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  #541  
Old 06-03-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suztav
Agree with the King on this one --- Carl Philip was born the Crown Prince End of story until the next generation.
They knew before Carl Philip was born that the constitution was going to change and they knew how it would be changed so they should never have made him Crown Prince !
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  #542  
Old 06-03-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thena

The king usually keeps a neutral expression in most photos. I find that it's rare to get a picture of him smiling. However, I noticed that during the christening, he did smile when he looked at Estelle.

As for his feeling regarding Carl Philip and the throne, it wasn't the king's decision. He's a constitutional monarch without much power and has to accept whatever changes the government institutes to the line of succession. It's been more than 30 years since they changed the succession and I'm sure the king adjusted to it by now. A still photo is just a two-dimensional image of a single moment and doesn't fully represent how much the king probably adores his first grandchild.
Completely agree !
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  #543  
Old 06-03-2012, 03:02 PM
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We might be reading too much into the King's expression. He looked happy and proud at the christening and he isn't a very publicly affectionate person. For all we know, Estelle could have needed her nappy changed.
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  #544  
Old 06-03-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by suztav View Post
Agree with the King on this one --- Carl Philip was born the Crown Prince End of story until the next generation.
A change of a law doesn't happen in a day, at least not in Sweden. To change the order of succession in Sweden there have to be two votings in the parliament with an election between the votings. The change in the order of succession took place in 1980, there was a general election in 1979 and the law text for the new succession order was written in 1977. The political parties in the parliament didn't see a reason why they should dicharge a proposed change and wait four more years for a new succession order.
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  #545  
Old 06-03-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by suztav View Post
Agree with the King on this one --- Carl Philip was born the Crown Prince End of story until the next generation.
Actually either neither or both were born as the Crown Princess/Prince. The law change was not a secret and was going to happen. Until a firm date of the change had been legislated neither of them should have been named Crown...
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  #546  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Actually either neither or both were born as the Crown Princess/Prince. The law change was not a secret and was going to happen. Until a firm date of the change had been legislated neither of them should have been named Crown...
It´s not like you just name them crownprince/crownprincess - it´s something that happens naturally when the first child of the king is born, back then only if it was a boy, much like when a new king/queen becomes sovereign - it happens automaticly. When they passed the law they didn´t know the sex of the child so in one way it was logical to make the only child born yet the heir, even though it became strange in this case since the second child that was born was a boy and then ofcourse became crownprince until the law had come in affect.
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  #547  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rop81 View Post
It´s not like you just name them crownprince/crownprincess - it´s something that happens naturally when the first child of the king is born, back then only if it was a boy, much like when a new king/queen becomes sovereign - it happens automaticly. When they passed the law they didn´t know the sex of the child so in one way it was logical to make the only child born yet the heir, even though it became strange in this case since the second child that was born was a boy and then ofcourse became crownprince until the law had come in affect.
The process for changing the law had already started when Victoria was born even though it was not completed until after Carl Philip's birth. The strange part of the process was that they made the law retroactive and thereby making Victoria the Crown princess. Had they made the law effective prospectively then Carl Philip would have remained the Crown prince. Consequently they could have waited with proclaiming a Crown Princess/Prince until the law was signed. But I don't think anyone expected the law to be in effect retroactively.
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  #548  
Old 06-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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Princess Estelle - a set on Flickr -
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  #549  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
The process for changing the law had already started when Victoria was born even though it was not completed until after Carl Philip's birth. The strange part of the process was that they made the law retroactive and thereby making Victoria the Crown princess. Had they made the law effective prospectively then Carl Philip would have remained the Crown prince. Consequently they could have waited with proclaiming a Crown Princess/Prince until the law was signed. But I don't think anyone expected the law to be in effect retroactively.
The only reason why the law can be seen as retroactive is that Carl Philip was a boy and not a girl. The changes in the order of succession was known to the king and everyone else in Sweden before the birth of Carl Philip. If the king and queen had wanted to avoid a potentially messy situation with who was to be the heir, they could have waited with having their second child to after January 1980.
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  #550  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:25 AM
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The only reason why the law can be seen as retroactive is that Carl Philip was a boy and not a girl. The changes in the order of succession was known to the king and everyone else in Sweden before the birth of Carl Philip. If the king and queen had wanted to avoid a potentially messy situation with who was to be the heir, they could have waited with having their second child to after January 1980.
The effective date was not known. It was decided after Carl Philip was born and the order of succession was signed into law. The King and Queen had no way of knowing (and neither did anyone else) that it would be retroactive. The effective date of the new constitution was Jan. 1, 1980. It was then deemed that it applied to the two royal children at the time and consequently Victoria as the firstborn became Crownprincess. The discussion regarding a change in the succession had actually started when Carl Gustaf became King. At the time Prince Bertil was the only option for a successor in case the King died or did not have a son (he was at the time not married yet either) as his sisters were not able to succeed him.
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  #551  
Old 06-08-2012, 04:14 AM
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Here is a link to the propositon on changes in the order of succession, from December 8, 1977: Propositioner och skrivelser - riksdagen.se

