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  #81  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by avrilo View Post
Of course Jo there are other reasons for annulment other than sexual.

I posted w
hat I know after 25 years of bein a catholic of catholic family in a catholic country. Stuff like this can variate accordin to the bishop or diocesis. If you say your family did it, it is ok. I have no reason to doubt you.

My
idea here was to show, that as catholics the princes can marry a non-catholic; however, I dunno what is required by their country. I think forcin someone to convert to enter a family is too much
I don't think they'd be forcing her to convert-if it was a matter of forcing her to convert, I know I would refuse if it were a matter of force...

on the other hand, I have not been a practicing lutheran for many years now because I disagreed with the teachings as I learned them, so if I was brought into contact with teachings such as the Catholic Church, that I agreed with, I probably would convert. If it meant marrying a man I loved as well-then that's a bonus.

I have women in my family who converted in order to be the same religion as their husband- I don't disagree with it as it is a very personal decision that is not going to be the same for any two people.
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  #82  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:24 PM
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I know that before people were asking what transubstantiation is, and It is when wine and bread are turned into the sacred body and blood of Jesus Christ.
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  #83  
Old 09-07-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Orién-Reverie View Post
Wouldn't bother me, I'm not religious. And besides, what's the point of living if you can't love and be married to the person you're madly in love with. Though I do believe converting for the sake of marriage isn't exactly smart. I mean it's your faith, I think that parliament and all the other people are ridiculous in their beliefs that the boys must marry a catholic. How would they feel if they were told they couldn't marry the person that they loved with all of their heart just because their religion was different. Personally, if I were religious and I was told i couldn't marry the guy I loved because we had different religions I'd be utterly pissed off. But that's just me.
Well-said! I think that for the Hereditary Grand Duke Prince Guillaume (Forgive me if I mess up his title) would probably have to marry a Catholic UNLESS for some miraculous reason the people of Luxembourg and his family fell in love with this girl. I don't think there are any laws concering this like England, though. But for Prince Felix and Sebastien...I think they will be a little bit more lenient because they aren't the ones who are going to be running a country. But yeah I'm Protestant but I don't go by labels...I just go by my relationship with Christ ^_^. But that would be awful if I couldn't marry the man I love...why go on living?
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  #84  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:38 AM
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I think they can marry anyone:) or not?? Is Tessy catholic??
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  #85  
Old 10-29-2008, 09:46 AM
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I think they can marry anyone:) or not?? Is Tessy catholic??
I think so...She and Louis married in a catholic cerimony, so I think she also is Catholic
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  #86  
Old 10-29-2008, 01:45 PM
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In our coutry it is possible to have a catholic ceremony if only one is Catholic, so I'm not sure, but she can be also catholic.
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  #87  
Old 11-17-2008, 06:47 PM
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I think that if they marry a non Catholic they are no longer in the line of succession to the Grand Ducal throne of Luxembourg.
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  #88  
Old 11-17-2008, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cosette minette View Post
I think that if they marry a non Catholic they are no longer in the line of succession to the Grand Ducal throne of Luxembourg.
But it seems to me that marrying a non-catholic would be okay as long as the children were catholic (as my lutheran uncle's marriage was- he married a catholic woman, the catholic church decreed the children had to be catholic, and everyone was ok with it.)

There's always the chance that the fiancé would convert- I think I might if the love were strong enough and I was sure enough about the relationship. Granted, though, I haven't been to church for anything but weddings and funerals for over ten years...
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  #89  
Old 11-18-2008, 07:30 AM
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I think, they just will follow the tradition and marry an catholic girl. Also in Liechtenstein and in Belgium, where the royal house and the majority of the population is tradtionally catholic, all the princes/princess married a catholic person. (E.g. Mathilde, Claire, Lorenz d'Austria, Sophie of Bavaria were catholic). If the partner is from a different faith, the house will ask him/her to convert. But i don't think anybody is loosing his/her right of succession, because some of the dukes were protestants, e.g. William IV, Adolphe (For the law of sucession see also here: Line of succession to the throne of Luxembourg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
IMO they can marry everybody they like. It is very old fashioned for me to force brides to change faith or cease to be in the succession, when marrying the "wrong" faith. Most countries do not have state churches, so there is no legal or politcal reason to stick to this usage. In modern, multicultural societies it is not very reasonable to believe that the duke has to be catholic as x% of the society are catholic.


