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  #381  
Old 11-23-2006, 02:07 PM
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I found this article in one of the most monarchic diaries of Spain and I don't know what to make of it

http://www.abc.es/20061123/gente-gen...611230245.html

Victoria of Sweden leaves her commoner Boyfriend

Although expected, the news that the Royal House Cronist Sten Heman in the źSE╗ has fallen like a real bomb in the swedish society.

Hedman assures that CP Victoria, after 5 years of relationship has decided to end things with Daniel Westling.

The motives are very clear: Victoria has realized that neither her father the King nor the swedish people are very pleased about the relationship and on the other hand, the tax evasion; Daniel tried to avoid paying taxes for things he should so it got to a lot of rumors.


What do you think of this?
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  #382  
Old 11-23-2006, 03:09 PM
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I don't believe in it for a second!

First "Se", i suppose it is "Se och H÷r" isn't among the more thrustworthy gossipmagazines, and the Swedish tabloids has nothing about it on their homepages which means that they doesn't believe in it either so this bomb must have fallen within a very small section of Swedish society.
Second there is nothing about Daniels taxation that is particularly interesting. Most of the money was either his businesspartners or the companys. The sum was nowhere near big enough for a prosecutor to be interested in it Daniels own part of it was that he wrote less than a thousand euros to little in his incomestatement and thus avoided about 300 euros in taxes. I would say that princess Madeleines parking and driving habits is a much bigger publicityproblem and so is probably the kings way of driving as well.
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  #383  
Old 11-23-2006, 04:57 PM
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Is it another not confirmed or maybe confirmed rumour?
If I good remember they were together with CP&E on some wedding few days ago.
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  #384  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnik
Is it another not confirmed or maybe confirmed rumour?
If I good remember they were together with CP&E on some wedding few days ago.
Yes, exactly. They have been at a wedding together about 12 days ago and both looked happy.
And one shouldn┤t forget, that the Swedish SOH has also written often about a breakup of Emma and Carl Philip and this in times, when it absolutely wasn┤t comprehensible.
Unfortunately the Swedish SOH changed from a more or less "good" magazine to a mag, that confuses its readers with headlines on the cover and in the mag, they have nothing to offer. And actually one would expect, that they check other media or agencies for informations. If, they would have done this, they would have known about the wedding.
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  #385  
Old 11-25-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Stranger things have happened...in Norway, for instance.
Oh, you could also think of him as a "successful businessman and entrepreneur", which sounds much more...successful.
Well, wait and see. Maybe they're about to split up anyway.
His gyms are not so successful any more. Marriages of this kind undermine the monarchy. It is not unusual that women fall for their personal trainers. Butshe should have withdrawn from the beginning, knowing her position.
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  #386  
Old 11-25-2006, 02:03 PM
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Why should have Crown Princess Victoria stopped dating the man whom she loves because he is not from a privileged background?
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  #387  
Old 11-25-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by violante
His gyms are not so successful any more. Marriages of this kind undermine the monarchy. It is not unusual that women fall for their personal trainers. Butshe should have withdrawn from the beginning, knowing her position.
Well, the poor woman will have to marry someone eventually (unless she wants to be single all her lifeand not have a child to continue the monarchy); given her position, she'll have little choice but marrying "that kind of man". You make this seem like a sordid little affair, but hey! She has a right to a private life, a partner of her choice, and even to a couple of dating mistakes. Victoria is an intelligent woman. She's not an airhead that "falls for her personal trainer" for no reason except his sixpacks.
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  #388  
Old 11-26-2006, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Well, the poor woman will have to marry someone eventually (unless she wants to be single all her lifeand not have a child to continue the monarchy); given her position, she'll have little choice but marrying "that kind of man". You make this seem like a sordid little affair, but hey! She has a right to a private life, a partner of her choice, and even to a couple of dating mistakes. Victoria is an intelligent woman. She's not an airhead that "falls for her personal trainer" for no reason except his sixpacks.
No, she can┤t choose just "anyone". She should think of her position and her privileges as a Crown Princess. At least her parents seem to let time pass longer and longer, hopefully she will change her mind. If she is so much in love she can always abdicate,make her home in Ockelbo, there are two more siblings.
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  #389  
Old 11-26-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by violante
No, she can┤t choose just "anyone". She should think of her position and her privileges as a Crown Princess. At least her parents seem to let time pass longer and longer, hopefully she will change her mind. If she is so much in love she can always abdicate,make her home in Ockelbo, there are two more siblings.
True. I wish V all the best in her life. Time pass longer and longer. Maybe becouse she want to be sure that he is right guy for her husband, for a husband of the CPss and future Queen of Sweden.
If Victoria and Daniel are in love and want to marry? If Victoria will marry Daniel or any other man and she will recive approval for this marriage... Why she should abdicate?
But if f.ex. she would abdicate (love or any other reason) for CP what with all these people who wants her for their Queen? What with their confidence and love for her? They change the law for her. She is smart and sensible woman and I don't think that she will abdicate.
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  #390  
Old 11-26-2006, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by violante
No, she can┤t choose just "anyone". She should think of her position and her privileges as a Crown Princess. At least her parents seem to let time pass longer and longer, hopefully she will change her mind. If she is so much in love she can always abdicate,make her home in Ockelbo, there are two more siblings.
Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?
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  #391  
Old 11-26-2006, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?

