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  #341  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
Of course Diana and Sarah were walking down the aisle with their fathers! After all, they were English girls, marrying in England: They followed the English tradition. It would be strange to choose otherwise, wouldn't it? I am not sure if this giving away thing is traditional in Denmark (I doubt it, but maybe some Danish posters could clarify?). But as far as I know it is a tradition in France, where Marie comes from, and it certainly is in Mary's homeland Australia. So in these weddings the tradition of the bride's culture was honoured.
But my point is: Why should a Swedish woman, marrying a Swedish guy in Sweden follow a tradition which is completely un-Swedish? That would be as unusual as (hypothetically!) Kate insisting on walking down the aisle with William instead of with her father.
And Victoria is not just a normal Swedish bride who can have the kind of wedding she wants. Unfortunately for her, it is a fairly official state occasion. Actually I was quite surprised that she wishes to stray from the traditions of her beloved homeland, since she usually makes it clear that she makes Sweden her first priority, and that she honours the Swedish customs and traditions.
But another question: how do we know that she wants the king to escort her to the altar? I somehow missed this bit. Is this proven information, or might it just be another press-hype, trying to make some well-selling headlines?

I don't consider it all that she's 'straying" from Swedish traditions because she wants her father, even though he's King, to escort her down the aisle. Whats the problem with that? This is the year 2010, not 1610. This is her once in a lifetime chance to go all out for her big day. I don't think this has anything to do with her love for Sweden. I've seen Victoria work very hard for the country, and it looks like she would give her life for the country, so why not give her this chance? To have something her own way. One can still love their country while changing something up a bit. Someone said Victoria is "Americanized" because she's watching the movies. Having your father escorting the bride down the aisle is not only an American tradition, but many other countries do it as well. The Archbishops should seriously calm down and give her the chance to do it her way. If she wants to be "Americanized" on her wedding day, then I say why not? A lot of American weddings have Asian, Jewish and Indian themes and we do not say they're "straying". It's what they want.

Don't get me wrong. Nothing is wrong with traditions, but when it stops someones free will, then it's a problem.
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  #342  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:27 PM
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^^
The problem is that this is not a common wedding but an official state wedding. And moreover she is not simply a swedish princess but the crown princess.

Imo she should follow the tradition if this is what people expect of her, that's what they are paying for.
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  #343  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Melibea View Post
^^
The problem is that this is not a common wedding but an official state wedding. And moreover she is not simply a swedish princess but the crown princess.

Imo she should follow the tradition if this is what people expect of her, that's what they are paying for.
Of course it not a "common" wedding, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't get what she wants. Now if it will be a problem with Swedish people then she should very well do it the traditional way. I feel sorry for her. To have people dictating how your wedding day, even her life should be, has to be exhausting. It's almost like the people have a hold on these royals because they "pay" for them to reign. But are the Swedish people really that upset about it?

It sounds like most of us want Victoria to have what she wants. Guess we'll see soon enough.
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  #344  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:41 PM
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But she was educating knowing that, she is the crown princess. If she doesn't like she knows what she can do .

I don't know if they are upset or not I don't read the swedish press (well I can't ), so that's why I said if they are expect this, she should do it. People expect their royals to act accordingly to their roles, they have a lot of privileges so they also have a lot of pressure to act as the royals they are.
  #345  
Old 05-22-2010, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Why should a Swedish woman, marrying a Swedish guy in Sweden follow a tradition which is completely un-Swedish?
Traditions have to start somewhere. Every "tradition" was started by someone willing to do something a little bit different than what's been done before. How to you think so many American traditions came into being. From all the Swedish, German, Italian, Irish, Scottish, French etc. families bringing their traditions and throwing them into the melting pot. Victoria is the first female heir to the throne to be married in Sweden. Why not allow her to start a few traditions of her own?
  #346  
Old 05-22-2010, 08:05 PM
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At the end of the day, if a crown princess of all people cannot be allowed to decide who walks her up the aisle with on her own wedding day, then I'm afraid there's no hope for any bride! I cannot imagine many Swedish people will take offence to Victoria's wishes, in the same way that few British people would take offence if, say, Prince William walked Kate up the aisle instead of her father - it would be different from what people are used to but most brides would still want their fathers to walk them up the aisle here. As for tradition, I think this is instilled in the actual marriage vows that couples make, rather than the technical aspects of the wedding.
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  #347  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:08 PM
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This is strange. I'm an American and walking a daughter down the isle is not viewed the same by everybody. Some find it too old fashioned and think it's all about giving away a woman like property. Others, like myself, see it as simply a father and daughter sharing a nice sweet moment. To symbolize a certain part of your life ending. Some even have their mother and father walk them down the isle. The feminist response to this is baffling to me. If you're a feminist shouldn't you believe that woman has a right to maker her decisions? To do what she pleases without hurting anyone?

