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  #101  
Old 11-22-2010, 02:33 PM
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So who can't be a HGDss?
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  #102  
Old 11-22-2010, 03:02 PM
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I don't think that Lily Allen or Paris Hilton need apply.

The decision rest with Guillaume (and Henri). I don't think that a woman with a history of drug use, outlandish behavior, publich nudity or a criminal background would be considered. A lot of things have changed. Mette-Marit and Maxima have proven that even women with questionable backgrounds and a family history that isn't exactly spotless can make a successful transition. Keep in mind that back in 1980 even Maria Teresa's approval took many by surprise. I still think that some princes (hello Carl Philip) are taking it to the extreme with what they are asking people to accept. Princesses become examples to young women in these nation. No one wants a HGDss that has posed nude, committed crimes, or had a Paris Hilton like desire for media at any cost.

I simply take a commonsense approace to what I think is acceptable in a woman that is supposed to represent the best of a nation. I have an open mind and believe that anyone deserves a second chance. I just don't want my royals becoming so common that stripper, glamour model, shoplifter and drug addict are acceptable on the resumé of a future princess or Grand Duchess.
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  #103  
Old 11-22-2010, 09:34 PM
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The family background of the woman would also be taken into consideration when deciding if she's suitable for marriage.

This would be an interesting situation. An aristocratic couple who can't have children find a newborn baby on their doorstep when they return from a walk on the beach. There is a note attached giving the date, place and time of birth. Police are called and after several weeks of investigation, the biological parents aren't found. The couple adopt the child who is female.

Now an adult the child whose now a woman mets an heir to the throne and they fall in love. Just one problem. The biological family of this woman is unknown. The family who raised her are good people and would be an asset to the family. Investigators are hired to find the biological parents with no success. The story is leaked to the press in hopes that the biological parents will be found to no success.

Medical and genetic tests find the woman in excellent health, no genetic disorders. The lingering question of who the biological parents are is a major concern.

It would be interesting how different royal housholds would respond to this or how a PM or parliment would respond to something like this if they were indirectly involved in this.
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  #104  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem View Post
The head of the house (reigning Grand Duke/Duchess or regent) grants consent and then informs the Chamber of Deputies of his/her decision.

Although the decision rests fully with Henri, I suspect that he would discuss the marriage of his heir with members of his government/advisors before making his final decision. I'm sure if he had any reason to doubt the character or ability of the young woman in question he would seek the opinion of his government (particurally in the case of Guillaume not necessarily so in the case of "lesser" members).

I found relevant decree concerning the titles of Mlle. Maria Teresa Mestre and Mlle. Sibilla Weiller but no decree of consent. I also found naturalisation records for Princess Josephine-Charlotte and Mlle. Sibilla Weiller but not Maria Teresa. I couldn't find any sort of consent decree that would require counter signature by a member of the government for anyone. This goes along with my reading of the relevant documents that imply the head of the house grants his consent and informs the government. Theoretically speaking, the government plays no role in the approval/rejection of a potional spouse. Realistically, I have no doubt that the government could impress upon Henri their lack of interest in having a woman of a certain background become their HGDss.

Thank you! With every Royal house having different rules, I get confused sometimes.

So for example, with Princess Tessy, did Henri agree they should be married but the government didn't? Is that why Louis had to renounce his rights in succession? Or was it only because they had a child out of wedlock? And if I'm not mistake, Louis is still not in line but he and Tessy have titles.
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  #105  
Old 11-23-2010, 05:04 AM
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I'm not sure if that was made known or if it's just my "instinct."

However, if they got married with permission, (and at that point Gabriel wasn't a Prince) any future children would have titles and any future male children be in line to the throne.

The would have possible made Gabriel feel awkward in the future.
  #106  
Old 11-23-2010, 08:28 AM
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Requiring consent keeps the riffraff out. The loss of title for marriage without consent is supposed to deter members of the house from eloping with said riffraff. It is a good system of risk and reward. Without such protection Louis could have eloped with Jenna Jameson and she could have become a Princess of Luxembourg automatically. Without this system a disgruntled 18 year old prince/ss could make a horrible marriage with disastrous consequences for the entire family. It probably also helps deter marriage unless the couple is certain of their feelings and dedication to each other.

I agree with you Robijn! I have always assumed that Louis really gave up is rights and didn't seek consent out of fairness. Gabriel could never gain succession rights. If Louis retained his rights any child born during his marriage would have automatic rights. If he had sought and received consent Tessy Antony would have become HRH Princess Tessy of Luxembourg automatically upon their marriage and any future children would have become HRH Prince/ss de Nassau. Gabriel would have had no title and no succession rights. Henri could have given him a title but not a place in the succession.

