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  #201  
Old 09-27-2005, 10:19 PM
Margrethe II's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
With great privileges come great responsibilities. I'm sure Louis is a good person and his family seems close-knit. But when you're royal and your father is Sovereign, the reality is you must carry your weight and fulfill duty. There will be a price to pay for him.
This is also true branchg.

"MII"
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  #202  
Old 09-27-2005, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
But you were never in this situation, so that you can't say: I faced the situation, I knew how it was to be pregnant out of wedlock and to have a choice to do. I feel it. Well, I stop here. You don't seem to understand my statement.

Ah, I'd like to remind everyone a sentence I love from the french philosoph Voltaire, a sentence I agree completely with: "I will fight your ideas, but I'm ready to be killed for you have the right to express it".

To each his/her own. I have the right, as you do, to post my views. I am sure you are an excellent mother.

But, I have the right to post on here that I think it is scandalous if I want to just as you all the have the right to post how wonderful it is the are going to be parents. And I do understand your statement.

The real proof of the matter will come when the baby is born and then we can see how they will react.

To quote my great country: I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will always defend your right to say it.

J'adore Voltaire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle
I think some members are being a little harsh on Tessy and Louis. I don’t necessarily agree with the situation, and would have preferred them to have a child after they were married, but what is done is done. Judging them and calling them immoral is just not on! We should all remember that we don’t know the full story. Until we do, we should keep some of our judgements to ourself!

Thank you,
Danielle
Yes, but I believe we are all being polite, if not direct in our posts. We all have the right to disagree and from what I see we all have done so respectfully.

This is a hot button topic for many of us on either side. I think the range of opinions has been wonderful from those who are happy and wish them the best, to those who look at the moral side of it, to those who don't care, to those who want them to be great parents.

Having all these posts on here shows the beauty of the freedom of opinion from all these intelligent people from all different countries and cultures.

I think this thread has been one of the best on here and certainly is more profound and very well debated than say, Which Royal Are You?, or Cutest Royal.

I think all of us should be proud of ourselves for professing such honest and truthful posts of how we feel.

I applaud all of you for doing so.
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  #203  
Old 09-27-2005, 11:51 PM
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My Response

Your Welcome Alexandria. I understand that you echo the same words but in many different ways at different times here in the Royal Forum. Your right their has been many strong feelings regarding to Louis and Tessy sitaution. Everybody does have the absolute right to voice their opinions whatever it may be but recently I personally have been reading other people's opinions and some members have been dissing other people's opinions as if they did not count. That is what I was saying and this is what I am saying right now to you. Some members here have not been polite or respectful towards others' opinions and myself being a member here I did not like what I was reading so I tried to help ease things by saying " lets respect each other's opinions and if you are going to have strong feelings about this situation then please private message towards whom you are directing your opinions towards." Yeah it would be a squander to close this thread because of us all voicing our opinions but some members slashing out on others way too strong and that was why I said what I am saying now.
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  #204  
Old 09-28-2005, 01:19 AM
msfroyste's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la francaise
Where did you hear this from?
from another board/forum. i found it interesting. this person said they read it somewhere but couldn't recall. so for now, it could be a rumor. *shrugs.
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  #205  
Old 09-28-2005, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
To each his/her own. I have the right, as you do, to post my views. I am sure you are an excellent mother.

But, I have the right to post on here that I think it is scandalous if I want to just as you all the have the right to post how wonderful it is the are going to be parents. And I do understand your statement.

The real proof of the matter will come when the baby is born and then we can see how they will react.

To quote my great country: I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will always defend your right to say it.

J'adore Voltaire...
Oh, I'm not already mother, and I don't thing it was the best to do that Louis and Tessy made a child. Actually, I was too very shocked when I learned the news.
But I agree with you: let's wait till the baby is born, then we will have proofs with which we will judge.

To Alexandria: I'm sorry if you found me "superior" when I said there were moralizer speeches. I never meant to be condescendant, it would to too long to explain why I reacted like this, but I learnt from my experience that on these kind of matters, people are reacting with their heart. And that explains my reactions. I will just say that when you're an "activist" (not the best word, but I don't remember other words) in some matters, there are things who makes you react a little stronger than another. I never meant to insult anyone nor to be offensive or too harsh, just to say how I was feeling when reading some comments.
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  #206  
Old 09-28-2005, 09:42 AM
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I might get a bit bashed over this, but so be it.
I do respect your opinions, but there's one thing I want to point out: Shouldn't we just be a bit more cautious if we talk about how immoral those two guys were having sex at their age (without using contraceptives)?

They've been careless, yes.
Possibly they've been breathtakingly stupid, yes.
And they're paying the price.

But immoral?
Morality is based on convention, traditions, and personal faith. All these things can change and have done so repeatedly in history. They are not in any way absolute truths! Using the morality argument just makes one sound holier-than-thou.
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  #207  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:05 AM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
I might get a bit bashed over this, but so be it.
I do respect your opinions, but there's one thing I want to point out: Shouldn't we just be a bit more cautious if we talk about how immoral those two guys were having sex at their age (without using contraceptives)?

They've been careless, yes.
Possibly they've been breathtakingly stupid, yes.
And they're paying the price.

