New Titles for Tessy, Gabriel and Noah de Nassau; June 23rd, 2009

[Princess Robijn]

sgl: I don't think you are correct.

The Grand Duke and Grand Duchess, Prince Louis and Princess Tessy, Prince Gabriel and Prince Noah are all wearing the exact same outfit as with the Closing of the Octave of Our Lady of Luxembourg; May 17th, 2009. The only thing missing are the hairpieces of the Grand Duchess and Princess Tessy. My guess is that that's when the picture was taken. I don't think the titles could have been declared then and just gotten to the press on June 23. Ofcourse they already knew it then, but I don't expect it was declared then.

Shikha Pal: Prince Louis is not in line to the throne, neither are his sons.

Josette

[Mrs Littrell]

She is working with Red Cross in Switzerland now, right? I think that in next year or two we will see her accompanied Maria Theresa a lot, but not solo!

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by carlota

OFFICIAL PICTURE, Princess Tessy de Nassau and Prince Louis of Luxembourg with their son Gabriel and Noah and Maria Teresa and Henri with ocassion of the new titles

That's a beautiful picture, the family looks so happy. This is wonderful for Tessy, Gabriel and Noah.

[Marsel]

Thank you for answering my question, Lalla Meriem! :)

Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem

Because, a women may only assume the royal titles of her husband in Luxembourg if they are married with the consent of the Grand Duke. Louis did not receive (nor seek) consent to marry Tessy thus she could never have been a Princess of Luxembourg simply by her marriage to him. According the the decrees the govern marriages without consent Louis should have become Count of Nassau with equal dignity in his spouse and children born into the marriage but not ones born before. Grand Duke Henri, like his father before him, decided that Louis should remain a Prince of Luxembourg but that no titles were to be available to his children or wife.

That does seem to resemble the Dutch situation; Johan Friso didn't get (or seek) the consent of the Monarch/the Parliament. A special Decree was issued that specified that he was allowed to continue using the titles he was born with. The same decree also created him a Count, so that his children had titles (they would otherwise have none). His wife didn't 'achieve' nobility by marriage.

I think everyone knew that if the marriage lasted that Tessy and the children would be upgraded. It seemed the right thing for him to remain a Prince which only made the "upgrade" seem more natural.

I agree, the eventual 'upgrade' seemed to be the expected, although it did come earlier than I thought.

No, she is not a princess in her own right it stated that she may now call herself not that she had been granted the title in her own right. He made a statement that she would now be known as Princess Tessy of Luxembourg with HRH he did NOT issue a Grand Ducal decree creating her a Princess of Luxembourg which is what would have happened had he made her a Princess in her own right.

I understood that the Grand Duke had created Tessy a Princess in her own right, as the earlier reports and comments here suggested. However, judging by the wording of the later reports and some of the comments here, she simply assumed her husband's styles and titles (even if it isn't the custom in the Luxembourg, that's what it is called everywhere else). In which case, the correct form of address is Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg, not Princess Tessy of Luxembourg (which would indicate she had, after all, been bestowed with the title of a Princess in her own right).

[Madame Royale]

I couldn't care why she and her children were granted styles and titles, I just think it lovely that they were.

[Lalla Meriem]

Originally Posted by Marsel

Thank you for answering my question, Lalla Meriem! :)



That does seem to resemble the Dutch situation; Johan Friso didn't get (or seek) the consent of the Monarch/the Parliament. A special Decree was issued that specified that he was allowed to continue using the titles he was born with. The same decree also created him a Count, so that his children had titles (they would otherwise have none). His wife didn't 'achieve' nobility by marriage.



I agree, the eventual 'upgrade' seemed to be the expected, although it did come earlier than I thought.



I understood that the Grand Duke had created Tessy a Princess in her own right, as the earlier reports and comments here suggested. However, judging by the wording of the later reports and some of the comments here, she simply assumed her husband's styles and titles (even if it isn't the custom in the Luxembourg, that's what it is called everywhere else). In which case, the correct form of address is Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg, not Princess Tessy of Luxembourg (which would indicate she had, after all, been bestowed with the title of a Princess in her own right).