True. I would even say, it would damage the Monarchy more to abdicate than to marry Mr. Westling. These days the ppl all have eaten the story of romance, love and happiness. We aren┤t anymore in the times of Wallis Simpson...or in the times of Swedish princes losing their titles, because they married commoners. If Victoria would abdicate there would be some kind of "poor Victoria, what cruel system do we have, not allowing heirs to marry, who they want" spirit...it would create the image of the monarchy being something, you can choose, if you are in the mood for it. Victoria self has said, that she never would abdicate, if the Swedish ppl wouldn┤t want her to do that. She would seem like a liar and it would fall back on the Monarchy.
I┤m sure Daniel will have a tough time ahead. Many Swedes, who seem to accept him now, don┤t seem to expect, that they marry for real (and maybe they indeed wouldn┤t). But as the examples of the controversial crown princesses have shown, in the end, he would be accepted (maybe not loved, but accepted and respected)
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  #392  
Old 11-26-2006, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?
agreed. dont understand the fuss nowadays. especially after everything we have seen.
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  #393  
Old 11-27-2006, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?
I don't want to create an argument or suggest certain beliefs to other posters, but I wonder if this isn't based more in a sexist double-standard. It sounds as the original poster was suggesting that Vic should "do the right thing" by abdicating and choosing a private, submissive role only as a wife and mother. I also get the feeling that it was suggested that the king and queen were letting time "go longer and longer" until Vic came to her senses.

I completely agree with you, Smilla. It really is a shame that for all the evils you list about the current crown princesses, they are, for the most part, respected and embraced by their citizens and members of this forum. But when it comes to Daniel, there seems to be a constant undercurrent of criticism. Is it because we think she can, and therefore should, do better? Are we really that scared about his effect on the monarchy? If he was __________ (fill in the blank - taller, more successful, more educated, spoke other languages, etc.) but "had a past" which included anything from drug use, a child, a criminal record, would we overlook those things because of what we call positive attributes? Do we question his love for her or hers for him? It's not like she would be the first monarch to divorce if it didn't work out.

I know I'm throwing a lot out there, but I really am curious about this. I'm not even sure how I personally feel about the situation. Victoria seems to be such a beautiful genuine person and I believe that she will be a wonderful queen because her people love her. In regards to her relationship/private life, however, I sense a lack of fulfillment/unhappiness. I don't know if that has anything to do with Daniel. My feeling is that, no matter what, I would want Victoria to be happy.

Any other thoughts?