I fully understand that as a royal Victoria is a symbol and most of her life is not her own. She has to get approval to do things I would consider just normal everyday things. But a wedding should be a moment where the personal preferences of the two main people involved are allowed to shine through.
  #348  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
At the end of the day, if a crown princess of all people cannot be allowed to decide who walks her up the aisle with on her own wedding day, then I'm afraid there's no hope for any bride! I cannot imagine many Swedish people will take offence to Victoria's wishes, in the same way that few British people would take offence if, say, Prince William walked Kate up the aisle instead of her father - it would be different from what people are used to but most brides would still want their fathers to walk them up the aisle here. As for tradition, I think this is instilled in the actual marriage vows that couples make, rather than the technical aspects of the wedding.

Absolutely. Victoria could roller skate down the aisle to "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" by Leo Sayer and it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference, as long as the vows her and Daniel make to one another are heartfelt and loving.

Someone else put it well also; these "traditions" all start somewhere and most of them are either made up at the time and then become what they are now or are slight changes to already known behaviors. Take the white wedding dress, for example. Before Queen Victoria married Prince Albert in 1840, it was not the custom for brides to wear white. They usually wore their best dress, something they would wear to church on Sunday. However after Victoria wore a white dress for her wedding -- suddenly that became the thing to do. Every bride copied her by wearing a white wedding dress. She even brought the German tradition of a Christmas tree to England, which then got exported around the world. Now it's the exception to the rule for a bride to not wear a shade of white. Other cultures have their own rules, of course -- I know for Indian weddings, the bride usually wears red.

Walking the bride down the aisle NOWADAYS, as in TODAY IN THIS CENTURY doesn't mean what it used to. Some brides are escorted by both parents, some by a brother or a close friend....whomever they want. Continuing to bang on this drum that it means the bride is property the father is handing off to the husband, that it's a symbol of ownership.....it's bunk, pure and simple.
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  #349  
Old 05-23-2010, 03:35 AM
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A wedding interview with some nice photos:
Daniel: Victoria är en varm person - gp.se
Photos:
GP
GP
GP
Google Translator
  #350  
Old 05-23-2010, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
Of course Diana and Sarah were walking down the aisle with their fathers! After all, they were English girls, marrying in England: They followed the English tradition. It would be strange to choose otherwise, wouldn't it? I am not sure if this giving away thing is traditional in Denmark (I doubt it, but maybe some Danish posters could clarify?). But as far as I know it is a tradition in France, where Marie comes from, and it certainly is in Mary's homeland Australia. So in these weddings the tradition of the bride's culture was honoured.
But my point is: Why should a Swedish woman, marrying a Swedish guy in Sweden follow a tradition which is completely un-Swedish? That would be as unusual as (hypothetically!) Kate insisting on walking down the aisle with William instead of with her father.
And Victoria is not just a normal Swedish bride who can have the kind of wedding she wants. Unfortunately for her, it is a fairly official state occasion. Actually I was quite surprised that she wishes to stray from the traditions of her beloved homeland, since she usually makes it clear that she makes Sweden her first priority, and that she honours the Swedish customs and traditions.
But another question: how do we know that she wants the king to escort her to the altar? I somehow missed this bit. Is this proven information, or might it just be another press-hype, trying to make some well-selling headlines?
Part of it is that it was in the BErnaddotte Family otherwise most of the times. When the futurre King Gustaf VI. Adolf married OPricness margfaret of Connaught she was escorted the aisle by her father as the Wedding took place in Windsor. But also at the Wedding of Princess Ingrird and the future King Frederik IX. where the Wedding took place at Stockholm and the Weddings of Princess Margaretha and Princess Désirée who all married in Sweden the brides where escorted by their father/grandfather. Only at the Wedding of King Carl XVI. Gustaf and Silvia and Pricness Christina the swedish ttradtion was followed. So one can say it's more a tradtion in the Bernadotte-Family to ghave the bride walking down the aisle with her father.
  #351  
Old 05-23-2010, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Absolutely. Victoria could roller skate down the aisle to "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" by Leo Sayer and it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference, as long as the vows her and Daniel make to one another are heartfelt and loving.

Someone else put it well also; these "traditions" all start somewhere and most of them are either made up at the time and then become what they are now or are slight changes to already known behaviors. Take the white wedding dress, for example. Before Queen Victoria married Prince Albert in 1840, it was not the custom for brides to wear white. They usually wore their best dress, something they would wear to church on Sunday. However after Victoria wore a white dress for her wedding -- suddenly that became the thing to do. Every bride copied her by wearing a white wedding dress. She even brought the German tradition of a Christmas tree to England, which then got exported around the world. Now it's the exception to the rule for a bride to not wear a shade of white. Other cultures have their own rules, of course -- I know for Indian weddings, the bride usually wears red.

Walking the bride down the aisle NOWADAYS, as in TODAY IN THIS CENTURY doesn't mean what it used to. Some brides are escorted by both parents, some by a brother or a close friend....whomever they want. Continuing to bang on this drum that it means the bride is property the father is handing off to the husband, that it's a symbol of ownership.....it's bunk, pure and simple.

The point is totally being missed her. CP Victoria is not any ordinary Swedish woman who can do whatever she likes on her wedding day. She is the heiress to the throne. She is one of only 4 people in Sweden where the law states they must belong to the Swedish Lutheran Church.

