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  #141  
Old 05-17-2006, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larzen
How about Duke of Stureplan? :p

They cant pretty well take a dukedom away from Madeleine and give it to Daniel, maybe Madeleines husband will be Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland, like they did in Spain. I just hope that they threat the spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine the same way when it comes to titles
Madeleine´s husband won´t be a duke! He will just remain "Mr Bergstroem" as pricess Christina´s husband is "Mr Magnusson".
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  #142  
Old 05-17-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
I think Daniel will get a title similar to that of Prince Philip in the UK. He'll be the Duke of Västergötland while Victoria is still Crown Princess and then once she's Queen, he'll be Prince Daniel, Duke of Västergötland. The reason you'll never see a Crown Princess's husband given the rank of King once she ascends the throne is because (and it's sad and archaic) a King outranks a Queen and to give someone a rank by marriage that goes over the rank by birth of his wife wouldn't work. Hence why it's not King Philip and King Henrik.

I also believe that Daniel isn't the type of man to press the issue. If he's given a title based on one of his wife's peerages, I don't think he'll be complaining.
Historically this was not a problem because royal women at Victoria's level did not marry well below their station. Instead, an equal match would be arranged and both would rule as King and Queen theoretically sharing power (for example William III & Mary II or Phillip II of Spain and Mary I of England)
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  #143  
Old 05-17-2006, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreDoc
Historically this was not a problem because royal women at Victoria's level did not marry well below their station. Instead, an equal match would be arranged and both would rule as King and Queen theoretically sharing power (for example William III & Mary II or Phillip II of Spain and Mary I of England)

This is true, but look at Queen Victoria in England. She fought for years to give Prince Albert the title of "King" because she felt that they were equal partners and should rule equally. But if I remember correctly, she was told that a King outranks a Queen and because she was a Queen by birthright, she outranks whomever she marries. So Albert could never be "King" as that would place him above her.

In this instance, because Daniel isn't royalty they don't have that issue, but I still feel he'll end up with a title similar to that of Prince Philip, provided they marry.
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  #144  
Old 05-18-2006, 07:37 PM
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I think it's sad, that prince Albert, prince Philip and prince Henrik couldn't be kings, when their wives were/became queens, just because of some old idea of a king outranking a queen. A queen and a king are equals, but a queen and a prince isn't, which makes it all seem stupid to me, since a married couple should be equals.
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  #145  
Old 05-18-2006, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
I think it's sad, that prince Albert, prince Philip and prince Henrik couldn't be kings, when their wives were/became queens, just because of some old idea of a king outranking a queen. A queen and a king are equals, but a queen and a prince isn't, which makes it all seem stupid to me, since a married couple should be equals.
Oh don't be sad, it's just a fact of life that in some societies some royals are born better than others, the only thing you can do is accept it.
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  #146  
Old 05-19-2006, 05:21 PM
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Yeah, but if you can change the act of succession, you should also be able to change that, so that a queen's husband always becomes a king, like a king's wife always becomes a queen.
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  #147  
Old 05-20-2006, 11:34 AM
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my opinion on why on some countries king and queen are not of the same rank is this: if the heir to the throne is a male he will automatically becomes king bec he's the heir to the throne like that of felipe, cp of norway and other countries whose heirs are males. their wives will be queens as opposed to a country like sweden wherein the heir is a female. she will become queen but i don't think the future queen's husband would be titled as king because first and foremost the title of king is higher than the title of queen. in the case of daniel and cp victoria. it would be a shame if daniel would be called king while victoria is the heir. given that daniel would be victoria's husband and would be king of sweden it would look like that daniel is the head of state when in fact it is victoria. if you look at it i think it's not right to give the title of king to husbands of future queens regardless of whether the husband is royal or not. after all in the case of sweden, the future head of state is a female and should be called queen. imagine if daniel would be victoria's husband and he would be called king? looks like daniel is the head of state because he's called the king. he will overshadow his wife in terms of title whose the true head of state. look at the husbands of queen elizabeth, queen margreth and queen beatriz. if their husbands will be called king it would overshadow their true rank. of course we know that they are the head of state but the title itself can have its negative impact on the pr of the sovereigns. it would look like their husbands are the rulers of their country not the queen themselves. no offense on royal husbands/males. this is purely an opinion.. i hope you get my point..
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  #148  
Old 05-20-2006, 12:54 PM
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Title doesn´t matter

