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  #901  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:40 PM
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I think Estelle is awkward with a title ahead of it - Prinsessan Estelle? Drottning Estelle? I just don't think it works. I think "Princess Estelle" - with the double "ess" sound - is especially bad, but I suppose D&V can't be blamed for not concerning themselves with how it sounds in other languages. However, I do think royal parents need to look at a name from every angle.

BUT.......

I myself like a lot of names other people hate. I think the name Josephine is beautiful, and many people on this thread have referred to it as awful. I also love the name Edith, but I know most people would consider it hideous; and so I would never saddle a daughter with it.

Also, this isn't the first unprecedented royal name. I wouldn't have thought Silvia, Sonja, or Madeleine could be royal names; but they all work fine with royal titles, IMO, even if "Silvia" for one seems very mid-20th century. It's not exactly the sort of classic name one would expect to find on a queen. I also think "Queen Maud" and "Queen Ena" must have seemed strange to people in their day, and I've always thought "Irene" a strange choice for a royal name in the days when royals still married across national lines and the world might have ended up with a "Queen Irene"!
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  #902  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:40 PM
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I admit i have no hopes for William and Catherine despite the fact that Catherine's parents named their children after English/British monarchs whose names were not often used. Not only do William and Catherine appear traditional and kind of boring, but the most important people in William's life, his father, grandmother and grandfather, have those too often used/boring/old sounding names. The only one's who have "new" names are Andrew and his daughters. As Molly2101 said, it is not so hard to throw in an Alexander or Charlotte.
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  #903  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:11 PM
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But, ultimately, the children of monarchs, particularly those who will inherit their respective thrones, in a way belong not only to their parents but to a certain extent to the nations which they will one day serve. Future monarchs have most of their lives laid out for them before they even take their first breath. They don't enjoy the same freedoms the rest of us do, but they do enjoy a luxurious lifestyle the rest of us can never imagine.

So in naming the future leader and figurehead for their nation, of course the parents have to like the name. But, they also have to bear in mind the importance of their future role and that this person will have to literally personify the regality and gravity of the position they will hold, not only as sovereign but as the head of a long and storied dynasty. Personifying also the continuity to past generations is also of paramount importance, and this is why most monarchies use a batch of familiar names.

I personally feel names other than Estelle would have done all that better, but maybe in 50 years when she's likely to be coming to her throne it'll seem different.

There's just more to naming a future monarch than 'hey, I like that name, let's go with it'.

As an aside, the little Princess Elizabeth of York was considered very unlikely when she was named to ever become Queen. She was named, not after the legendary Queen Elizabeth I, but after her mother who just so happened to have that name.
  #904  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:49 PM
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There is nothing wrong with the name Estelle personifying regality to her subjects in the decades to come. It is a fine, traditional, respectable, feminine name. And the names Beatrix, Silvia, and Victoria (1830s) though unique names to proceed the title Queen, did not have any problems in identifying, leading, and making their subjects proud.
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  #905  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:02 PM
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Since we get to pass judgement on a two-day old baby's name, let's all send our names in to Victoria and Daniel, and they can tell us what our names sound like to them. Maybe one of us will remind them of a night club singer, or a French prostitute, or whatever other ugly things were said about Estelle just the day following her birth.

Come on, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Pony up your names, and let's see if you're fit to judge what two strangers decided to name their child. I'll start - my name is Elizabeth Alexandra.
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  #906  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
The only one's who have "new" names are Andrew and his daughters. As Molly2101 said, it is not so hard to throw in an Alexander or Charlotte.
Actually, Andrew was named for his paternal grandfather; and there have been at least two other British princesses named Beatrice.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:08 PM
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When Beatrice was born in 1988, it was a rather "new" name, at least for the BRF, as it hadn't been used in nearly a century. Mary, Elizabeth, Alexandra, Victoria, Louise, and Anne had all been used far more.
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  #908  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
But, ultimately, the children of monarchs, particularly those who will inherit their respective thrones, in a way belong not only to their parents but to a certain extent to the nations which they will one day serve. Future monarchs have most of their lives laid out for them before they even take their first breath. They don't enjoy the same freedoms the rest of us do, but they do enjoy a luxurious lifestyle the rest of us can never imagine.

So in naming the future leader and figurehead for their nation, of course the parents have to like the name. But, they also have to bear in mind the importance of their future role and that this person will have to literally personify the regality and gravity of the position they will hold, not only as sovereign but as the head of a long and storied dynasty. Personifying also the continuity to past generations is also of paramount importance, and this is why most monarchies use a batch of familiar names.

