Daniel's Future: Discussion (his role, title, orders, pressure etc.)

[User0501]

Title says it all.

would he be called Prince Daniel? because Princess Anne's 1st husband didn't have a title nor was he given one.

I would like to know out of curiosity.

thanks

In Britain,husband to a female monarch is not known as king and husband to a royal princess do not hold any title.So in the case of Victoria and Daniel maybe different since they are from Sweden not Britain.

 

[Iain]

As a crown princess and therefore a future queen her husband would become a prince on their marriage just as Henrik did in Denmark and Claus in the Netherlands.

 

[mixer2002de]

Personally I think its completley unimportant if Viktorias husband will get a title or not. It should be completley unimportant for him to have a title if he really loves Viktoria so thats a rather useless und stupid discussion.

 

[Incas]

I think having a title may be very important to the circle of people they socialize. There are plenty of decendents from former royal houses that still holds onto their "royal" titles. They would have looked down on a consort without a proper title.

 

[Henri M.]

This is exactly why in 2002 in the Netherlands the titulature in the royal house was made 'gender free' and equal in all cases. Also is fixed by law that the spouse of the Sovereign and of the Heir-Apparent, no matter the gender, is given the own title of Prince(ss) of the Netherlands. Copy and paste this to the Swedish situation:

H.M. Sveriges Konung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prinsessa

H.M. Sveriges Dronnung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prins

H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprins
H.K.H. Prinsessa {...name...} av Sverige

H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprinsessa
H.K.H. Prins {...name...} av Sverige

If the Swedes would take over the new Dutch system, then Victoria and Daniël would become:


H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprinssessa, Hertiginna av Västergötland
H.K.H. Prins Daniël av Sverige

and later

H.M. Sveriges Dronnung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prins

 

[GrandDuchess]

Since there is no precedent to look at in modern times in Sweden, we have to hold our horses before the actual announcement of the King's desicion on the titles for the future husband of Crown Princess Victoria. The same goes for Carl Philip's and Madeleine's future spouses...

My personal hope though, as a Swede, is that Victoria's future husband should be a HRH Prince of Sweden. Both for official representational purposes and the position of the monarchy (creating some kind of new way would bring confusion), it would be for the best.

 

[Henri M.]

Since there is no precedent to look at in modern times in Sweden, we have to hold our horses before the actual announcement of the King's desicion on the titles for the future husband of Crown Princess Victoria. The same goes for Carl Philip's and Madeleine's future spouses...

My personal hope though, as a Swede, is that Victoria's future husband should be a HRH Prince of Sweden. Both for official representational purposes and the position of the monarchy (creating some kind of new way would bring confusion), it would be for the best.

So you follow the same style for the male spouse of an Heiress-Apparent like in the UK, in the Netherlands and in Denmark:

H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprinssessa, Hertiginna av Västergötland
H.K.H. Prins Daniël av Sverige

and later

H.M. Sveriges Dronnung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prins

 

[Lena]

This is exactly why in 2002 in the Netherlands the titulature in the royal house was made 'gender free' and equal in all cases. Also is fixed by law that the spouse of the Sovereign and of the Heir-Apparent, no matter the gender, is given the own title of Prince(ss) of the Netherlands. Copy and paste this to the Swedish situation:

H.M. Sveriges Konung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prinsessa

H.M. Sveriges Dronnung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prins

H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprins
H.K.H. Prinsessa {...name...} av Sverige

H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprinsessa
H.K.H. Prins {...name...} av Sverige

If the Swedes would take over the new Dutch system, then Victoria and Daniël would become:


H.K.H. Sveriges Kronprinssessa, Hertiginna av Västergötland
H.K.H. Prins Daniël av Sverige

and later

H.M. Sveriges Dronnung
H.K.H. Sveriges Prins

Ehum...does this mean Maxima won´t be known as "Queen Maxima", when Queen Beatrix would retire If, I´d be very surprised...but actually positively surprised. For me it does feel strange, that these commoners, who marry crown princes these days can be known as "queen". "Princess" is IMO more a "flashy" title, that you can also buy and that is even sometimes used as first name for baby girls.

 

[Henri M.]

To avoid a long discussion about a non-Swedish topic: that is indeed the intention of the 2002 Act which regulates the titulature. The titles are made gender-free and as the Dutch Government sees it as 'an undesirable situation' that the future spouse of Princess Catharina-Amalia will be known as 'The Prince of Orange' or 'The King', it is fixed that in all cases, male and female spouses of the Heir(ess) and the Sovereign become a Prince(ss) in their own right.