In §1 it mentions children of king Carl XVI Gustav and that an elder child will have precedence over a younger child. If the king would have wanted it any other way, the time for him to protest how the order of succession was written was before it went to voting in the Swedish parliament, not after it had been ratified, i.e. after the birth of Carl Philip, then it was too late for any objections.
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  #552  
Old 06-08-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
Here is a link to the propositon on changes in the order of succession, from December 8, 1977: Propositioner och skrivelser - riksdagen.se

In §1 it mentions children of king Carl XVI Gustav and that an elder child will have precedence over a younger child. If the king would have wanted it any other way, the time for him to protest how the order of succession was written was before it went to voting in the Swedish parliament, not after it had been ratified, i.e. after the birth of Carl Philip, then it was too late for any objections.
Theses are only the propositions. Before it could become law it had to be voted on by two "riksdagar". The law went into effect Jan. 1, 1980 without any provision of it being applied retroactively. It was very much protested by the King that the law was then applied retroactively.

The discussion regarding the succession was originally started as I mentioned when Carl Gustaf became King and neither he nor the only successor Prince Bertil were married. The King married eventually and the discussions died down.
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  #553  
Old 06-08-2012, 11:24 AM
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The bottom line here is that in fact, everyone knew prior to the birth of Carl Philip that Princess Victoria would become Crown Princess.
Even as early as at the time of her christening, headlines asked whether it was the baptism of a future Crown Princess people were witnessing.
This question mark became an exclamation mark before the arrival of the second child; what you label 'only the propositions' were actually the changes which took a (rather too) long time to get ratified, but their ratification was already guaranteed.
I always considered it to be quite ill-advised that King Carl Gustaf voiced his disapproval at such a late stage, particularly since you are correct that discussions about the change in the order of succession began immediately after he became King in 1973.
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  #554  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:31 PM
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The discussion on the succession is very interesting but maybe it should be continued here?
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...nge-10379.html

Just a suggestion.
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  #555  
Old 06-10-2012, 04:26 AM
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  #556  
Old 06-20-2012, 03:34 PM
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  #557  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:20 AM
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The whole christening broadcast is on Youtube, including arrivals and bonus material:





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  #558  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:22 AM
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Thanks for the videos, I enjoyed watching them.

Little Estelle is such a cutie.
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  #559  
Old 02-02-2013, 05:51 PM
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In these days of focus on the royal family of the Netherlands I keep thinking back on Maxima at this christening.


When she walked in the Church along Crown Prince Frederik and Princess Madeleine I think she somehow looked displeased. Maybe she wanted to arrive with her husbond? Did anyone of you get the same impression? And do you have an explanations?
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  #560  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:47 PM
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In these days of focus on the royal family of the Netherlands I keep thinking back on Maxima at this christening.


When she walked in the Church along Crown Prince Frederik and Princess Madeleine I think she somehow looked displeased. Maybe she wanted to arrive with her husbond? Did anyone of you get the same impression? And do you have an explanations?
A saw a Princess Maxima that was smiling, chatty, relaxed and perfectly at ease.
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