Princess Victoria's Official Visit to Saudi Arabia; January 2004

[Dennism]

I mean more of a case that they'd probably would not give her a public warning even. Someone may pull her aside sometime and just remind her of customs if there is a problem. In private, I mean. She probably has immunity anyway.

[Fireweaver]

It definitely wouldn't look good to arrest the Crown Princess of another country.

[Dennism]

No, it wouldn't and hopefully, the Saudi police would have some sense of discretion.

[Gita]

Don't forget that Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam and women in Saudi have no little or no legal rights. As a country Saudi Arabia are very strict when it comes too the law, the law is the law there.

[alola]

Hi... I love crown princess Victoria
you can see her in


http://www.spa.gov.sa/html/photoereslt.asp...;2\DDDSSSS
500.JPG

[Dennism]

Saudi Press Agency

[alola]

thank you Dennism this photo is the one that I was traing to put.
Sorry, you made a good job

[Dennism]

Better a ponytail(despite it looking rather youngish. But that's something else) than free. Looking through dozens of photos, I only saw 2 other women. One didn't have a hair covering. And one did. However, the one who did was in the background.

[sarkastik_devil]

i have to say this because i'ma moslem and have been to saudi arabia. to my understanding in some places like Riyadh and Jeddah, women, specifically foreign women are allowed not to wear a head scarf, because in those cities there are many foreigners living there and many of them are not moslems, but in other territories in saudi arabia because there aren't many foreigners living there the law to wear a head scarf are much more strict than in some places like riyadh and jeddah.

[Dennism]

That makes sense, sarkastik_devil, the police or other people may think they are tourists and just don't know any better. But a good tourist wouldn't make a spectacle of themselves anyway. Unfortunately, not all tourists or visitors behave properly. That being said, the cities throughout history have been known for being places where customs and traditions are less followed than in villages or rural areas.

[hrhcp]

i haven't read all the postings in this topic.

To set the record straight with women in Saudi Arabia .....

“Women make up 50 percent of graduates in Saudi Arabia,” she said, “but represent only five percent of the labor force. That is a very low return on an investment. Female inclusion will boost the average household income and release a huge amount of entrepreneurial talent.”

the reason that is so, is because women can only work as school teachers teaching girls or as nurses. As nurses, I imagine they can only work in women's only and/or children's only hospitals/clinics.

Because Saudi Arabia holds 2 of the 3 holiest sites of the Islam religion (Mecca is the holiest of the holy, Medinah is the second holiest, and Jerusalem is the third), Saudi Arabia feels compelled to follow the Koran in the strictest sense of the word for religion abiding and law. It doesn't improve things that the Moslem sect that the royals follow are among the strictest in that religion, even stricter than Sunni and ... (the name escapes me).....

In essence what you have is a segregated society, where obedience of how Arabs comport themselves in public is measured by religious police. to give you an example, if a couple holds hands in public , they get punished. Western women who go out in public must wear a shawl type clothing over their wear, and the shawl must not show a V at the neck (which leads the eye to the cleavage) and it must extend to mid calf height. When I worked in Saudi, there were reports of European ladies being spray-painted with green paint by the religious police below the neck if they showed too much skin there.

Women can not drive. So, there was a lot of resentment that rose in the first Gulf War (~1991) when American lady soldiers drove all their trucks, and hence that is likely the reason why the Americans weren't welcome the second time around (2003) when they launched their attack on Iraq.

......

I would imagine that Victoria knows that she is in a country where she is the exception to the rule. I cannot imagine that she would get arrested for an impropiertary. Her embassy and Foreign Affairs would have 'walked through' her visit through every imagineable and un-imagineable detail. And remember that all press in Saudi is stage-managed. Government controlled. Even the pictures you see here have been thoroughly vetted before they have been released for publication. In closing, it should also be remembered that men are men especially in Saudi, and were Victoria to step out of line, it would be a great coup for that lucky man. I was once at a beach in Jeddah with some Swedes and Danes (men and their wives and kids), and most everyone was surprised how the Saudi men stood in the water - with their robes pulled up - in a semi-circle all around the beach and gawked at the ladies in their bikini's. A different culture ......

[Dennism]

" Saudi Arabia feels compelled to follow the Koran in the strictest sense of the word for religion abiding and law. It doesn't improve things that the Moslem sect that the royals follow are among the strictest in that religion, even stricter than Sunni and ... (the name escapes me)....."

It's the nature of Wahhabbism. And it has only been around since the middle of the 18th century. So in the history of Islam, it is rather new. Sunni and Shi'i.

"In closing, it should also be remembered that men are men especially in Saudi, and were Victoria to step out of line, it would be a great coup for that lucky man. "

However, there are stereotypes about Western women as well...

[Dennism]

Sweden's Crown Princess Victoria speaks to Saudi Royal Advisor Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Abdul Aziz during the third day of the Jeddah Economic Forum in Jeddah, 19 January 2004.

[Dennism]

Sweden's Crown Princess Victoria speaks to Saudi Royal Advisor Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Abdul Aziz during the third day of the Jeddah Economic Forum in Jeddah, 19 January 2004.

[Bubbette]

There are pix of Rania at the same event but she is covered. Is it because they are indoors?

[Dennism]

Indoors. Sure. Muslim and non-Muslim. Rania's neck is still shown though. Interesting design there. The way it goes across her neck like that. Higher expectation for a queen of a Muslim nation to be more observant of customs all of the time. Or most of the time. Stuff like that and what KC said about the places too.

[Lena]

From polfoto.dk

[Dennism]

Sweden's Crown Princess Victoria is received by Saudi businessmen and women during a reception party at a hotel during the third day of the Jeddah Economic Forum, 19 January 2004 in Jeddah. Despite the leading role granted to women at the forum, they were segregated from men in the conference hall behind dividing screens according to the traditions of the Saudi kingdom, and the women participating in the gathering attended their own gala dinner separate from the men.


I figured it would be different because it would be a mixed crowd. O, well.

[Dennism]

More walking.

[Dennism]

Greeting