She is now HRH Princess Tessy of Luxembourg not Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg, and this styling does not indicate she has been created a Princess in her own right. Being known as Princess Tessy merely follows the custom and wording of the September 21, 1995 Decree on titles within the family which also covered titles of spouses. According to the decree governing titles even Louis is legally styled as HRH Louis de Nassau, Prince of Luxembourg as are all other members of the family, however, they are all officially styled HRH Prince/ss Name of Luxembourg (or Nassau). Thus, in respect to her title being solely in relation to her marriage to a Prince of the House of Nassau she should legally be HRH Tessy de Nassau, Princess of Luxembourg and her form of address is HRH Princess Tessy of Luxembourg. In Luxembourg being Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg or even Maria-Teresa, Grand Duchess of Luxembourg is not the custom. It would simply be unnatural for Tessy to be Tessy, Princess while every other spouse (also not Princesses in their own right) are Princess HerName considering the whole point of this process was to make her equal to all the other current/future spouses of the Princes of the house.

There is no provision or custom on Luxembourg for Princesses Tessy, Alexandra, Julie, Sybilla, Marie-Astrid, ect, to be known publicly as Name, Princess of Luxembourg/Nassau. This form of address indicates nothing and would, in fact, be unnatural and out of place in Luxembourg. This form of address does not even exist for the ex-wife of a Prince. The only time you would ever see a Prince or Princess of Luxembourg or Nassau listed as, for example, HRH Tessy de Nassau, Princess of Luxembourg or HRH Félix de Nassau, Prince of Luxembourg would be on legal documents such as passports, birth certificates, marriage certificates and death certificates.

The legal styling/name of Tessy and everyone else and their official form of address are 2 totally different animals.

Although, the situation is most certainly different for her sons who most assuredly are Princes of Nassau now as if from birth. There will be a decree published concerning this matter just as for the children of Jean and Robert.

No, Prince Louis has not regained his place in the line of succession. There is, currently, no provision in Luxembourg (as there is in Belgium) that would make such a fete possible.

[Lalla Meriem]

Originally Posted by sgl

The official photo that has been released of the Grand Duke and Duchess sitting in chairs with Louis and Tessy behind them looks (to me) as if they had a meeting and formally declared the new titles. Would they have done this without issuing some sort of decree? (I'm not being argumentative, I'm simply asking out of cluelessness)

It is still possible for them to do charity work,even though they live in Switzerland. They come home to Luxembourg for events such as this, and Louis would have breaks from school. Tessy has accompanied Maria-Teresa to a Red Cross event in the past, and I think that it would be great to see them getting more involved in some of the more charitable aspects of royal life (IMO).

Well, I'm rather certain that a decree has been issued and will be published in Memorial next month concerning the titles of the 2 young princes.

The decree will likely be worded exactly the same as that of the family of Prince Jean and Prince Robert. Which will state that Tessy is "allowed to use" the title Princess of Luxembourg with HRH and that the children are Prince of Nassau with HRH and this also applying to other children born. The decree will also state, just as the others have, that the provision of article 4 of the September 21, 1995 decree is in force concerning Tessy being allowed to use the Luxembourg title which mirrors Louis'.

[antonieta]

Congratulations to the new princess and princes!

[sgl]

Thank you, Lalla Meriem for your explanations. I have no clue how Lux law works, and I am grateful for your explanations. I am pleased to hear that any decree issued will be published. I am very happy for Louis, Tessy, and their family.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by gardenia8

She is not a princess in her own right.

Henri M. On another royalty board said the following:
"Tessy is not created anything. The Grand Duke now simply has finally followed the traditional custom that the legally wedded spouse of a titled person can be addressed with her husband's style and titles."

Henri can say what he likes but unfortunately he often does so on Boards and Forums as a shove it in your face fact.That,however is only very seldom the case.He is missing out on this one again too,regardless of all explanations.She is a HRH in her very own right,it is so simple,yet many think they need each . and , to be explained.

[maria-olivia]

Is Diane de Guerre also Son Altesse Royale Diane de Luxembourg ?
I mean Prince Jean junior 's new wife.

[Shaiya]

To be honest, I think this Henri M. person is right. I don't think Tessy is now a princess in her own right but rather by virtue of her marriage.

[laduchesse]

That's great news to hear Tessy and the boys have been titled princess and princes respectively. I agree that it was a wise decision for the Grand Duke to wait to bestow such titles. Tessy and her husband had enough on their hands as a young married couple with a baby (then another child).