I personally feel names other than Estelle would have done all that better, but maybe in 50 years when she's likely to be coming to her throne it'll seem different.

There's just more to naming a future monarch than 'hey, I like that name, let's go with it'.

As an aside, the little Princess Elizabeth of York was considered very unlikely when she was named to ever become Queen. She was named, not after the legendary Queen Elizabeth I, but after her mother who just so happened to have that name.
I, like many in this thread, cannot agree with this. People have been using the "but what about tradition?". The fact with tradition is that it must move with the times. Traditions are dynamic; not static.

More importantly, the fact that Victoria AND Daniel chose a name they liked shows us that they are of independent thought and do not require her father or anyone else telling them what to do. It also shows they wish to buckle away from stale traditions that really have no place today.

I congratulate them on choosing a name which means something to them rather than relying on stifling traditions.
  #909  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Since we get to pass judgement on a two-day old baby's name, let's all send our names in to Victoria and Daniel, and they can tell us what our names sound like to them. Maybe one of us will remind them of a night club singer, or a French prostitute, or whatever other ugly things were said about Estelle just the day following her birth.

Come on, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Pony up your names, and let's see if you're fit to judge what two strangers decided to name their child. I'll start - my name is Elizabeth Alexandra.
I don't think people feel that saying things about the name the baby's parents chose for her is saying something about the baby herself. And I don't think anyone needs to worry about Daniel or Victoria or any other member of the SRF perusing this message board.

None of our names are going to be carried through the world as part of an official title. My name's Brian, which I hated growing up but have come to like well enough. In Britain, it's a name that one finds on elderly working-class men, but in Ireland and the US you still find it on young men. It surprisingly has some royal precedence (the most famous Irish high king was Brian Boru), but if Daniel and Victoria have a son and name him Prince Brian of Sweden, I will be the first to log on here and say it was a very strange choice. Granted, their next child won't be the future monarch.
  #910  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
I applaud their choice of names although at the moment we don't know the special meaning behind Estelle or Mary. By starting their own traditions with Silvia and Ewa they have up-dated the royal names. Desideria or Desiree started when a french woman suddenly became part of a royal couple. Not very swedish or traditional. All names and dynasties start somewhere. CP Victoria and P Daniel are recognizing the current family lines and that is great.

We don't know if either of these names chosen had a very special meaning to P Lilian. There has been some issues raised with them not choosing to recognize her, but perhaps they are. We just don't know.

After reading your post grevinnan, I was also wondering if maybe Mary have something raleted or meaning about Princess Lilian, and found on wikipeadia that Princess Lilian full name is Lillian May -> Mary without "r" and Lillian's mother name is Gladys Mary .Perhaps from there comes Mary
I think that if they have another girl, one of they name would be Lillian
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  #911  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:54 PM
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Two really depressing days. I have to admit I was disappointed and wrote it, now I feel guilty.
The name is after you heard it more and more not that bad, especially when you hear how they pronounce it in Swedish. Just Mary is not synchron and I´m in general not a fan of the name. But whatever. I feel very sorry for V&D, for what they aren´t called: arrogant, far from reality, tacky, totally common, not suitable for the position. (Not here btw)
Of course a traditional name is always easier and IMO better because of the history, but it was also not tradition that a woman inherits the throne, so it´s not that Victoria declared Sweden to a British colony.
I want to congratulate again the parents and grandparents for a gorgeous girl
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  #912  
Old 02-25-2012, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
But, ultimately, the children of monarchs, particularly those who will inherit their respective thrones, in a way belong not only to their parents but to a certain extent to the nations which they will one day serve. Future monarchs have most of their lives laid out for them before they even take their first breath. They don't enjoy the same freedoms the rest of us do, but they do enjoy a luxurious lifestyle the rest of us can never imagine.

So in naming the future leader and figurehead for their nation, of course the parents have to like the name. But, they also have to bear in mind the importance of their future role and that this person will have to literally personify the regality and gravity of the position they will hold, not only as sovereign but as the head of a long and storied dynasty. Personifying also the continuity to past generations is also of paramount importance, and this is why most monarchies use a batch of familiar names.

I personally feel names other than Estelle would have done all that better, but maybe in 50 years when she's likely to be coming to her throne it'll seem different.

There's just more to naming a future monarch than 'hey, I like that name, let's go with it'.
This is exactly how I feel. It is incredibly sad that it is that way, but Princess Estelle is not only her parents daughter, she is a daughter of Sweden.
In my opinon, Estelle is a pretty name, but not for a future queen.
For me it sort of feels like the CP couple isn't expecting her to become a queen at all, and that makes me feel sad. The monarchy in Sweden is already quite threatened, and I don't belive that it will last long.

