The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:33 AM
irishthanhy's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Columbus, United States
Posts: 49
Prince of Bourbon-Parma?

I am very confused on this matter, so I'm hoping someone will be able to clear this up.

From my understanding HRH Grand Duke Jean gave up the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for himself and his descendants. I have seen the title applied to HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume (only him, however) occasionally with the note 'since 2001' and I keep wondering why.

Thanks in advance to any one who can answer.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Next Star's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 874
The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.
__________________

__________________
Patience is a virtue.

I'm head of a dynastic house no matter what others say.
Princess Kamorrissa,Countess of Welle
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-05-2008, 05:13 PM
USCtrojan's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Phoenix, United States
Posts: 1,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star View Post
The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.
I was going to say the exact same thing until I read your post Next Star. Dropped that along time ago.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2008, 04:44 AM
irishthanhy's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Columbus, United States
Posts: 49
That's what I figured at first. The 'since 2001' threw me off.

Thanks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2008, 07:02 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Marton, New Zealand
Posts: 30
I was reading information on http://www.nettyroyal.nl/luxembourg1.html website and it said that HRH Grand Duke Jean that on July 28th 1987 he abandoned the titled Prince of Bourbon of Parme.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-15-2008, 11:04 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 31
Well, Grand Duke Henri has granted Guillaume the Title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma when he created Guillaume Hereditary Grand Duke on December 18, 2000.

http://www.gouvernement.lu/salle_presse/actualite/2000/12/18guillaume/index.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-16-2008, 08:45 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,230
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Italy, Italy
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:34 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
You are indeed correct concerning the rights to the non-existant throne of Parma. Henri is as sovereign head of state, however, free to bestow any title he pleases upon Guillaume. He probably granted Guillaume the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for historic reasons.

In Germany titles are now part of a person's name and therefore cannot be taken away anymore by the head of a (royal or noble) house.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:40 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count View Post
Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!
Well, discussions about succession rights to non-existant thrones are a source of never-ending amusement, aren't they?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:20 AM
firelight's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gotham City, Niue
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess21 View Post
I was reading information on http://www.nettyroyal.nl/luxembourg1.html website and it said that HRH Grand Duke Jean that on July 28th 1987 he abandoned the titled Prince of Bourbon of Parme.
Why did he do that? What was the benefit in giving up the title? Did he give up the rights to the throne of Parma as well or was it only the title that he stopped using?

I'm a little confused now! So Guillaume does indeed hold the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma because his father bestowed it on him. But he has no right to the 'throne of Parma' because Henri and MT's marriage was considered morganatic. Have I got that straight?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:50 AM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
The official titles of the sovereigns of Luxembourg are (in French): Grand Duc de Luxembourg, Duc de Nassau, Comte du Rhine, Comte de Sayn, Königstein, Katzenelnbogen et Diez, Vicomte d'Hammerstein, Seigneur de Mahlberg, Wiesbaden, Idstein, Merenberg, Limbourg et d'Eppstein with the style Altesse Royale (Royal Highness).

The official title of the heir to the throne is: Prince Héréditaire de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The heir to the throne is usually granted the titles Grand Duc Héréditaire de Luxembourg, Prince Héréditaire de Nassau after he has reached the age of 18.
Grand Duke Adolphe's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Grand-Ducale (Grand-Ducal Highness).
Grand Duchess Charlotte's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28th, 1986 Grand Duke Jean renounced the title Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme and adopted the family name Nassau for himself and his family. (As MAfan wrote by the reason was unequal marriage of Henri to MT as CarlosHugo said.)