But immoral?
Morality is based on convention, traditions, and personal faith. All these things can change and have done so repeatedly in history. They are not in any way absolute truths! Using the morality argument just makes one sound holier-than-thou.
Thanks a lot, Smilla. That's exactly what my points were about.
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  #208  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:36 AM
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Hi Smillla,

No you won't. That was a very classy post to put on here. You are just being honest and there is nothing wrong with that at all. :)
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  #209  
Old 09-28-2005, 01:05 PM
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congratulation!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #210  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:03 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Can we get off all these morality and personal beliefs issue? That isn't what this thread is for.
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  #211  
Old 09-29-2005, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaggleofcrazypeople
Can we get off all these morality and personal beliefs issue? That isn't what this thread is for.
Yes, please do .
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  #212  
Old 09-29-2005, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaggleofcrazypeople
Can we get off all these morality and personal beliefs issue? That isn't what this thread is for.
I agree! This forum is not here for people to discuss their thoughts on morality and religion. Although it does come into play with this particular issue, we should remember what this forum is for - discussing royalty!
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  #213  
Old 09-29-2005, 06:38 PM
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that's a good idea!!
some information about tessy for those who are interested (from point de vue): she's 20 years old and does live in niedercorn. she went to the lycée technique mathias adam in pétange. she only went there for the first 3 years just as long as school obligation lasts(that I know it from a friend)! her father is a roofer (not sure whether you call it like that)
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  #214  
Old 09-29-2005, 06:40 PM
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Despite the moratorium on discussions of morality, I would like to point out that Luxembourg has an official religion, Catholicism. In accordance with Catholic morals, the monarchy should act in a Catholic manner. Having a child out of wedlock is not in keeping with Catholic principles. As such, I think it would be more in keeping with their role as Luxembourg's first family for the Nassaus to conform to Catholic attitudes toward sexuality and morality. Personally, of course, as a devout Orthodox Christian, I would not do as Prince Louis and his girlfriend did, but, as has been pointed out by others, one's own personal beliefs or morals are not universal.
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  #215  
Old 09-29-2005, 09:53 PM
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So she isn't very dedicated to her future, I assume.
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  #216  
Old 09-29-2005, 10:25 PM
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Well I guess history has repeated itself. But I wonder to what extent, especially in regards to titles and styles, etc. As grecka pointed out, the grand ducal family should act in a catholic way. So maybe there will be a stripping of princely titles and a demotion, etc. I Kind of hope this is not the case.
In regards to Tessy getting out of school after the mandatory phase, I am think that maybe she is an army type girl. MAybe her aspirations were in the army. Or maybe not.
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  #217  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Well I guess history has repeated itself. But I wonder to what extent, especially in regards to titles and styles, etc. As grecka pointed out, the grand ducal family should act in a catholic way. So maybe there will be a stripping of princely titles and a demotion, etc. I Kind of hope this is not the case.
In regards to Tessy getting out of school after the mandatory phase, I am think that maybe she is an army type girl. MAybe her aspirations were in the army. Or maybe not.
The demotion that occurred with Henri's brother occurred under the reign of a different Grand Duke and in a different time. I would expect for Henri to perhaps handle things differently in this time with his own son.

I have always perceived the Grand Ducal Family to be a conservative Catholic household and in many respects I do expect them to behave accordingly, especially as a reigning Royal Family. Couples having children out of wedlock is not an uncommon thing in this day, however, when it comes to royals, specificially those of reigning Royal Families, there should be different standards. More should be and frankly must be expected.

I would expect and do hope that Louis will be allowed to keep his title of Prince. However, I do not believe nor do I think that his child should be titled. If he and his girlfriend marry in the future, then I would expect for this to legitimize their son or daughter in the eyes of the Catholic Church and law thus allowing for the child and mother to both be titled if the Grand Duke should so choose.

In regards as setting particular standard of ethics and morals, I must say that the Grand Duke an Grand Duchess have done an excellent job with what I would assume is an embarassing and uncomfortable situation for them. I do not believe that the announcement was one that was made in the way of joy, but done so in order to be direct and honest with the world.

In this respect, the Duke and Duchess have done an excellent job. Rather than trying to silence this young woman and trying to hide the entire situation, they have decided to make it public. Years ago something like this would have been pushed very far away and would most likely have never come to view or would have been made public many years later in a most embarassing way. Thank goodness they have chosen to be honest and deal with the situation at hand. I think that is the best way in which the family can preserve some sort for dignity and some sort of "control" over the situation.

If Henri and Maria Teresa's upbringing is any indication, I would think that they would both want for this young couple to be as close as possible and have a healthy relationship which could possibly lead to a happy marriage and a good life together. I doubt that they want for their son, a Prince of Luxembourg to have an illegitimate child being raised alone by his mother or with another family while he is someday married to another woman and living with his immediate family.
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  #218  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:30 PM
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But did Jean really lose his title?
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  #219  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaggleofcrazypeople
But did Jean really lose his title?
I am not certain that he lost his title of Prince, however he did have to renounce his rights of succession and those of his descendents. His wife was also titled Countess of Nassau and not Princess. His children were titled as Count or Countess of Nassau as well. However, in 2004, they were given the titles Prince and Princess of Nassau with the prefix of HRH.
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  #220  
Old 10-01-2005, 01:50 AM
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Isabel is right. Also, Jean did not lose his title, he just lost his right to succession and also the right to pass his title on to his children. However, Henri fixed that last year.
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