media firestorm the details of which do not relate to the health of Prince Laurent and his recovery.

All in all it is not a good look for the BRF although I believe that the King and the Queen of the Belgians acted with dignity as did Princess Astrid. Muck raking over years of a disfunctional family in a public forum . . . not so much.
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:19 PM
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"What is going on?", "Where are the parents?" (when their son was in a coma). Relevant. "What does Paola's public letter mean?" . . . well since it addresses the event it is relevant, unfortunately the extra irrelevant and private information she released started a media firestorm the details of which do not relate to the health of Prince Laurent and his recovery.

All in all it is not a good look for the BRF although I believe that the King and the Queen of the Belgians acted with dignity as did Princess Astrid. Muck raking over years of a disfunctional family in a public forum . . . not so much.
This.
Honestly, Albert & Paola managed this badly and it reflects in the opinion of most people about the issue, while Philippe, Mathilde and Astrid did what they should and came out stronger imo.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:31 PM
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This.
Honestly, Albert & Paola managed this badly and it reflects in the opinion of most people about the issue, while Philippe, Mathilde and Astrid did what they should and came out stronger imo.
Oh yes you are right.
I wonder if Laurent's popularity won't soar now....
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