But there is quite opposition against that Act. Main reason: it is an absolute break with the long standing practice and tradition that the spouse of a King is not known as a Queen.

We have to wait how things will develop in the future. Also Britain will probably change: HM The King and HRH The Princess-Consort.
I think that many monarchies, which have to deal with a gender-free succession and a reigning Queen later (Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, probably Spain) will watch the developments in Britain and the Netherlands with interest.

 

[Lox]

That's very interesting Henri M, thanks! I hadn't heard about this before you mentioned it.

It makes sense that:
The title King should be reserved for reigning Kings only, and
The title Queen should be reserved for reigning Queens only.

 

[Nouvelle]

That's very interesting Henri M, thanks! I hadn't heard about this before you mentioned it.

It makes sense that:
The title King should be reserved for reigning Kings only, and
The title Queen should be reserved for reigning Queens only.

Yes, sure. And Daniel will be certainly His Royal Highness Prince Daniel of Sweden, no doubt. He has to be HRH, he will be (I hope so) married to the queen!!! And how would it be:

H.M. Queen Victoria
Prince Daniel
Children:
H.R.H. Crown Prince (Princess...)
H.R.H. Princess (Prince)
..................................................

The royal people would certainly look down on him.
But poor Daniel... He would sacrify all he has, give up all. He's an active, modern man and he will have to be only a man of his wife. But I hope they will get married! They love each other!!! This is the most important thing!!!

 

[Stefanie]

Now we have the problem: That comes from this stupid idea of emancipation. You can also overdo something. It was to be foreseen that not every future Queen marries a Henri de la Bord de Monpezat or a Claus VON Amsberg or so. This will be the first time in younger history that a future Queen is to marry just a common Mr. Westling. And since we don´t feel good with this fact (although we are so emancipated...)we have to absolutely give him a royal title. Why? Why can´t we just say: Queen Victoria of Sweden and her husband Mr. Daniel Westling! Yeah, I know, it sounds in a way poor. But we are all so emancipated and therefore had to change the law and now poor Victoria has to carry the can....(what might cause that she never marries...)

 

[Nouvelle]

Now we have the problem: That comes from this stupid idea of emancipation. You can also overdo something. It was to be foreseen that not every future Queen marries a Henri de la Bord de Monpezat or a Claus VON Amsberg or so. This will be the first time in younger history that a future Queen is to marry just a common Mr. Westling. And since we don´t feel good with this fact (although we are so emancipated...)we have to absolutely give him a royal title. Why? Why can´t we just say: Queen Victoria of Sweden and her husband Mr. Daniel Westling! Yeah, I know, it sounds in a way poor. But we are all so emancipated and therefore had to change the law and now poor Victoria has to carry the can....(what might cause that she never marries...)

Yes, you are right. He wil be HRH. But he will always be only a husband of the queen. If they get married of course... I hope we will be able to celebrate royal wedding in Sweden in 2008!

 

[magnik]

So maybe the King should give him some title maybe baron or count... like it was in Belgium with Mathilde and Claire and in the Netherlands with Maxima.
Than Victoria wouldn't marry a commoner someday

 

[Gita]

I don't think Daniel would mind being in Crown Princess Victoria's shadow, since he is not too keen on the limelight.

 

[Lena]

I don't think Daniel would mind being in Crown Princess Victoria's shadow, since he is not too keen on the limelight.

Well, but if you are automatically in the limelight and then in the shadow...not so great. Mind you...the negative things, the press would surely note. Then it could help to have some positive "spotlight time" as well.

 

[Nouvelle]

So maybe the King should give him some title maybe baron or count... like it was in Belgium with Mathilde and Claire and in the Netherlands with Maxima.
Than Victoria wouldn't marry a commoner someday

He's a commoner, the king can't help it. I think he and the queen don't want Victoria to marry Daniel

 

[Jang]

maybe duke? something like that

 

[Hans-Rickard]

HRH Prince Daniel Mr Westling when the king is alive and HRH The Prince Consort after Victorias accesion is my tip.

 

[Nouvelle]

HRH Prince Daniel Mr Westling when the king is alive and HRH The Prince Consort after Victorias accesion is my tip.

