A Son for Félix and Claire - Liam Henri Hartmut: November 28, 2016

[PrincessElena]

I'm going to disagree with you.
Neither Froilan, Luana and Zaria have that names as their first, Froilan is Felipe, Luana is Emma and Zaria is Joanna (the same as Josephine which has Ivalo on her name, but no one says that, at least Josephine is her first name).
How come Noah is untraditional? It's a biblical name, biblical names are the most traditional for me.
And Sverre is a common nordic name, especially in Norway, it was not unexpected like Estelle's.
Anunciata is very traditional name, it's a religious name. We don't use that name nowadays because it's "too old" for people of this generation, but it's not unique, it has lots of history especially for Spain.

I thought Froilan was actually referred to as Felipe, "Pipe", in his family, Froilan is merely used by the media.

 

[Barbara21]

Cute pictures of the family. Amalia is so cute.
Liam is a surprising name, but I like it. Prince Liam sounds good.
I'm surprised that, Marie isn´t part of the name.

 

[crm2317]

I thought Froilan was actually referred to as Felipe, "Pipe", in his family, Froilan is merely used by the media.

His full name is Felipe Juan Froilan but as far as I know he is known as Froilan

 

[4Pam]

Beautiful name! Glad to see Mom & baby are doing well! Congratulations again to their families!

 

[GracieGiraffe]

I too am surprised by Liam. Its is a traditional name, albeit a Gaelic one. It does honor the various family members bearing some form of Guillaume.

Re: Vincent - I must be the only one who finds it regal and wonderful, even if no other prince has used it. I've gotten used to Estelle. Both are traditional.

Interesting how the royals are moving away from the tried and true names and branching out a bit.

 

[rominet09]

I too am surprised by Liam. Its is a traditional name, albeit a Gaelic one. It does honor the various family members bearing some form of Guillaume.

Re: Vincent - I must be the only one who finds it regal and wonderful, even if no other prince has used it. I've gotten used to Estelle. Both are traditional.

Interesting how the royals are moving away from the tried and true names and branching out a bit.

I like that name but I always thought that in a Royal family, the best was traditional names

 

[carlota]

I'm going to disagree with you.
Neither Froilan, Luana and Zaria have that names as their first, Froilan is Felipe, Luana is Emma and Zaria is Joanna (the same as Josephine which has Ivalo on her name, but no one says that, at least Josephine is her first name).

mmmm - not really. froilan, zaria and luana aren't their first names but they are the names they go by.

check the official webpage of the dutch royal family, and you'll see that zaria and luana are referred as zaria and luana - not as emma or joanna. you can see this in the website 'in memoriam' of prince friso:

https://www.royal-house.nl/members-royal-house/in-memoriam/contents/prince-friso

'The second son of Princess Beatrix and Prince Claus, Prince Friso married Mabel Wisse Smit in 2004. Two daughters were born of the marriage: Luana (2005) and Zaria (2006). The Prince died on 12 August at the age of 44 at Huis ten Bosch Palace in The Hague.'

if i remember correctly, even their parents (mabel and friso*) said those would be the names they would refer to them as.

(*: there you go! even their dad used his second name and not his first, johan. see link above)

as for froilan, even if his first name if felipe, he is referred in the press all the time as froilan.

for example, google 'felipe marichalar' vs 'froilan marichalar' and you'll get 2,390 results vs 50,000 results!

same for luana and zaria:

"countess emma luana", and you get 1,200 google results
"countess luana", and you get 6,450 results!

same for zaria: 6,120 vs 1,680!

and josephine (or many, many other royals), they have several names but they use their first ones as most people do, but that doesn't apprear the case for froilan, zaria and luana (or friso).

 

[Countessmeout]

I'm going to disagree with you.
Neither Froilan, Luana and Zaria have that names as their first, Froilan is Felipe, Luana is Emma and Zaria is Joanna (the same as Josephine which has Ivalo on her name, but no one says that, at least Josephine is her first name).
How come Noah is untraditional? It's a biblical name, biblical names are the most traditional for me.
And Sverre is a common nordic name, especially in Norway, it was not unexpected like Estelle's.
Anunciata is very traditional name, it's a religious name. We don't use that name nowadays because it's "too old" for people of this generation, but it's not unique, it has lots of history especially for Spain.