Louis relinquished his right to the throne for himself and his descendants. None of Louis' children will ever have a place in the succession. This includes Gabriel who was born before his parent's marriage, Noah who was born after, any future child born during the marriage and even any children born of any other relationship/marriage Louis may make in his lifetime. The official story is that he did this for personal and professional reasons. I find this odd because I think his title would interfere in his professional endevours more than his distant place in the line of succession.

Future children born to the union of Louis and Tessy will have the style of Royal Highness and the title of Prince/ss de Nassau. This has nothing to do with permission. The titles are based on the National Day statement that Henri issued. I can't locate a decree. I can only find a press release, which is not a legal instrument that can create a title. That is another issue...

Any additional children born to the union will be styled in the same fashion as Gabriel and Noah but from birth. No rights of succession are possible. If Louis and Tessy divorce she will cease to be a princess. People that are Tessy fans refuse to accept this. Unfortunately, it is spelled out very clearly in the legal documents that regulate titles of the family. I'm not sure that it is fair but that is SOP in most royal/noble families. Hypothetically speaking, If Louis were to remarry any title for the later wife and children would be based on the circumstances of that marriage. He could seek and gain consent and they would enjoy titles from the beginning.

I really don't know the specific circumstances surrounding the renunciation of Louis' rights, lack of consent, and titles. The reason for the decisions were private. The only information that was made public is that Louis voluntarily renounced his rights, Tessy would be Mrs. De Nassau, and the later upgrade to titles. Everything else is pure speculation.

Louis could have followed the example of Charles and married Tessy before Gabriel was born. He could have sought consent for his marriage. He could have simply married Tessy without giving up his rights. Many things could have been different. I have no doubt that Louis discussed several possible outcomes with his father in the months leading up to Gabriel's birth and his marriage to Tessy. Louis was born into this family. He was fully aware of the consequences of his actions when he gave up is rights and when he married without consent. Henri followed the same steps that his father followed in dealing with their sons. Louis, like Prince Jean, gave up his rights and married his partner only after the birth of their first child. Louis, like Jean, never lost his title but no title was forthcoming for his family. Unlike Jean's family Louis' family was never officially styled Count/ess of Nassau (despite long standing decree indicating this should have happened). Henri didn't make Louis wait very long before he upgraded the family.

The family is SO utterly inconsistent with how they deal with things, what information they release and what part of Memorial they record the information in. They also have a wonderfully infuriating habit of totally ignoring the regulations that they set out for themselves.

As I said, no one outside of the immediate circle of the family knows the specific details. One could assume many things. Maybe Louis did seek consent and it was refused. Maybe Louis didn't seek consent because his father had privately indicated to his son that he would not receive it. Perhaps, Louis decided to spare his father the indignity of having to make the decision. It is possible that it was privately agreed upon that Louis would give up his rights and the marriage would take place without consent. In exchange Louis would retain his title instead of becoming Count Louis de Nassau. We all knew that Tessy and the boys would eventually be given titles. I'm sure Louis knew this, too.

We shouldn't have any doubts about Guillaume. He knows what is expected of him. He accepted the title and position of HGD. He'll seek consent. After all the trouble surrounding his own marriage, I'm sure Henri has a healthy appreciation for the position Guillaume will be in when he finally asks for consent. It would take something serious for Henri to deny consent to the heir he has been training for 29 years.
  #107  
Old 11-23-2010, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
The family background of the woman would also be taken into consideration when deciding if she's suitable for marriage.

This would be an interesting situation. An aristocratic couple who can't have children find a newborn baby on their doorstep when they return from a walk on the beach. There is a note attached giving the date, place and time of birth. Police are called and after several weeks of investigation, the biological parents aren't found. The couple adopt the child who is female.

Now an adult the child whose now a woman mets an heir to the throne and they fall in love. Just one problem. The biological family of this woman is unknown. The family who raised her are good people and would be an asset to the family. Investigators are hired to find the biological parents with no success. The story is leaked to the press in hopes that the biological parents will be found to no success.

Medical and genetic tests find the woman in excellent health, no genetic disorders. The lingering question of who the biological parents are is a major concern.

It would be interesting how different royal housholds would respond to this or how a PM or parliment would respond to something like this if they were indirectly involved in this.
Why would the question of her biological parents be of any concern? I doubt any reasonable person would hold the circumstances of her birth/adoption against her. I really don't think they'd have any lingering questions about her birth parents.

Royals and nobles have been known to adopt children. If the adopted daughter of Count and Countess de Legoland wanted to marry an heir I doubt they'd have issue with it no matter who her bio parents turned out to be.

Even if the people that dropped her on the doorstep turned out to be international criminals it would hardly be the fault of a young women that never knew them! She may have lingering questions about her bio parents but I think everyone else would just accept her and the family that raised her.
  #108  
Old 11-23-2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem View Post
I don't think that Lily Allen or Paris Hilton need apply.
LOL, I don't think these women would want to be princesses/duchesses anyway, it would require them to keep their clothes on in public!

