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  #261  
Old 05-28-2010, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by laduchesse View Post
I think it would be unfortunate not to give him HRH status, particularly since Princess Lillian has it, as do other spouses of crown princes. And if Prince CP's spouse can have it, it would be very wrong for Daniel not to. It would kind of look bad if they didn't after saying he might in the press too. Also, if the King doesn't and later Victoria does as queen, then it leaves the door opened to people questioning how much the king really approved of Daniel.
I agree about it making it look awkward if they have to wait for Victoria to give him the HRH. They really have to do it at some point, becuase he'll be consort and I think its important for the consort to have the HRH, as far as lining up for official events. Without the HRH he'd "line up" behind his kids, CP and his wife, and Madeleine insead of next to Victoria.
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  #262  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:02 PM
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Not only would it be natural for him to become a Royal Highness upon his marriage to the Crown Princess, it would also be logical form him to become Crown Prince of Sweden and eventually King consort of Sweden (unless, of course, the wife of the next male Swedish monarch/heir won't be Queen/CP of Sweden). A gender-equal monarchy should treat the spouses of female monarchs just like the spouses of male monarchs, since female monarchs are not lesser than male monarchs.

But I don't think Swedish monarchy is really that gender-blind
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  #263  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:40 PM
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But what happens when Victoria becomes Queen is another issues, because while the King decides who gets what title (or doesn't) now, when Victoria is Queen it will be up to her what Daniel is called. She will be the first queen in what will be over 300 years, so they may not want to make Daniel king when the last raining queen give up their thrones for a man (her husband) to rule.
Also it's not just the title of king compared to prince and a queen to a princess that makes it unequal, but HM versus HRH, that makes it unequal on two fronts, with no in between. If there was a title and style in between a HM king/queen and HRH prince/princess, that would solve the problem. Anyone know of such a thing?
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  #264  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:18 PM
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"King consort of Sweden" does not sound bad actually.

But if the style is what really ranks you - not the title - than I guess it should be "HRH The King consort of Sweden".
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  #265  
Old 05-29-2010, 04:30 PM
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"King consort of Sweden" does not sound bad actually.
I doubt that will happen. It almost makes him seem "higher" than Victoria. Prince Daniel, Duke of Vastergotland (hope I spelled it right) sounds good to me.
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  #266  
Old 05-29-2010, 06:30 PM
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A HRH King consort would rank lower then a HM Queen consort, so it still unequal, not to mention sounds odd. By in between I meant something king and prince. Besides, how wide used will the whole 'king consort' be used? It would be likely that others would just shorten it to just king. The idea to see Queen first, then King when she regent is a good idea in theory but in practice with copy and paste reporting and in common usage it can be easily switched around to King then Queen by those with a lack of knowledge on the subject. There is no real cross the board solution because different countries would end up following different rules, but makes for an interesting topic.
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  #267  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:38 PM
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Of course I know King Consort is lower than a Queen.
Looking at the some other Queens I see that their husbands all have the "Prince" title. To me I think it would just be weird for him to be King Consort.
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  #268  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:17 PM
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I was referring to the idea of an HRH king consort, which wouldn't be on the same level of HM queen consort (of another country) making one spouse of a regnant lower then another. If it were to be used, HRH King-Consort Daniel (highly unlikely) wouldn't be the on the same level of HM Queen (consort) Mette Marit which lies the problem, two people with the same position (spouse to a regnant) doing the same job yet not on the same rank.

I understand he reasoning for withholding the title King from male consorts, since its seen as a high rank. Just look at playing cards, the King is higher the Queen. But when its done, if a person is unfamiliar with that royal you wouldn't know a prince is the husband to a queen. Of course there is also the route of making the female spouse a princess consort. And while the title consort prince(ss) can help clarify things to me the usage of consort make sound odd, consort isn't a word often used in day to day life, it makes it sound like he(or she) is the head concubine.