Traditional in the common sense and traditional in the royal sense are very different. Berths, Bessie, Nellie, Walter sad frank are all very traditional names but can you see William and Kate naming their next kid princes Bertha or Prince frank of Cambridge. Estelle is a very traditional old fashioned name, and one found in the extended family. And yet it is complained, because it doesn't sound Royal.

Same goes for names like Noah. It and Gabriel are very traditionsl but not Royal.

Sverre may be traditionsl Nordic, but it has been centuries since it has been used by the Norwegian royals. There was a twelfth century king.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Liam has a fine name. Liam is a derivative of Guillaume.

 

[Lindy]

His full name is Felipe Juan Froilan but as far as I know he is known as Froilan

"Although he is generally referred to by the press as Froilán so as not to confuse him with his uncle, the King, or his cousin, Juan Urdangarin, he is called Felipe in the family." "He does not like being called Froilan. His mother named him after her brother, the then Prince of Asturias, Felipe." His nickname is Pipe.
Familia Real: Pipe (Froilán) se ha hecho mayor | Estilo | EL PAÍS

The royal family is not too happy that he is referred to as Froilan. The same thing happened with Princess Cristina's sons, who are referred to by the press as Juan Valentin and Pablo Nicolas, rather than by just their first names. As a result, Miquel and Irene were not given any additional Christian names other than "de Todos los Santos" (of All the Saints.) The same may be true for Leonor and Sofia.

 

[carlota]

"Although he is generally referred to by the press as Froilán so as not to confuse him with his uncle, the King, or his cousin, Juan Urdangarin, he is called Felipe in the family." "He does not like being called Froilan. His mother named him after her brother, the then Prince of Asturias, Felipe." His nickname is Pipe.
Familia Real: Pipe (Froilán) se ha hecho mayor | Estilo | EL PAÍS

The royal family is not too happy that he is referred to as Froilan. The same thing happened with Princess Cristina's sons, who are referred to by the press as Juan Valentin and Pablo Nicolas, rather than by just their first names. As a result, Miquel and Irene were not given any additional Christian names other than "de Todos los Santos" (of All the Saints.) The same may be true for Leonor and Sofia.

interesting, i didn't know the differences between juan and pablo having several names and miguel and irene not having them because of how the press referred to their siblings. i guess it makes sense.

i did hear about froilan (felipe) not wanting to be referred to as froilan. however, as of today, that is mainly how he is referred - i guess, like you say, to not confuse him with the king. proof above in the 50 thousand results by google when you search him by froilan! i am sure he introduces himself as felipe or pipe to friends. regardless, froilan is an unusual name and not very heard of in spain. perhaps it comes from jaime's family?

as an interesting anecdote, i remember during leonor's christening, letizia was asked if leonor had more names than leonor. she shrugged, hesitated for a bit and someone in the background (I guess another journalist) wanting to confirm if she'd have the traditional 'de todos los santos' said that name in assertion almost. and letizia responded hesitantly to the person 'de todos los santos?' almost with an interrogative intonation in her voice. her reaction was funny because it almost sounded like they didn't think about any other names and were caught by surprise. but in the end, leonor did have the 'de todos los santos' addendum.

Traditional in the common sense and traditional in the royal sense are very different. Berths, Bessie, Nellie, Walter sad frank are all very traditional names but can you see William and Kate naming their next kid princes Bertha or Prince frank of Cambridge. Estelle is a very traditional old fashioned name, and one found in the extended family. And yet it is complained, because it doesn't sound Royal.

Same goes for names like Noah. It and Gabriel are very traditionsl but not Royal.

Sverre may be traditionsl Nordic, but it has been centuries since it has been used by the Norwegian royals. There was a twelfth century king.

yes, i think you explained well the difference between traditional and 'likely to be used by a royal'. noah, gabriel and estelle are indeed not untraditional names, yet for some reason the likelihood that they'd be chosen by a royal family is low.

 

[Ish]

Traditional in the common sense and traditional in the royal sense are very different. Berths, Bessie, Nellie, Walter sad frank are all very traditional names but can you see William and Kate naming their next kid princes Bertha or Prince frank of Cambridge. Estelle is a very traditional old fashioned name, and one found in the extended family. And yet it is complained, because it doesn't sound Royal.