The King said once that he is feeling very well and that he will reign for 40 years. Maybe not But he will certainly reign for 20 years, until he's 80 - 85. I think Victoria will be queen at the age of 50

 

[Josefine]

i have seen that he will be duke and prince but will it be HRH

 

[HRHofNothing]

i have seen that he will be duke and prince but will it be HRH

Yes there seems to be a lot of confusion wether he will be a HRH or not. Also, he did not get a Dukedom of his own- he will share Victoria's.

 

[lucien]

i have seen that he will be duke and prince but will it be HRH

Yes ofcourse he will be HRH.Like his counterparts in The Netherlands,Denmark,Belgium,UK....etc..

Any discussion on his fututre is moot to a fault.No-one here knows anything about it.Nada.Niente.Almost no-one.
But one can be sure that this/these matters are dealt with in the near future.And,comparing one Monarchy with
the other and the respective tasks goes limp too.

Sweden is a solely representative model Monarchy thus having its entirely specific status among the european
Monarchies and its specific tasks constitutionally for members of the Royal House..

 

[Kotroman]

I hope that Daniel will be given the title of King (consort) of Sweden. If Sweden wanted to bring equality among the genders by introducing equal primogeniture, then it seems logical to me that husband of the Queen would be King just like wife of the King is Queen. They're already following my logic, by giving Daniel princely title and the title of Duke of Västergötland (the title born by Victoria).

I don't think that husband should share his wife's title, but I'm not convinced that equal primogeniture is the right way of succession either. If they want equality, then they should go for it in every aspect. Yet I'm afraid that Daniel will be prince consort only, regardless of the fact that it would be too patriarchal for modern society.

 

[PrinceS]

How to Make Daniel into a Prince

I've read a few tidbits here and there that Daniel was put into some kind of rigorous training recently to improve his acceptability as a future consort. After searching the forum I can't locate precisely what that entailed. So does anybody know the details of what went into this training period, what he was taught, what he had to give up, etc... Thanks!

 

[Jacknch]

Oh this is brilliant question! It would be interesting to know what Daniel's training has been or more likely what it's going to be over the next year or so before the wedding! Personally, I suspect he has a fair idea of some of the various protocols which he will have picked up over the last few years. I think that his training will depend very much on what kind of role the palace sees for him and whether he will take up charitable interests. Anyone else have any thoughts on this question?

 

[Jacknch]

I think that, as previous posts have suggested, the title King and Queen should be reserved for the actual monarch only and their spouse hold the title Prince/Princess Consort or just Prince/Princess. It seems that this is what will happen in Britain when Charles comes to the throne and Camilla will (we are told) be Princess Consort.

I can understand that if you have full equality with titles then the husband of a reigning queen ought to have the benefit of his wife's title but until this actually happens in reality, I think people may feel it sounds odd!

Incidentally, people may have heard of the island of Sark in the Channel Islands which was (until recently) one of the last feudal states in the world. Sark is governed by a feudal lord called a Seigneur. Earlier in the 1900's the Seigneur at the time had no male children and so when he died his daughter Sybil took on the role of Seigneur and was called The Dame of Sark. She got married to an American chap and the feudal law in the island stipulated that as her husband, he would take on the title Seigneur and carry out the duties that came with the job. As it happened, Sybil Hathaway The Dame of Sark who was quite a character and a feisty woman continued to "reign" over the island and make most of the decisions. When her husband died, there was a great dispute as to whether she could continue as Dame of Sark because technically the Seignuer had died and the title should have been passed to her son. It's an interesting story!

 

[lyndaW]

I did read (some where) that he was "trying" to learn English

 

[Lena]

I guess, what he could expect would be some studies on geography. Might be, that Victoria had answered it a bit too fast for him, but to say nothing on the question, what he would know about Västergötland was a bit embarrassing

I´ve often read, that he got lessons in English...but there is nothing indicating, that it really was the case. But it surely will be an important part of his "school"
Unlike Letizia he can´t be "silent" really. If he wanna get engaged in "business", as he had suggested it, English would be very important. And so many Swedes are really good in English. The husband of the future Queen, can´t be worse than them...

I don´t think he did spend much time on his "prince school" yet. And all the help, he got with PR, he had self paid and chosen...

 

[sgl]

I would imagine that he is probably being taught the history of the SRF, as well as Sweden's diplomatic relations throughout history.