The decision is like being between a rock and a hard place, choosing to having a king consort and running the risk of mistaking whose the one who reining, and choosing to have to have him treated unequally. What she chooses when it's her time depends on what she thinks is more important, gender equality or making it clear who is in charge.

Her decision might also be influnced by weather her heir is a male or female. If her first child is a girl, her daughter's husband will also be effected by what she does. Or if it's a son, will she want to keep her daughter-in-law from being Queen, a title her mother had? But this wont be for another 20 years, and even then she doesn't have to make a change (if any) immediately, she can always upgrade him later if she wishes.
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  #269  
Old 05-30-2010, 04:16 AM
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When she becomes Queen how about HM Prince Daniel. There then would be no doubting that he is not the monarch and he would have the same rank as the other consorts but without the eye candy King title and they can be announced as their Majesties the Queen and Prince.
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  #270  
Old 05-30-2010, 04:47 AM
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When she becomes Queen how about HM Prince Daniel. There then would be no doubting that he is not the monarch and he would have the same rank as the other consorts but without the eye candy King title and they can be announced as their Majesties the Queen and Prince.
He wouldn't be His Majesty Prince Daniel upon Victoria becoming Queen. I don't think it is right for him to become His Majesty King Consort.
He doesn't have an equal rank to Victoria. He could either be the Prince Consort or just Prince Daniel.
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  #271  
Old 05-30-2010, 05:49 AM
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He wouldn't be His Majesty Prince Daniel upon Victoria becoming Queen. I don't think it is right for him to become His Majesty King Consort.
He doesn't have an equal rank to Victoria. He could either be the Prince Consort or just Prince Daniel.
Well none of the Scandinavian heir's wife's had equal rank to their spouses, it has come through marriage so I have to disagree with you and say if we have Queen consorts then I cannot see why we should not have gender equality in the world of Royal consorts.

I understand why there is a reluctance to give males the King consort title but I see absolutely no reason why he cannot become HM prince which I proposed as a compromise as Daniel will be married to a reigning Queen of no lesser rank than the future Scandinavian Kings and all spouses ranks come through them. Just because something is as it is does not mean it must always be. Sweden has not had a Queen for centuries and there are no rules set in concrete around male consorts that it must follow.
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  #272  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:41 AM
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Daniel will I'm sure, just like Henrik, Philip and Bernhard before him, only ever be an HRH at the most.
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  #273  
Old 05-30-2010, 08:12 AM
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Well none of the Scandinavian heir's wife's had equal rank to their spouses, it has come through marriage so I have to disagree with you and say if we have Queen consorts then I cannot see why we should not have gender equality in the world of Royal consorts.

I understand why there is a reluctance to give males the King consort title but I see absolutely no reason why he cannot become HM prince which I proposed as a compromise as Daniel will be married to a reigning Queen of no lesser rank than the future Scandinavian Kings and all spouses ranks come through them. Just because something is as it is does not mean it must always be. Sweden has not had a Queen for centuries and there are no rules set in concrete around male consorts that it must follow.
It has never been known that a spouse of a Queen is known as HM King Consort.

He will most likely be known as His Royal Highness Prince Daniel, The Prince Consort.
Which is the way it should be done.
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  #274  
Old 05-30-2010, 08:15 AM
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Mr Daniel Westling become Prince of Sweden
At Kronprinsessbröllopet June 19, 2010, the king to order that Mr Daniel Westling conferred a title of prince.
After the wedding will Mr Daniel Westling be the Prince of Sweden and member of the royal house, namely Royal Highness. He then styled H.K.H. Prince Daniel. During the ceremony, he is also Duke of Västergötland, as HRH Crown Princess Victoria is the Duchess of Västergötland.