These heiresses have no reason to be royal they already have everything, the money, the fame, the mansions, cars, butlers etc. They just don't have the title....I'm sure they could even buy one if they really wanted to! j/k
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  #109  
Old 11-24-2010, 06:47 AM
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I wouldn't think any reasonable person would hold it against someone that they were left on a doorstep or don't know who their biological parents are. However, a King of Queen who didn't like the person their son or daughter was considering marrying might use this as an excuse or a reason why the couple shouldn't marry or even try to block the marriage. If they liked the person in question, then this would not be an issue.

If Prince Louis and Tessy had never married, would their son Gabriel be titled at all?

Since Prince Louis and Tessy didn't get married right away, it seems like this whole thing was thought through very carefully before an decision was made. I don't know how well Prince Louis family knew Tessy and if they didn't know her well, they probably proceeded with caution before any major decision was made. Perhaps they wanted to get to know her better before the couple got married.
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  #110  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:22 PM
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Tessy and their children was given the titles of Prince/ss on the National Day in 2009. If they didn't marry, the kids would probably not be given a Royal title
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  #111  
Old 11-27-2010, 05:20 PM
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Regarding his future relationships and inevitable engagement some day, that is certainly a point of speculation and interest. There are many prospective future grand duchesses out there. I have a feeling that Guillaume is a traditional sort of heir and will likely choose a wife from the ranks of royalty.[/QUOTE]

I think it might be likely - given that Luxembourg is rather small, the GD family maybe not so important to the people (I am just guessing - please do not kill me for that) and what happened to his father when he married his mother (I am refering to the rumours regarding GD Jodephine-Charlotte....) So - PLEASE - give us some nice blueblooded bride .
Ok - forget - just choose who you think you can life the rest of your life with....
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  #112  
Old 11-27-2010, 05:42 PM
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I'm sure that Guillaume married a young woman who is a blue-blooded aristocrat his family wouldn't mind. I'm sure his mother remembers the hard time that GD Josephine- Charlotte gave her and I'm sure GD Henri remembers how hard that was for MT, so I'm doubtful that they'd give his future wife a hard time.

And look at all the CP's that married into royal families, look at Daniel and let's not forget Kate & Charlene who are about to tie the knot with William & Albert. If Guillaume married a blue-blooded aristocrat just to please the people- it wouldn't be good for either one. Especially for the woman as she's the one who's going to have to adjust to life as a royal.
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  #113  
Old 11-27-2010, 11:07 PM
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I think that in todays day and age, a royal marrying a blue-blood is less important than marrying someone they love. If William can marry Kate who is not blue-blooded, I don't see why Guillaume would marry a woman just because of her family line.
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  #114  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:08 AM
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I wish he could marry Madeleine of Sweden or Gabriela Windsor.
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  #115  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:18 AM
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I think Diana's niece, Lady Kitty Spencer, should be in the list of candidates too. She's absolutely gorgeous, well educated & could possibly bring a lot of attention to Luxembourg.
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  #116  
Old 11-28-2010, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 4Pam View Post
I think Diana's niece, Lady Kitty Spencer, should be in the list of candidates too. She's absolutely gorgeous, well educated & could possibly bring a lot of attention to Luxembourg.
She's only 19. She's pretty but she looks pretty average when she isn't wearing a kilo of makeup for a magazine. AFAIK, Guillaume has moved beyond the trust fund Barbie type and into serious (not necessarily boring stay at home types), educated and very Catholic girls.

Well educated? She hasn't completed her degree yet. Does that even count as educated? A 19-year-old Spencer girl from a broken family and a 29 year old serious prince????? I think I remember this story and it didn't have a happy ending.

A 19-year-old student that is already seeking publicity with magazine interviews and tabloid articles.....probably not the best choice. IMHO, it sounds like Pia 2.0 and I think Guillaume learned his lesson already.

How about a non-celebrity or celebrity child...just an attractive woman with a college degree and a strong sense of duty, social responsibility and integrity. Extensive aristocratic family tree or previous magazine covers not required.
  #117  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:29 PM
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Well I didn't say Guillaume and Kitty should marry now. It could happen when she's 29 and he's 39- when she's more mature. And just because she's a Spencer doesn't mean she'll repeat the fate of her aunt.

I said well educated as she is a graduate of Reddam and I'm sure she received quality education from that institution. Right now she's in University of Cape Town and is considering law school- clearly she's more academic than her aunt.

You can't judge her based on what's in her family's past.

Doesn't really matter that she's on the cover of Tattler and as for tabloids they'll write anything to get people's money. She could have a strong sense of duty, socially responsible and integrity- but tabloids wouldn't say that because that's not going to sell a paper. We don't what she's like private and her character as none of us knows her personally.
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  #118  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem View Post
She's only 19. She's pretty but she looks pretty average when she isn't wearing a kilo of makeup for a magazine. AFAIK, Guillaume has moved beyond the trust fund Barbie type and into serious (not necessarily boring stay at home types), educated and very Catholic girls.