Just an add to the topic Princess Mary changed faith/transubstantiation on page 5. :
"Luther explicitly rejected transubstantiation, believing that the bread and wine remained fully bread and fully wine while also being fully the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Luther instead emphasized the sacramental union (not exactly the consubstantiation, as it is often claimed). Lutherans believe that within the Eucharistic celebration the body and blood of Jesus Christ are objectively present "in, with, and under the forms" of bread and wine (cf. Book of Concord). They place great stress on Jesus' instructions to "take and eat", and "take and drink", holding that this is the proper, divinely ordained use of the sacrament, and, while giving it due reverence, scrupulously avoid any actions that might indicate or lead to superstition or unworthy fear of the sacrament." (from: Transubstantiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Beside this part of lutheranism, i don't see a hugh difference to calvinism (and Mary was a member of the church of scotland and so being calvinst). In Germany about 1/3 of the population are protestants ("Evangelisch" in German). And 1/3 of the protestants are calvinists. Lutherans and calvinists mostly use the same churches, priests...I think here most people could not even tell if they are luterans or calvinists, they just would say "evangelisch".
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  #90  
Old 12-07-2008, 01:33 PM
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The question is not just one of non-Catholicism, but a question of the exact religion of the non-Catholic partner.

For instance, where I come from, a non-Muslim who wants to marry a Muslim MUST convert, otherwise you can't even get married legally. The children are also automatically Muslim. I believe this compulsory conversion on the part of the non-muslim spouse is not applicable in most other countries but it does appear to be the usual practice worldwide. So if Guillaume or one of his siblings married a Muslim, the issue of who converts will be a major one! There is a very real possibility the Muslim partner here would not be willing to accept a non-Muslim spouse.

It's very unlikely the hypothetical Muslim spouse could become Catholic either. For a Muslim to leave the religion means to commit the crime of apostasy. Very very serious and in some countries it's punishable by death. A high profile Muslim converting to another religion / even getting married in a church (without converting) could face serious death threats, it's been known to happen before. Furthermore, there is a lot of Islamophobia in the west so I think it may be almost impossible for the Lux. children, Guillaume especially, to marry a Muslim. Even if marriage took place, the religion of the offspring would be a major issue, personally and politically.

For a hypothetical spouse of certain other religions, things may be slightly easier. Hinduism and Buddhism, e.g., tend to be generally very accepting of other religions. Therefore a Hindu / Buddhist is more likely able and willing to convert / marry in a Church / raise the children as Catholics. There is also no question of the spouse of such a person having to convert into Hinduism or Buddhism, it's completely unnecessary, most people would never even think to ask. However, I don't know how accepting people in Luxembourg would be of a Hindu / Buddhist princess, church wedding or no church wedding. The current pope himself made that infamous comment about Buddhism being a form of spiritually self-indulgent eroticism.

And we haven't gotten to other religions, e.g. Wicca or a practitioner of other Earth-based religions (e.g. natural witchcraft, pagan, eclectic witchcraft). Can you imagine any of the Lux royals being married to a practising witch?

In this context, even a die-hard Protestant will seem like a saint!
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  #91  
Old 12-07-2008, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lisamaria View Post
If the girl was a religious type, and her faith had a deeper meaning to her, surely she would be better off staying faithfull to her values and principles than giving them up for a cute guy?
So true, although I suppose if she's marrying the cute guy in question, he's a bit more than just cute to her!

Even if she's not religious, should she be going around pretending to a faith she has no belief in? Isn't that hypocrisy? If I were Luxembourgian citizen, I would have no trouble with a royal bride of any religion so long as the prince and his children remained Catholic. As long as the bride doesn't eat babies and drink blood, she'll be fine by me.