Herr Daniel Westling blir Prins av Sverige - Sveriges Kungahus [NS4 version]
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  #275  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:28 AM
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Well there we have it.
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  #276  
Old 05-30-2010, 10:11 AM
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Anything else (not being granted the style of an HRH) would have been not only unjust, but rediculous imho.
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  #277  
Old 05-30-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
It has never been known that a spouse of a Queen is known as HM King Consort.

He will most likely be known as His Royal Highness Prince Daniel, The Prince Consort.
Which is the way it should be done.
This is not quite true! Prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha became King Consort of Portugal when his wife became Queen Maria II of Portgual.

Although the Iberian monarchies have have different rules regarding titles in general.

I suppose we will all have to wait and see.
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  #278  
Old 05-30-2010, 12:47 PM
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This is not quite true! Prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha became King Consort of Portugal when his wife became Queen Maria II of Portgual.

Although the Iberian monarchies have have different rules regarding titles in general.

I suppose we will all have to wait and see.
There have been a few King Consorts whether or not they were HM with it I do not know.

Francis of Assisi (named after the saint) was King Consort to Isabella II of Spain and because of this Queen Victoria of England tried to lobby parliament to have her Prince Albert made King Consort but the reply came he’s a “foreigner”(both Isabella and Victoria reigned at the same time)

Mary Queen of Scots famously announced her husband as King of the Scots and her ability do so was not formally challenged.

King Philip II of Spain upon his marriage to Queen Mary I became King Consort of England and Ireland.
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  #279  
Old 05-30-2010, 05:01 PM
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I doubt that will happen. It almost makes him seem "higher" than Victoria. Prince Daniel, Duke of Vastergotland (hope I spelled it right) sounds good to me.
"Higher" than Victoria? Why is a king (consort) higher than a queen (regnant)? What about gender equality? That's exactly the problem. The Swedish monarchy is supposed to be gender blind, yet we still consider female monarchs to be inferior to male monarchs. How? Well, husband of a female monarch is not allowed to share his wife's rank and title because the title of king is thought to be superior to the title of queen! Why would the masculine title be higher than the feminine title?

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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
He wouldn't be His Majesty Prince Daniel upon Victoria becoming Queen. I don't think it is right for him to become His Majesty King Consort.
He doesn't have an equal rank to Victoria. He could either be the Prince Consort or just Prince Daniel.
Did Miss Silvia Sommerlath, a flight attendant, have an "equal rank" to King Carl XVI Gustaf? We all know the answer, yet she became a Majesty and Queen of Sweden.

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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Daniel will I'm sure, just like Henrik, Philip and Bernhard before him, only ever be an HRH at the most.
Henrik, Philip and Bernhard were never husbands of heiresses apparent. Their wives were heiresses presumptive. The monarchies of the United Kingdom, Denmark and the Netherlands used male-preferance cognatic primogeniture and did not claim to be "gender-blind". 21st century Sweden is probably a bit different than 20th century UK, Denmark and the Netherlands.

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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
It has never been known that a spouse of a Queen is known as HM King Consort.
King Francis of Spain, King Francis of Scotland, King Henry of Scotland, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
He will most likely be known as His Royal Highness Prince Daniel, The Prince Consort.
Which is the way it should be done.
Why should it be done that way? Is that gender equality, wives of kings being queens and husbands of queens being princes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
King Philip II of Spain upon his marriage to Queen Mary I became King Consort of England and Ireland.
Actually, Philip became monarch (not consort) of England and Ireland by marrying Mary I, thanks to a special Act of Parliament and their marriage treaty.
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  #280  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:28 PM
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Mr Daniel Westling become Prince of Sweden

His Majesty's announcement after consultation with the Government:

The Crown Princess wedding June 19, 2010, the king to order that Mr Daniel Westling conferred a title of prince. After the wedding will Mr Daniel Westling be the Prince of Sweden and member of the royal house, namely Royal Highness. He then styled H.K.H. Prince Daniel. During the ceremony, he is also Duke of Västergötland, as HRH Crown Princess Victoria is the Duchess of Västergötland.


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