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  #181  
Old 09-27-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
When we belong to some religion, we have to follow it in everything, we can't choose "I want this, but I don't want that!". or "This is very good for me but this is too much!".
I never saw written in Gospels that "Jesus taught like loving each other, charity and all that (...) was far more important than forbidding to people loving each other to have sex". Jesus taught we should always do God's will, in every circunstances. That's what Jesus taught. Louis and Tessy had pre-marital sex (was not a very good decision) and she got pregnant. They decided to have the baby and that was God's will, that's why I admire them like I also admire Princess Mette-Marit.
I won't enter in a theological debate but I don't agree at all with you. One's relationship with God and the religion is not a formal one, it's too an human one, which is full of the experiences, of the doubts of the person, of what she is. Maybe it's hard for some to understand that one can feel that or her belongs to a religion and has problems with some dogmas or teachings. I have lot of difficulties with some matters of the Roman Catholic religion, I agree with lot of matter of faith which make catholics different of protestants, or the orthodox. Religion is an human matter, let's considere humans have the right to disagree or have problems with some matters.
By the way, I've the impression God has never forbidden to have sex before marriage, but that's an other matter.
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  #182  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:22 PM
Gentry
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
Yes I realised I misunderstood your post... That's why I edit mine in an other way...
I'm sorry to have been offensive with you. Let's say I'm tired after a difficult day...
It's all good . We are all post members here.:)
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  #183  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:24 PM
Alexandra's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannelore
Silly silly couple, it's not easy to have children when you're not yet a real adult yourself. Their young carefree lives are over now, and it won't be easy, a child is a huge responsability.
I agree absolutely with your opinion!
Poor silly youngsters, children themselves. And in a catholic country, too. Poor grandparents, too. I must have been hell for them all to discuss the situation.

Anyway, the child is coming, nothig to do, God bless all of them.
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  #184  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
I agree absolutely with your opinion!
Poor silly youngsters, children themselves. And in a catholic country, too. Poor grandparents, too. I must have been hell for them all to discuss the situation.

Anyway, the child is coming, nothig to do, God bless all of them.
Both of you are correct:) . I agree Louis and Tessy are young adults themselves but did the both of you ever thought that maybe this was a planned baby even though they are not married?
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  #185  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamass
i think they are being very adult about things. they did not wimp out by aborting the pregnancy nor did they run away. they faced up to what is going on and i believe this will be a life changing thing, but i think they are ready. no one is really ever ready but their families will help them become somewhat ready. yes it is shocking but they are being more mature about it than many people worldwide.
Is it possible to get an abort in a strong catholic country? Of course there always are ways, I know, but it should have been that kind of a secret, that it would have very llikely become known everywhere. A juicy secret...

Fortunately they did the best thing they could do in that situation, to tell their parents.
Poor, poor youngsters! And what will become of the child, if the parents-to-become one day will go their own paths! Who takes then the responsibility for the little one. Money there will be enough, thet sure, but money is not everything...
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  #186  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
You saw this situation in your family, but did you face it personnally?
Of course we are entitled to our own comments, that's why my personal comments are that I'm sick with moralizer comments of "we shall do like this, not like that... and so ever".
Yes, to my first cousin and sister so that is good enough to see it firsthand.

We all moralize at differrent levels. If you are sick of my statements, that is not anything I can control.

Remember, we all the have the right to post with respect to others on here. Please remember that the next time you post yourself.

Thank you.
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  #187  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suturegeisha
...look at Prince Jean, Henri's brother, and his [ex?] wife Helene Vestur- their first daughter was born before they ever got married.
Why ex-wife? Are Jean and Helene divorced? I never heard of that!
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  #188  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Yes, to my first cousin and sister so that is good enough to see it firsthand.

We all moralize at differrent levels. If you are sick of my statements, that is not anything I can control.

Remember, we all the have the right to post with respect to others on here. Please remember that the next time you post yourself.

Thank you.
But you were never in this situation, so that you can't say: I faced the situation, I knew how it was to be pregnant out of wedlock and to have a choice to do. I feel it. Well, I stop here. You don't seem to understand my statement.