By Grand-Ducal Decree of September 21st, 1995 is established that the children of the sovereign and the children of the heir to the throne will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The other members of the family will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale. A prince who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comte de Nassau, his wife will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau and their children will bear the title Comte/Comtesse de Nassau. A princess who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of November 27th, 2004 the children of Prince Jean and the wife and children of Prince Robert have been granted the personal title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of February 3rd, 2006 the surname of the Grand-Ducal family has been altered from "Nassau" into "de Nassau".
Henri van Oene's Royal Genealogies Page

About
HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Prince of Bourbon-Parma

(Since July 28th, 1986:) HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg
(Since October 7th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau
(Since December 18th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie Nassau of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma
* Maternité Grande Duchesse Charlotte, Luxembourg, November 11th, 1981
Hereditary Prince of Luxembourg, October 7th, 2000. Created Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma, December 18th, 2000 http://www.geocities.com/dagtho/luxdecree20001218.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-26-2008, 08:55 AM
firelight's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gotham City, Niue
Posts: 114
Magnik, you're a gem! Thank you for your detailed info.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-09-2011, 06:45 AM
monica17's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Little Baguio, Philippines
Posts: 820
Well, I don't get why the Princes/Princesses of Luxembourg borne out of Grand Duke Henri's 's marriage (and others who married morganatically) are still styled at HRH. Luxemburg is a Grand Duchy, the style should be GDH.

However, since GD Jean was a Prince of Bourbon-Parma in the male line, he and his descendants were entitled to the style HRH if they married an "equal"... for although it ruled a duchy only, the House of Bourbon-Parma was a cadet line of Spanish royals (as well as descended from the short-lived Kings of Etruria). The marriage of Grand Duke Henri was considered morganatic by the late Duke Carlos Hugo, ex head of the house, and his descendants no longer Prince/Princess of Bourbon-Parma, why are they still using the style HRH?

I've read that the Grand Duchy of Hesse also used the style HRH for the reigning grand duke and heir apparent but they aren't descended from kings either....

Don't get me wrong, I like the GDF of Luxembourg very much - and they are descended from my favourite royal couple, Archduchess Maria Amalia of Austria and Duke Ferdinand of Parma - but I'm just confused as to why they are styled HRH.... Duke Adolphe of not of royal lineage (not descended from kings but rather Dukes of Nassau) either but styled as HRH once he became Grand Duke.
__________________
Monica17

Kindness is the magic elixir of love - The Practice of Kindness
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-11-2013, 10:36 AM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 458

Actually, Adolf, William IV, Marie-Adelaide and Charlotte are all descended in male line from a king - King Adolf of Germany (1255 - 1298). That has nothing to do with their entitlement to the style of Royal Highness, but it does make it incorrect to state that they are not descended from any king in male line

Anyway, Grand Duke Jean entirely reversed his 1986 decision in 1995, thus resuming the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma (Prince de Bourbon de Parme). Grand Duke Henri thus did not really grant the title to his eldest son in 2000; his sons had already held it.

In fact, Grand Duchess Charlotte created the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for her husband as a Luxembourgian noble title. You can compare this creation with Queen Beatrix's creation of the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma in Dutch nobility.

To sum it up: the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and his family are indeed princes(ses) of Bourbon-Parma
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bourbon-parma


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince Jaime (1972-) and Princess Viktória (1982-) of Bourbon-Parma CountessofLuxembourg Royal Families of Italy 105 Today 12:08 PM
Princess Maria-Carolina of Bourbon-Parma (1974- ) and Albert Brenninkmeijer Marengo Royal Families of Italy 32 02-23-2014 09:45 AM
HRH Duke Carlos Hugo (1930-2010) and the Royal House of Bourbon-Parma morgaine Royal Families of Italy 160 08-14-2013 02:14 PM
Princess Irene of the Netherlands and Prince Carlos-Hugo of Bourbon-Parma; 29-4-1964 Marengo Royal Weddings 42 04-10-2013 08:22 AM
Prince Carlos of Bourbon-Parma [now Duke of Parma] (1970- ) (2005 - April 2010) Alexandria Royal Families of Italy 25 10-20-2010 06:45 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth birthday bourbon-parma camilla chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria danish royals engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hohenzollern infanta elena king abdullah king abdullah ii king albert ii king carl xvi gustav king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander norway palace picture thread pom pregnancy prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince frederik prince henrik prince joachim prince laurent princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess annette princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess haya princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marie princess marilene princess mary princess maxima queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sheikh state visit wedding willem-alexander william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]