Same goes for names like Noah. It and Gabriel are very traditionsl but not Royal.

Sverre may be traditionsl Nordic, but it has been centuries since it has been used by the Norwegian royals. There was a twelfth century king.

Bessie and Nellie are nicknames for Elizabeth and Eleanor, which are traditional British royal family names.

Estelle is a traditional French and English name, but is not popular in Sweden at all (or wasn't before Estelle's birth). I saw an article that claimed that there was only about 1,200 people in Sweden named Estelle. The member of the extended family that had that name was the American born wife of Folk Bernadotte.

Gabriel isn't actually that unusual in the Luxembourg family - it's one of Grand Duke Henri's middle names, and either it or Gabrielle are in at least 3 other living family members' names.

Sverre is a traditional and popular Norwegian name that likely ceased to be used in Norwegian royalty because Norwegian royalty ceased to be Norwegian - from the middle of the 14th century up until the start of the 20th, Norway was in a series of unions with Sweden and/or Denmark, and the royal names during that time really reflect that. Sverre, incidentally, is the name of the last dynasty to be fully Norwegian prior to the first union with Sweden.

Liam is an interesting pick. It's a variation of a very common name in the family (Guillaume), but one that is essentially foreign (being Irish).

 

[Frelinghighness]

What an adorable picture of amailia and the baby. Two beautiful children

 

[Spheno]

Liam is an interesting pick. It's a variation of a very common name in the family (Guillaume), but one that is essentially foreign (being Irish).

Wikipedia says it's also French name. Felix and his family live in France.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvUZS7O5rEo

 

[Spheno]

Estelle is a very traditional old fashioned name, and one found in the extended family. And yet it is complained, because it doesn't sound Royal.

It doesn't sound Royal and it doesn't sound Swedish.
King's/Queen's name is a powerful brand, representing their country. Wrong name sends wrong message to the world.
Minor royal are usually only locally known and such names as Liam sound well for them.

 

[Ish]

Wikipedia says it's also French name. Felix and his family live in France.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvUZS7O5rEo

France is a Wikipedia inaccuracy.

The name "William" originated in the Frankish Empire and came to the British isles via the Norman Conquest. The name "Liam" is an Irish derivative of the name "William". That's the French connection. The French equivalent is Guillaume.

Now, that said, the Irish name Liam has becoming popular in France, so that might be why the couple chose it, particularly as Guillaume is used a lot in the family already.

 

[Stefan]

particularly as Guillaume is used a lot in the family already.

But there are only 2 members of the Family who have Guillaume as their call name. That are not really much.

 

[Countessmeout]

It doesn't sound Royal and it doesn't sound Swedish.
King's/Queen's name is a powerful brand, representing their country. Wrong name sends wrong message to the world.
Minor royal are usually only locally known and such names as Liam sound well for them.

Victoria is German. Madeleine is French. Philip is Greek. The only one born in the last two generations with a full Swedish name is Oscar.


Ish.... Again what is common like Sverre for common Norwegians and what us common for royals are two different matters. And Nell is actually very traditional as a first name, not short for Eleanor. There have been a Nell every generation in my grandmothers family, called Nellie as a nickname. Same goes for Bessie. You can't seriously be saying if Charlotte had been named princess Bessie you would have been okay. It's one thing name her Elizabeth and use the nickname Bessie, but to legally name her Bessie ? That is Liam. It would be one thing if they named him guillaume and said they planned to call him Liam to distinguish from his uncle.

Gabriel is unusual as a Firs name. Just like if guillaume has a son named Markus. Almost every son in the family may have Markus de aviano as a middle name, but doesn't mean it would be a customary first name. Henri has it because it is a nod to his godparents. Henri is Henri Felix Albert Marie guillaume. Felix is of course for his grandfather, and Albert and Gabriel are for his godparents, Albert II of Belgium and Marie Gabrielle of Luxembourg.

 

[Ish]

But there are only 2 members of the Family who have Guillaume as their call name. That are not really much.

There are 2 who have Guillaume as a call name, and 10 who have it as a middle name. Which means that more than half of the men in the family have it in their name.