Ah, I'd like to remind everyone a sentence I love from the french philosoph Voltaire, a sentence I agree completely with: "I will fight your ideas, but I'm ready to be killed for you have the right to express it".

[QUOTE=Alexandra]
Quote:
Originally Posted by suturegeisha
...look at Prince Jean, Henri's brother, and his [ex?] wife Helene Vestur- their first daughter was born before they ever got married. QUOTE]

Why ex-wife? Are Jean and Helene divorced? I never heard of that!
Nothing official has been stated but they were rumours according to which Jean and Hélène were divorced, and that Jean re-married. But Hélène was seen at the confirmation of princess Alexandra, so I guess she's still accepted by the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Yes, to my first cousin and sister so that is good enough to see it firsthand.

We all moralize at differrent levels. If you are sick of my statements, that is not anything I can control.

Remember, we all the have the right to post with respect to others on here. Please remember that the next time you post yourself.

Thank you.
A last thing: you're of course entitled to express your opinion. But I have the right to say I'm sick of moralizing statement.
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  #189  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:46 PM
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But, since they will have a baby but will not marry... Will the child have any titles? Or it will be like Prince Jean "case" :-p?
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  #190  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Since he thought he was so smart and adult for having unprotected intercourse, I would then cut him off financially and make him really learn what being a parent is all about. Paying for the baby's health care, clothing, diapers, food, etc.

Let's see how adult he would be without the money and homes to back up his careless actions.

I will say it again, amazing how all of you treat this like it is so cool to have happened.
No, it is not cool. You have so right in many things. Of course it makes things much, much easier, when you have the big money. No need to think, how to get clothes for the growing baby, in this place the money will be there. The big money paves the way much. I hope, they will be mature enough to see their own responsibility towards their actions and their baby. And they really have behaved very careless. But there is no need to punish the young people. How terrible it must have been to be "forced" to tell the truth to perents. Yes, to be a fly in the ceiling at that moment...
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  #191  
Old 09-27-2005, 04:15 PM
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[QUOTE=[b]Queen Astrid][/b]

I quite dont know what to say....as a girl who was born out of wedlock myself I feel more for the baby then the parents. (Heck I dont know much about MY birthfather.....) I think this is quite the last straw about my love affair with royalty...it really seems that they ARE too human after all. I am not bashing royals but its strange how ppl react to this. I feel a bit sad about this, but I was expecting something like this to happen to at least one of the royals one of these days in this crazy world. I heard a roumour about something like this in Spain and about Guillaume of course you will not believe me so I wont talk about it. I dont know maybe the castles and fairytales are really stupid in the first place.....sigh whats the point anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ennyllorac
I think what we all need to remember is that they are all human with human foibles.
Yes, royal seem to be human, but sometimes we just need fairytales. And it is so sad when a fairytale turns out to be too human...
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  #192  
Old 09-27-2005, 05:10 PM
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As I posted earlier, I think Louis has displayed great self-indulgence and immaturity. It is even more inexcusable given the family's tremendous fortune (they are one of the richest royals in the world) and privileges. How responsible can he be with a huge staff to take care of his every need? No matter how rich or poor, 19 years old is far too young to have the responsibility of being a parent.

It's very disgraceful for a royal to behave this way...especially in a Catholic country!
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  #193  
Old 09-27-2005, 05:48 PM
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I think some members are being a little harsh on Tessy and Louis. I don’t necessarily agree with the situation, and would have preferred them to have a child after they were married, but what is done is done. Judging them and calling them immoral is just not on! We should all remember that we don’t know the full story. Until we do, we should keep some of our judgements to ourself!