Well, only one can be the head of state so the title realy doesn´t matter. And the head of state will be the rouling monarch. The order of succesion tells us who will be the head of state.
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  #149  
Old 05-20-2006, 02:24 PM
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But even if a king outranked a queen in the past, why does it have to be so now, when Victoria and Ingrid Alexandra are heirs even though they have younger brothers? It just doesn't feel right.
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  #150  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:18 PM
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In the Renaissance, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots was made King Consort but it didn't go over very well. I guess there's the suspicion that if the husband has the title he'd be unwilling to take a back seat.
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  #151  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:24 PM
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A King Consort back in the day could have been problematic because the royals had actual power. Now I see no problem in having a King Consort because the monarchy has no real political power. Besides, being made Prince Consort and not King Consort doesn't ensure that a man will take a back seat silently. Prince Henrik, anyone?
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  #152  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:43 AM
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i think daniel would be prince consort like prince henrik of denmark although he has to shape clothes wise , i mean a jacket that you wear with a suit with jeans please and those dorky looking glasses
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  #153  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:14 PM
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Wow! You sure seem to know more about our royals than what I do! And I still think making any queen's husband king is the way to go.
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  #154  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:15 PM
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even if we know Queen Victoria is the head of state and not her King Daniel, the King Daniel title would confuse people in other countries, especially in those places where equality is nothing but a dot in outer space.

somehow i think ''drottninggemål Daniel'' (queen spouse Daniel) sounds more natural than prinsgemål or kungsgemål. after all, a gemål is someone who's married to someone else, and as he will be married to the queen in my mind he would be a drottninggemål.

i know they use the title ''prinsgemål'' about Prince Henrik of Denmark, I think it sounds like he's married to some other Prince, which makes it confusing.

Madeleine was appointed both Hälsingland and Gästrikland because they are both pretty small and also next to each other, like one administering region.
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  #155  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:22 PM
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Is religion or the fact that they are commoners a factor anymore? Why did Carl Gustav have to wait until he was king to marry?

Thanks
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  #156  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:49 PM
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i dont think that he had to wait, i think that it just would have been easier to wait and see if the people accepted silvia, which of course they did, and back then it was not acceptable to give up the throne for a commoner, so i think that he just waited because it was easier for everyone...
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  #157  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:53 AM
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Until 1976 a swedish prince lost his title when he married a commoner, for example count Lennart Bernadotte. That´s why prince Bertil couldn´t marry Lilian. BUT a king could marry everyone he wants. So Carl Gustav could marry Silvia when he become king. Just after he had married Silvia king Carl Gustav changed this law and so prince Bertil could marry Lilian in december 1976.
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  #158  
Old 07-28-2006, 03:02 AM
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Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but would it be any different if Victoria married someone who wasn't Swedish?
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  #159  
Old 07-28-2006, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcboon
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but would it be any different if Victoria married someone who wasn't Swedish?
If it was a commoner from another country, then most likely no, it would not change things. And even if it were a noble or royal, the highest title her husband can ever have, when she's Queen, would be Prince Consort anyway.
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  #160  
Old 07-28-2006, 07:59 PM
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Why Prince Bertil didn´t get married

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antje
Until 1976 a swedish prince lost his title when he married a commoner, for example count Lennart Bernadotte. That´s why prince Bertil couldn´t marry Lilian. BUT a king could marry everyone he wants. So Carl Gustav could marry Silvia when he become king. Just after he had married Silvia king Carl Gustav changed this law and so prince Bertil could marry Lilian in december 1976.
Prince Bertil couldn´t marry Lilian because i could have been troble with order of succession to the throne. Carl-Gustaf was very young when his father, the crown prince, died in an flying accident. And Sweden suddenly had a yuong child as a crown prince and an old monarch. TRH of Sweden had problems because ther was not possible for a female ascend to the throne and there were no male heirs. So Prince Bertil made a great offer to his country when he helped the young CP an the older king on the throne.
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