Mapper
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  #394  
Old 11-27-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereditary Mapmaker
I don't want to create an argument or suggest certain beliefs to other posters, but I wonder if this isn't based more in a sexist double-standard. It sounds as the original poster was suggesting that Vic should "do the right thing" by abdicating and choosing a private, submissive role only as a wife and mother. I also get the feeling that it was suggested that the king and queen were letting time "go longer and longer" until Vic came to her senses.
Mapper
I so agree with everything you say here (I had to shorten the quote, though).
I have also the impression that Victoria and Daniel W. somehow don't "click". She seems to me so open and approachable, but still very dignified; maybe what creates tension for them both is that she is obviously doing well in all that limelight and it's hard for him to cope with that role (and the expectations of having to be "good enough for her"). Well, of course it's all speculation - I wish her all the luck, and all the love she's meant to have, whether with Daniel W or anybody else; but I definitely defend her right to choose a a partner for herself, whether Daniel W or anybody else.
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  #395  
Old 11-27-2006, 11:48 AM
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Two characteristics that have always been attributed to CP Victoria are; dutiful and determined. I don't believe she would ever consider abdicating for any reason other than at the request of the Swedish people if it would save the monarchy or upon its dissolution. She must also have seen characteristics in Daniel that made her go through with what must have been very difficult earlier years with him. The royal couple must have been very questioning about the relationship and the press have been less than favorable. She must have seen a man that would be a worthy consort for her as the future queen and a man she wanted to have as father for her children and to be her husband. Victoria has through her friend and relatives probably met most of Europe's royal and aristocratic young men yet she did not pursue any of them. Any current crown prince is of course out of the question as she could not as the crown princess marry a regent from another country. Victoria has made up her mind and her sense of duty would not allow for the future consort to not be fully worthy of the role.
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  #396  
Old 11-27-2006, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime
Videla regime. Pinochet was in Chile.
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  #397  
Old 11-27-2006, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gloriana
Videla regime. Pinochet was in Chile.
Ooops...sorry.
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  #398  
Old 11-28-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Why should she abdicate? Did Felipe abdicate? Who eventually married a divorcee? Did Frederick? Mary D. wasn't exactly princess material, either. Did W-A? MAxima had a father who'd been a minister in the Pinochet regime. Did Hakoon? Marrying an ex-drug-abuser with a son out of wedlock? NO. None of them did. And is the world worse now? No. Daniel Westling may not be upper class, but he is neither divorced, nor does he have a kid out of wedlock, nor did he take drugs (as far as I know), nor was his father responsible for any torturing, nor did he take a starmakers course. So this guy has less of a colourful past than any of the new princesses - so - what's the problem?
Since a monarchy is a very oldfashioned institution, crownprinces seem to be able to take anyone nowadays, but it is still the same dynasty. Victoria is a wonderful person,intelligent and stubborn, so we will now have the Westling dynasty from Ockelbo. Her education is also so far above Daniel┤s.
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  #399  
Old 11-28-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by violante
Since a monarchy is a very oldfashioned institution, crownprinces seem to be able to take anyone nowadays, but it is still the same dynasty. Victoria is a wonderful person,intelligent and stubborn, so we will now have the Westling dynasty from Ockelbo. Her education is also so far above Daniel┤s.
I think Daniel was born in Almby...so wouldn┤t it be the "Westling dynasty from Almby"?
I think it┤s your good right to be disappointed. We, from the "outside", have it easy to say "Well, princess X and princess Y aren┤t any better or even worse"...but I guess for a monarchist, who has a certain picture of the monarchy in the mind, it┤s not much comfort to see, that the neighbours have the same "problem". Besides Victoria is a crown princess, who nearly seems, as if she would have been "casted" for the job. She is extremely popular already now (what IMO Haakon wasn┤t before Mette Marit. He surely was liked and everything, but I think he really started to blossom in his marriage) and Daniel obviously has a hard time to adjust...and IMO one also has to see this. It┤s not just the question, if the person is accepted by the ppl, but also if the person self can accept the role.
So if she would marry him, "mourn" a little for the prince/duke/count, she never married ...and then you can maybe comfort yourself with the fact, that a "prince consort" usually doesn┤t play an important role. And maybe Daniel would win your heart in his role as father. I think, he wouldn┤t be bad in it...
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  #400  
Old 11-28-2006, 11:14 AM
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I say let Crown Princess Victoria marry who she wants for love alone. Providing her choice does not destroy the monarchy or cause some kind of terrible harm to herself or the Swedish people. Which she would not do in any case. She is a human being like the rest of us, would you like to be forced into marriage with someone you didn't love? Let her choose and be happy, she has the same rights as everybody else.

So what if Daniel Westling is not University educated and he is from a normal working class background?
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