 

[Tiggersk8]

Good Lord, you'd think it was Victorian times the way some are going on about this sweet little boy's name. It's 2016 for crying out loud!! Prince Liam sounds perfectly lovely *and* Royal.

Congratulations to Felix, Claire and Amalia on the adorable new addition to the Family!! May little Prince Liam bring them nothing but love and joy!!


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I'm another who is rather surprised by the little prince's name - Amalia is more of a common regal name (it has regularly been used amongst the Germanic royal/noble families; and Claire is also from Germany originally) so I wasn't too surprised when I heard it. On a more personal level I'm not fond of the name Liam itself; but perhaps after hearing "Prince Liam" more regularly, it will grow on me and I'll get used to it; which is what happened to me with Estelle.

It seems that some of the modern royal parents are getting more adventurous (for royalty) with their name choices; or perhaps Félix and Claire thought that, considering Liam is the second born child of minor members of the GD family, they can be more relaxed about their name choice - Liam won't be a Grand Duke so he is less significant, in the terms of succession. We'll never know (unless the couple ever say in an interview) what other 'non royal' sounding names they liked for Amalia, so it could be possible that Liam was one of the names they considered for her before they found out that she was a girl.
NB: This is all just my personal thoughts and I don't mean any harm by them (of course, you're obviously entitled to disagree with them if you do; it's just that I don't mean to offend anyone or come across as overreacting). I'm just putting my viewpoints into post form.

 

[Denville]

Liam? That's interesting, it is of course the Irish for William. Is there any Irish blood in Felix's wife's family?

 

[Rayarena]

Liam? That's interesting, it is of course the Irish for William. Is there any Irish blood in Felix's wife's family?

To my knowledge, the only Irish blood in Felix comes in interestingly enough through his mother, Grand Duchess Maria Teresa. It's very distant dating back to the 1600's. Maria Teresa comes from a very wealthy ennobled family in Cuba that was founded when an Irish businessman, Richard O'Farrill O'Daly, who was born in Monserratt, but whose family came from Londonderry, County Londonderry, UK married a creole countess. Felix would no doubt be aware of his Irish ancestor since he was so instrumental in Maria Teresa's family history. Perhaps Liam is in honor of this ancestor?

 

[Denville]

That's interesting. The form "Liam" is I think more common now in the UK, because of course there are a lot of Irish people living there.. and the Iirsh names have crossed over. but it IS unusual for a Continental Royal to use that form, Guillaume, Wilhelm, WIlliam. are versions that are used.. quite frequently....but Liam's unusual. Maybe they just like the sound and that it is short and simple.. and the baby is nto that close to the throne..so they can be more flexible. Amalia's name is more convnetional.
His other name Hartnog? that's strange to me. Where does that come from.

 

[sjetajiem]

Hartmut is the name of Princess Claire's father

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

That's interesting. The form "Liam" is I think more common now in the UK, because of course there are a lot of Irish people living there.. and the Iirsh names have crossed over. but it IS unusual for a Continental Royal to use that form, Guillaume, Wilhelm, WIlliam. are versions that are used.. quite frequently....but Liam's unusual. Maybe they just like the sound and that it is short and simple.. and the baby is nto that close to the throne..so they can be more flexible. Amalia's name is more convnetional.
His other name Hartnog? that's strange to me. Where does that come from.

Liam's other names are after his paternal and maternal grandfathers, respectively. This was the same for Amalia, but named for her paternal and maternal grandmothers

 

[Denville]

Sorry I shoudl have checked to get the name right. Does anyone know what it means, Hartmut? I think that it is a nice mix, a name tehy like, and the names of a relative on each side..

 

[Lee-Z]

Does anyone know what it means, Hartmut? .

Behind the Name: Meaning, origin and history of the name Hartmut

 

[ricarda]

Hartmut is an old Germanic name and means "Brave/Strong (=hart) Mind (=mut)".

 

[Bamboleio]

I used to think about Joachim&Marie's choice of name for Athena as the most nonstandard and surprising. I don't want to offend anyone, but Danish Princess with such a Greek name, I mean, it must have been shock for the Danes, even though she is unlikely to become a Crown Princess/Queen.
But Prince Liam sounds even more strange to me, like the name of the hero from movies kind of "The Princess Diaries" and so on.
But I think it's OK,considering the fact that he most likely won't become a monarch someday