Thank you,
Danielle
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  #194  
Old 09-27-2005, 06:09 PM
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Ok now i'm over my initial shock and can actually participate in this forum without going on about how shocked i am hahaha well here's my bit about MT and Henri...i think as with all parents they would be really disappointed with their son, not just because he's a prince and all but because he's so young and has yet to experience alot of what life has to offer. And also being at such a high status they have to set an example for others and having a 19 year son who is going to having a child out of wedlock isn't particularly good for their image. I know many of you are probably shaking your fists thinking how could this girl be superficial and just think of image in a situation like this, but as my parents always says 'a child's actions reflects on the parents as well' [something like that haha] - people may think that MT and Henri didn't raise their child right or think less of them...i know, i know, Louis made the decision so he should accept the consequence and having a baby is marvelous indeed, but it is kind of selfish not to have prevented it because look who has to deal with it not just emotionally but financially as well now? MT and Henri.
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  #195  
Old 09-27-2005, 07:12 PM
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Wow! There are so many opinions about this issue, but hardly any facts.
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  #196  
Old 09-27-2005, 07:54 PM
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Congratulations to Prince Louis!
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  #197  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la francaise
Okay Folks

Let's not jump down each others throat. We are all members here so lets respect one another. If you don't agree to another members opinions that's fine but don't judge as in " my opinion is right and yours is wrong because I don't understand where your coming from or can't comprehend your point of view". This is just an example of what I'm trying to say here.

Thank you
la francaise
Thank you la francaise. I echo those sentiments as both a member and a moderator of this forum.

There are naturally high and strong feelings about all things related to this subject, on a personal nature (eg. one's own personal beliefs and experiences, religion), a public nature (the Luxembourg family as public figures), and a social nature (the societal ramifications and examples set by Louis and Tessy, the responsiblities of teenage parents and premarital sex on the whole).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinon, whatever they may be, about all of these things, so long as they are expressed politely and respectfully.

That being noted, I do not appreciate or care for some of the comments that have been tossed about here, including comments about others being "moralizers" or "preachers" or the condescending and superior attitudes of certain members.

As this is such a "hot" topic at the moment with many different members participating in this part of the forum, it would be a shame to have to close it because a handful of members cannot be polite and civil to each other regardless of their differences of opinon. And giving your opinon then reminding others that you have a right to it and for others to reply to it respectfully does not achieve that end result.

If you can't play fair in this thread then there won't be such a thread to play in at all.

Alexandria
Royal Forums Administrator
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  #198  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:45 PM
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SOmetimes ppl do immoral things, but they are not necessarily immoral. It is conscioustly repeating those things and not learning from them that is immoral. So I don't think Louis and Tessy are immoral. They've just got alot to learn.

Louis better think long and hard b/f he decides to marry Tessy. For one, as a prince, he has sooo much freedom and privileges. HAving a kid will impinge upon a little bit of those freedoms, but not alot. If he marries than a majority of his freedom goes. As far as Tessy, I expect that she will get some breaks as well and will be able to follow whatever career she wants whether it is in the military or whatever. Sadly, in many situations where a baby is born out-of-wedlock, the woman has most, if not all, of the responsibility of raising the kid(s). This won't be the case with Tessy. I am still kind of shocked, but everything will be ok. Louis should marry her only and only if he loves her and realizes that he is ok w/ giving up alot of freedom. Otherwise, don't get married anytime soon.
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  #199  
Old 09-27-2005, 09:01 PM
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Wow! This thread has exploded! And I check these boards twice a day! :p

I would like to thank drimal for his helpful comments on the article I posted. I wondered if anybody had read it! XD

And also, to answer a quick question from someone else about two pages ago, I do believe that Jean and his wife are divorced.....for sure they're at least seperated- they haven't been seen together in public in years [and if they're together and happy wouldn't you think that's a bit off?]

And guys, play nice. I think that Louis and Tessy could have planned this a little better, but they didn't. We need not argue about morality and whatnot- you know the baby will be loved dearly and will want for nothing. Let's all just remember...
If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas!
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  #200  
Old 09-27-2005, 09:21 PM
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With great privileges come great responsibilities. I'm sure Louis is a good person and his family seems close-knit. But when you're royal and your father is Sovereign, the reality is you must carry your weight and fulfill duty. There will be a price to pay for him.
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