[Lalla Meriem]

Well, I can say that I'm certain that she isn't princess in her own right. Princess Julie was in a similar situation and she isn't Princess of Nassau in her own right. The whole Princess in her own right concept doesn't actually exist in Luxembourg.

No statement has been released concerning the titles of Prince Jean's new wife. She will likely be upgraded in the near future if she hasn't already acquired a title. In the past it has been the custom to combine such matters (eg. the matter of the families of Robert and Jean were combined in the same decree) so it is possible that Diane's title, if any, will also be mentioned in the decree to be published.

[LaPlusBelle]

I am so happy for them! The babies are so cute, I wish them all the best!!

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem

Well, I can say that I'm certain that she isn't princess in her own right. Princess Julie was in a similar situation and she isn't Princess of Nassau in her own right. The whole Princess in her own right concept doesn't actually exist in Luxembourg.

No statement has been released concerning the titles of Prince Jean's new wife. She will likely be upgraded in the near future if she hasn't already acquired a title. In the past it has been the custom to combine such matters (eg. the matter of the families of Robert and Jean were combined in the same decree) so it is possible that Diane's title, if any, will also be mentioned in the decree to be published.

Grand Duke Henri elevated her to the rank of Princess of Luxembourg,not by courtesy,but in Her own right.If the Grand Duke states such,that is worth more then a tad more then what the next weirdo at the forums thinks he /she knows.Which is mostly close to nada
except that they can hide that fact well.

The opinion of the Grand Ducal Court and its subsequent actions mean far more then any comment-lack of knowledge-or argumentave little someone at any Board or Forum.Their opinion,oh shock,is of no importance nor consequence.At all.And a statement WAS released three days ago,if you don´t wish to see that,or can´t read Letzebùrgisch,swell,but it is out there all the same.

[Lakshmi]

It is exactly what I predicted: Tessy and two boys will get princely titles. The same story happened with Henri's brother: his wife and kids got princely title a few years after wedding. Anyway, congrats to a young family.

[Kelly]

That was such a nice gesture on his behalf.

[Lalla Meriem]

Originally Posted by lucien

Grand Duke Henri elevated her to the rank of Princess of Luxembourg,not by courtesy,but in Her own right.If the Grand Duke states such,that is worth more then a tad more then what the next weirdo at the forums thinks he /she knows.Which is mostly close to nada
except that they can hide that fact well.

The opinion of the Grand Ducal Court and its subsequent actions mean far more then any comment-lack of knowledge-or argumentave little someone at any Board or Forum.Their opinion,oh shock,is of no importance nor consequence.At all.And a statement WAS released three days ago,if you don´t wish to see that,or can´t read Letzebùrgisch,swell,but it is out there all the same.

No, he did not. And, yes a STATEMENT was released several days ago this is NOT, however, a grand ducal decree which IS required for the creation of new titles - period! If you cannot tell the difference in a public statement to the press and a grand ducal decree (which is necessary for the creation of a new title or even elevation) which is an instrument of law then why are you even bothering to argue the matter. The Grand Duke cannot create a title via press release!! He will have issued a Grand Ducal Decree exercising his privilege under Article 1 Section 40 of the Luxembourg Constitution and this decree will require the counter signature of a member of his government.

We aren't all weirdos. Some of us actually DO read the legal text associated with matters of titles, succession and inheritance in the monarchies that interest us.

And, furthermore, that public statement does NOT say he created her a Princess of anything in her own right.

We should stop focusing on this circular argument because those who want to believe she somehow became a princess of Luxembourg in her own right by having an illegitimate child and a marriage without consent when all the princesses who were approved didn't receive such an honor will never be convinced by the legalities associated with titles in Luxembourg. I'm not knocking Tessy, because I think she's done a fantastic job. However, I do think that to assume that she has been rewarded with a title of her very own separate from Louis' is ridiculous to even consider.

Let's just be happy for them!

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem

Let's just be happy for them!

Indeed. Any further catty remarks in this thread about princess Tessy or about each other will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning.

Please stay polite and stay on topic. Giving moral judgment about princess Tessy (and her husband) won't be accepted, neither will name calling and such. If you can't stick to these simple rules, please refrain from posting.

Thank you,

the Luxembourg moderators.