Well educated? She hasn't completed her degree yet. Does that even count as educated? A 19-year-old Spencer girl from a broken family and a 29 year old serious prince????? I think I remember this story and it didn't have a happy ending.

A 19-year-old student that is already seeking publicity with magazine interviews and tabloid articles.....probably not the best choice. IMHO, it sounds like Pia 2.0 and I think Guillaume learned his lesson already.

How about a non-celebrity or celebrity child...just an attractive woman with a college degree and a strong sense of duty, social responsibility and integrity. Extensive aristocratic family tree or previous magazine covers not required.
Slightly OTT on the critical part. You know nothing of Lady Kitty Spencer, "trust fund barbie type" where did you get this analogy from?

And how do you know he is into the serious, educated and catholic type?

So a girl has to complete a degree, before she is counted as educated? She is studying Law at University from what I can tell and I know for a fact you have to be educated to study Law in this country. In Cape Town, she studied English, Psychology and Politics.

Prince William and Harry come from a broken family, I would rather have divorced happy parents than argueing unhappy ones living under the same roof. A non-nuclear family isn't going to have that much impact on a 19 year old.

Wow, that is a massive and ridiculous step.
Linking Kitty Spencer to her Aunts failed marriage to one of the most high profiled Princes in the world?
Hardly anyone knows who Guillaume is.
Lady Sarah and Lady Jane have been happily married for years.

Kitty Spencer has done one magazine article for Tatler, a highly respectable magazine in the UK. Every other article I have seen about her, has people talking about her not her personally. She cannot help who she is, and who she is related to. But please don't go as far as saying Kitty is a dumb, uneducated blonde who would be after Guilliames title or money or whatever. I can bet my bottom dollar on the fact that she has never even heard of him.
Have you ever met her? Have you ever met him?
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  #119  
Old 11-28-2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Slightly OTT on the critical part. You know nothing of Lady Kitty Spencer, "trust fund barbie type" where did you get this analogy from?

And how do you know he is into the serious, educated and catholic type?

So a girl has to complete a degree, before she is counted as educated? She is studying Law at University from what I can tell and I know for a fact you have to be educated to study Law in this country. In Cape Town, she studied English, Psychology and Politics.

Prince William and Harry come from a broken family, I would rather have divorced happy parents than argueing unhappy ones living under the same roof. A non-nuclear family isn't going to have that much impact on a 19 year old.

Wow, that is a massive and ridiculous step.
Linking Kitty Spencer to her Aunts failed marriage to one of the most high profiled Princes in the world?
Hardly anyone knows who Guillaume is.
Lady Sarah and Lady Jane have been happily married for years.

Kitty Spencer has done one magazine article for Tatler, a highly respectable magazine in the UK. Every other article I have seen about her, has people talking about her not her personally. She cannot help who she is, and who she is related to. But please don't go as far as saying Kitty is a dumb, uneducated blonde who would be after Guilliames title or money or whatever. I can bet my bottom dollar on the fact that she has never even heard of him.
Have you ever met her? Have you ever met him?
U seems to know a lot about her-good for u
ppl will always judge others by the way the look, it's normal. Kitty looks like Barbie type. period

I think we all can be sure that Lalla Meriem not only the author of the best blog about Lux family (which I can confirm The Family reads almost every day!) but also great expert about everything connected to Luxembourg

that's what expected from him and he knows it
others sublings might have any kind of wife (plz not another tess) but G will choose someone who is "serious, educated and catholic type"

In my country to be educated means complete degree and have experience (internships, job)
well to my humble opinion medicine or bank business are a lot harder then Law (and I studied Law at university, I know what I'm talking about)
well educated aka smart for me also means not to be drunk on fb pictures and have profile picture of u with bottle of Smirnoff! says a lot about her friends who gave it to press huh? and she dated surfer! ser?

she spoke to press
it's more then enough for me to consider girl likes attention

no one said kitty is dumb!

well how can u consider her being well educated if u think she never heard about Lux and The Family?

nope she never met her
yes she did met him
  #120  
Old 11-28-2010, 06:57 PM
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Many people around the world don't grow up in nuclear or traditional families. I didn't. Many royals don't grew up in intact or traditonal families either. When you experienced your parents breakup, usually you try not to make the same mistakes they did or try not to fall into the same patterns that caused them to breakup. You enter marriage perhaps more cautiously than someone whose family is intact. This is what Prince William seems to have been doing.

Of course anyone who is an heir to the throne probably would approach marriage in a more cautious tone that someone who is 20th in line. Who they marry is very important to their country and the last thing you would want is for the marriage to fail or not work out.
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