On another note I think it's quite silly to compare royal consorts names with royal baby names. A parent can't know that you are going to marry a royal one day!

I do believe that William and Catherine will name a girl "Philippa", probably only as a middle name, in honor of her sister, Williams grandfather and there have been a few princesses named that too.
  #913  
Old 02-25-2012, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Natalia Elisabeth View Post
On another note I think it's quite silly to compare royal consorts names with royal baby names. A parent can't know that you are going to marry a royal one day!


I only did this to illustrate the point that names that one might not think of as particularly "regal" can still work perfectly well with a royal title.
  #914  
Old 02-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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Okay,so....There I was on Wednesday night at around 11:30pm my time here in Canada and about to leave to catch the VIA Train down here to Toronto for a Dr's appt coming up on Monday afternoon. I also haven't had a get away/vacation of sorts in an year now, so the fact the last train from Sudbury to Toronto during the week leaves a little after 1am Thursday morning, isn't that big a deal this time. Anyway...

I decide just before leaving to check out the front page of the site on my Sister's computer. Just to see if there was any new news about Prince Friso and instead I see that Victoria's in the Hospital and in LABOUR!?!

The *only* thing that kept me from shrieking, "You've GOT to be KIDDING!?!" was that my sister and brother in law had both been in bed for a couple of hours and would have *killed* me. :oD So I get down here Thursday morning, checked into the hotel and hook up to their wireless network to check my iPod and the site never did come up for me. So I checked the two respective Cdn network news apps I have on it and the second one I tried had the happy news.

I predicted a Princess IIRC, but a Prince would have been nice too, as I was also on Team Christian needs another little future Crown Prince to back him up. :oD The truly important thing of all however is that both Victoria and little Princess Estelle are healthy and well.

I LOVE the name. It's a family name, yet not traditional or one that sounds overly stuffy, but also sounds modern. I have a form of Estelle as my middle name, which is my Mom's first name, so when I told her the little Princess' name, she loved it too.

Which obviously leads on to the tribute to the Grandmas. What a lovely, lovely thing for Victoria and Daniel decide to do and so very sweet. As for the Mary, I have feeling, as many others have, it very well could be for Crown Princess Mary. Can't say much more on that, other than to say it's a hunch. :o)

BTW...Did anyone think after hearing it was a Princess, and Mom and Baby were both safe and well, how incredibly fitting Sweden's newest little Princess was born in February because....

It's not every little Princess who has in the far off future, a Parure (or Demi Parure. I can never remember which is which...) that uses her Birthstone for the main gem.

I'm not kidding either. Literally a couple of minutes after learning the news, all I could think of is just how....Perfect for lack of a better word, for this particular little Princess to be born in February and to a Royal Family that has the only major set using Amethysts that I know of. As I said...It's just perfect and fitting and....:o)

Congratulations to Victoria, Daniel and both Families on the lovely addition to their Families.

Welcome to the World little Estelle!!!
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  #915  
Old 02-25-2012, 11:28 PM
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Did not think of the Amethysts!!!!!!!!! You made my night!
  #916  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:24 AM
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I think Estelle is such a beautiful name for a Princess.

Welcome to the Royal World Estelle!
  #917  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Since we get to pass judgement on a two-day old baby's name, let's all send our names in to Victoria and Daniel, and they can tell us what our names sound like to them. Maybe one of us will remind them of a night club singer, or a French prostitute, or whatever other ugly things were said about Estelle just the day following her birth.

Come on, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Pony up your names, and let's see if you're fit to judge what two strangers decided to name their child. I'll start - my name is Elizabeth Alexandra.
Oh, that is a fantastic idea. All the people passing judgement on a 2 day old name should post their own so we can judge if they sound skanky, stupid, unregal, low class, etc.!
As for Elizabeth Alexandra, I think that is a beautiful name mostly because of the combination of the names. To me Alexandra still sounds so regal to me.
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  #918  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:30 AM
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By the way, is the name "Ewa" could be of Polish origin? Ewa is the Polish name for the Biblical name "Eve".
  #919  
Old 02-26-2012, 01:10 AM
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Mary

I'm having a hearty chuckle every time someone in this thread ties themselves in knots trying to find any explanation but the most obvious on why the newborn princess has "Mary" as part of her name.

I may be wrong and will be the first to admit it if I am. But as of right now, I think the easiest and most simple explanation is that Mary is after Mary of Denmark.

Do some posters dislike her so much that they're coming up with obscure reasonings and suggestions of what the Mary is from?

  #920  
Old 02-26-2012, 01:36 AM
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Welcome to the world, Princess Estelle!
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