OTOH, if I were to marry a Catholic prince myself (ha! fat chance! ) I would probably not consider converting to Catholicism. It's no question of love or no love, duty or no duty. It's simply that I cannot believe in something I have no faith in. And to me, it's the worst sort of hypocrisy to pretend to confess a belief that I do not have. I don't mind other people making such a choice, but I doubt I could do it myself. It would make me very miserable to have to renounce my beliefs! So I guess I won't be joining gaggle & co. in that long line for Guillaume's hand in marriage. Unless the Lux family + people are willing to let me continue with my spiritually self-indulgent eroticism.
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  #92  
Old 06-01-2009, 02:34 AM
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I agree with you, Lielac. I's just Guillaume who has to have a lot of considerations before marrying.
It's burdensome to convert due to religious questions. Whoever that girl Guillaume's going to marry,she's a lucky one (except if she is a member of another faith).
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  #93  
Old 07-29-2009, 09:19 AM
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I think that if they marry with non Catholic girl she must do the same like Marry.She must accept the Catholic religion.
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  #94  
Old 07-29-2009, 05:40 PM
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They can marry whoever they want. I think the whole religiously exclusive thing is outdated and discriminatory. Obviously, I think Guillaume would have the most problems if he wanted to marry a non-catholic, but for the other princes, I'm not sure there would be as big of a fuss.
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  #95  
Old 09-05-2009, 02:46 PM
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From what I understand, unlike in England, there is no law requiring the spouse of a member of the LRF to be Catholic. There is a separation of church and state, even though the population is predominately Catholic, and the Grand Duke is not the head of the church as the Queen is in England. I can see no legal reason why any member of the LRF would have to marry a Catholic or have their spouse convert.

As for religious reasons, the family, and the people, can't be that strictly Catholic if they had no problem with Louis having pre-marital sex and a child out of wedlock. Yes, he was taken out of the line of succession but Tessy and their sons all received titles eventually. It would seem extremely hypocritical to expect someone to abide by your family's religious afiliation when your family seems to be able to bend the rules when it suits them (ie. sex outside of marriage).
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  #96  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:56 AM
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Well-said! I think that for the Hereditary Grand Duke Prince Guillaume (Forgive me if I mess up his title) would probably have to marry a Catholic UNLESS for some miraculous reason the people of Luxembourg and his family fell in love with this girl. I don't think there are any laws concering this like England, though. But for Prince Felix and Sebastien...I think they will be a little bit more lenient because they aren't the ones who are going to be running a country. But yeah I'm Protestant but I don't go by labels...I just go by my relationship with Christ ^_^. But that would be awful if I couldn't marry the man I love...why go on living?
They could abdicate or renounce their place if they felt strongly enough to marry a woman who refuses to change from protestant to catholic. That's why there's that old saying "an heir and a spare"
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  #97  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
They could abdicate or renounce their place if they felt strongly enough to marry a woman who refuses to change from protestant to catholic. That's why there's that old saying "an heir and a spare"

I really doubt it would ever be an issue if Guillaume or one of his siblings chose to marry a non-Catholic.

You have to remember that it was a Catholic/Protestant marriage in the Grand Ducal Family that resulted in the introduction of Catholicism to the family. Prior to the marriage of the Guillaume IV to Infanta Marie Anna of Portugal the Grand Ducal Family was actually protestant. The son's of the union (since they would have succession rights) were to be Protestant and the daughters were to be Catholic like their mother. As it turns out, the marriage produced 6 Princesses and not a single Prince.
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  #98  
Old 09-26-2009, 02:19 PM
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I really doubt it would ever be an issue if Guillaume or one of his siblings chose to marry a non-Catholic.

You have to remember that it was a Catholic/Protestant marriage in the Grand Ducal Family that resulted in the introduction of Catholicism to the family. Prior to the marriage of the Guillaume IV to Infanta Marie Anna of Portugal the Grand Ducal Family was actually protestant. The son's of the union (since they would have succession rights) were to be Protestant and the daughters were to be Catholic like their mother. As it turns out, the marriage produced 6 Princesses and not a single Prince.
Well I suppose that the idea was to raise also eventual sons of that couple as catholics because it was the religion of the country.
About nowadays princes, it is probable that if they choose non-catholic wifes the Grand Ducal Family would hope a conversion but if the bride refuses it they will probably accept her if she accept that all the children will be raisen in the Catholic faith. That clause is also the clause that usually persuade the Chatholic Church to accept mixed weddings.
An interesting question is if there would be some difference between the acceptance of a non-Catholic Chirstian and a Muslim or a Jewish.
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:18 PM
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The sons were actually going to be raised protestant not catholic so I don't think that was the idea.

I think a Jewish girl would be accepted fine as would any variety of Christian girl. I think that a Muslim girl would only encounter resistance because Muslim women are not permitted to marry outside of their faith and none of the Lux princes would ever convert...they are very devout.
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  #100  
Old 09-26-2009, 08:56 PM
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The sons were actually going to be raised protestant not catholic so I don't think that was the idea.
Here, for example it is stated the contrary Maria Anna do Carmo de Bragança (1861 - 1942) - Find A Grave Memorial
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