Now the head of the Swedish Lutheran church having agreed to marry Victoria in accordance to the Swedish Lutheran church's traditions is annoyed as Victoria is choosing to ignore one of those traditions. She's not in a position to pick and choose!

An analogy would be a Jewish woman who agrees to marry in the synagogue with the Cheif Rabbi as celebrant. That then same woman decides that she doesn't want to follow one of the Jewish wedding traditions in that ceremony.

With the 'who will Victoria walk down the aisle with" is not a debate on feminism, cultural clashes (Anglo-Saxon background people can't understand why it's such as issue for Victoria's father to walk her down the aisle. Europeans who never had this tradition see it as insulting in this day and age) but the debate is about church traditions and if you choose to marry in that church about being faithful to their traditions.
  #352  
Old 05-23-2010, 05:33 AM
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She can do who she likes, it would be nice for her to walk down the aisle with her father. If she doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to follow in the her mothers footsteps if she doesn't want to.
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  #353  
Old 05-23-2010, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
A wedding interview with some nice photos:
Daniel: Victoria är en varm person - gp.se
Thanks alot LadyFinn! I love the pictures. Victoria and Daniel look really happy. They make a very good-looking couple here, imo.
I like that Daniel looks more relaxed from interview to interview.
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  #354  
Old 05-23-2010, 05:58 AM
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Another lovely interview.
Love the last question to Daniel on how ppl will see him after the wedding ceremony
"stiff and bitter"
  #355  
Old 05-23-2010, 07:16 AM
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An Ockelbo artist and painter Tony Warren received an audience with Crown Princess Victoria and Daniel Westling on the 3rd June to give them a wedding gift.
Överlämnar tavlan själv på audiens -GD
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  #356  
Old 05-23-2010, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
With the 'who will Victoria walk down the aisle with" is not a debate on feminism, cultural clashes (Anglo-Saxon background people can't understand why it's such as issue for Victoria's father to walk her down the aisle. Europeans who never had this tradition see it as insulting in this day and age) but the debate is about church traditions and if you choose to marry in that church about being faithful to their traditions.
Even if it is church tradition, religious officials do not need to make an issue over this. CP Victoria's decision to have her father walk her down the hall should not be made into a religious issue. If she were violating Scripture or breaking church doctrine, that's a completely different matter. The priests and archbishop should be focusing their attention on more important church matters.
  #357  
Old 05-23-2010, 04:07 PM
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An analogy would be a Jewish woman who agrees to marry in the synagogue with the Cheif Rabbi as celebrant. That then same woman decides that she doesn't want to follow one of the Jewish wedding traditions in that ceremony.

Not necessarily. I've been to many religious weddings (Catholic, Jewish, Protestant) where certain aspects of what a "traditional" wedding in that faith would entail, were not performed. Either because the person they were marrying was not in that faith and they wanted the service to be more encompassing of their spouse and in-laws or because they just didn't want to.

My parents are Catholic, but were married at City Hall. No religious wedding, no communion, no nothing. One of my closest friends is Jewish and they chose not to have a chuppah at their wedding. The rabbi who married them didn't seem to care. They did break the glass at the end though, although it took Michael a couple tries to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laduchesse View Post
Even if it is church tradition, religious officials do not need to make an issue over this. CP Victoria's decision to have her father walk her down the hall should not be made into a religious issue. If she were violating Scripture or breaking church doctrine, that's a completely different matter. The priests and archbishop should be focusing their attention on more important church matters.

I agree. To the best of my knowledge, the Swedish Lutheran Church is not like the Church of England, where the head of state is also the head of the church. Meaning, if Victoria chooses to walk down the aisle on her father's arm rather than Daniel's, she's not violating religious tenets by doing so and neither is her father. If it was written down somewhere that Carl Gustaf is head of the Swedish Lutheran Church and as such, part of Church doctrine is that the bride walks down the aisle with the groom, then yes.....they would be violating that. However I haven't seen anyone here, Swedish or otherwise, say that. Therefore, the fact the archbishop and priests are getting involved is rather ridiculous, to say the least.

As someone else pointed out, it's not common in the Bernadotte family for the bride to walk down the aisle with the groom. More times than not, the bride is escorted down the aisle by their father or another family member if the father is not alive. I know two of the King's sisters were walked down the aisle by their uncle as their father died when they were young. So if Victoria chooses to have her father walk her down the aisle, that's her family's tradition she is going with -- not necessarily what other brides in Sweden would do.
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  #358  
Old 05-23-2010, 06:37 PM
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Victoria should simply play a bit of hardball with the Swedish Lutheran Church by using an old trick from the book when dealing with obstructive clerics: threaten to take your wedding to another Church. The Norwegian Sailor's Church in Stockholm would be most willing to help her out, wouldn't they?

Such a move would cause quite some embarrasment for the Swedish Lutheran Church and the mere threat would be sufficient to make them back down.
  #359  
Old 05-23-2010, 07:19 PM
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I believe this quote from Victoria sums it all up:

"- We have tried to seek an alliance between history and contemporary wedding day while still should feel personal, "says the Crown Princess

I couldn't have said it better myself.
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  #360  
Old 05-24-2010, 12:47 AM
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Aww I can't wait to see them in church!!
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