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  #141  
Old 05-31-2011, 03:17 AM
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Im not expecting it to be but,I think Scotland should have it's own monarchy back again.It's unfair that it is always associated with England and lost it's identity.


Well if it did,Prince Andrew and Princess Beatrice would be the next monarchs of that country and I dont think that's their thing.
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  #142  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:23 AM
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Ummm that has been the case in the former Eastern Bloc for decades, and more specifically the Balkans and Caucasus. Those countries not only have to deal with the awful legacy of Communism- which is still not fully undone- but also of some quite nasty conflicts. Enough time has passed for most people to see that what they have now is incapable of fulfilling what those countries need. With Portugal you have a point.
IIRC, in russia following the collapse of the Soviet bloc, people in St. Petersburg were calling out for the Tsar. I have no idea to what extent (i.e. was it a relatively small gathering or was it actually a (local) popular movement that just petered out).

The problem for dictatorships reverting to monarchism is that other (democratic) countries just see one dictatorship replacing another. If, however, a relatively democratic state would reintroduce monarchism, the legitimacy - and foreign support - would be stronger.
In the eastern European countries, it would be hard to pick up a legitimate line, why it was more reasonable to go republican in the moment.

But eventually - we see it in Greece, Balkan and Italy - the pretenders are allowed back in the countries and could in time win some popular support - or find a natural "aristocratic", elevated role. And if the previously mentioned events were to take place, an established claimant could be reaching for the throne with a reasonable amount of popular support.
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  #143  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:41 AM
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In Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria and Georgia, there is a clear claimant to the throne, significant public support for restoration, and in Serbia's case Alexander actually wants it.

Quote:
But eventually - we see it in Greece, Balkan and Italy - the pretenders are allowed back in the countries and could in time win some popular support - or find a natural "aristocratic", elevated role. And if the previously mentioned events were to take place, an established claimant could be reaching for the throne with a reasonable amount of popular support.
Greece and Italy are exceptional cases. Whereas most monarchies were unjustly overthrown with regimes replacing them almost invariably worse (especially Portugal and Germany), Greece and Italy were the only countries to abolish them by referendum.

In Italy's case, besides the fairness of the referendum being questioned, the House of Savoy is hard for anyone to defend (IMO), yet the treatment metered out to them does seem grossly unfair considering that the Mussolini family not only stayed in Italy, but are still in politics.

In Greece, the royal family was/is a divisive issue and a restoration is extremely unlikely even compared to the other examples, yet it does seem that Greeks' attitudes towards Constantine and his family have softened somewhat, presumably linked to the discrediting of its political elites.
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  #144  
Old 05-31-2011, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
Im not expecting it to be but,I think Scotland should have it's own monarchy back again.It's unfair that it is always associated with England and lost it's identity.


Well if it did,Prince Andrew and Princess Beatrice would be the next monarchs of that country and I dont think that's their thing.
I they did, whcih I think they shoudl if they break up the United Kingdom is to elect one not just take the first availabel British royal.
Create a new Scot Royal house based on the oldest Scots noble house for example.
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  #145  
Old 06-09-2011, 06:16 PM
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RUSSIA! Just because they had the coolest monarchy/atocracy.
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  #146  
Old 06-12-2011, 10:55 PM
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The restoration of a monarchy or toppling a monarchy, just proves that the grass is always greener on the other. Everything has it's attributes and it's downfalls - nothing goes untouched, nothing is ever perfect. A country's form of government can be changed, but with time comes also the realization that the 'new' government has it's flaws. Be careful for what you pray for, you might just get it!
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  #147  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:35 AM
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The restoration of a monarchy or toppling a monarchy, just proves that the grass is always greener on the other. Everything has it's attributes and it's downfalls - nothing goes untouched, nothing is ever perfect. A country's form of government can be changed, but with time comes also the realization that the 'new' government has it's flaws. Be careful for what you pray for, you might just get it!
I think it's fair to say that a) most monarchies that fell were unjustly overthrown and b) the regimes that replaced them were invariably worse for their people, and much more than that.
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  #148  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:40 AM
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I think it's fair to say that a) most monarchies that fell were unjustly overthrown and b) the regimes that replaced them were invariably worse for their people, and much more than that.

I can't think of any monarchy that was unjustly overthrown, certainly not in modern times (the Stuarts would be the only one I can think if since the Middle Ages) although I do agree that the regimes that replaced them were often worse than that that came before.

Please name the monarchies that were 'unjustly' overthrown and why you think it was 'unjust'.
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  #149  
Old 06-14-2011, 02:50 AM
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Unfortunately, for you 'unjustly' is one of those words that is considered 'relative.' What he considers unjust, you may not. In other words, it is simply his opinion. Whether you agree with his opinion or not is totally irrelevant - his point of view has been stated.
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  #150  
Old 06-14-2011, 09:34 AM
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Unfortunately, for you 'unjustly' is one of those words that is considered 'relative.' What he considers unjust, you may not. In other words, it is simply his opinion. Whether you agree with his opinion or not is totally irrelevant - his point of view has been stated.
Without going into any political discussions due to the taboo here, what did happen to half of Europe after 1945 - which affects Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Romania and Bulgaria - was definitely unjust and its effects are still being felt. The simple fact that the regimes that replaced what had been in place before proved disastrous for not only those countries, but ultimately for many more, would alone make the depositions unjust.
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  #151  
Old 06-14-2011, 07:08 PM
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I can't think of any monarchies that were unjustly overthrown. I do think that certain members of families, Louis XVI and his family, Nicholas II and his family were unjustly murdered; but the monarchy was not unjustly overthrown. France is a good example of the grass being greenier on the other side and going back and forth throughout the centuries.
BTW is America on this list? We didn't overthrow a monarchy we just didn't want them in control of the country anymore. And from an outsider it looks like Russia got worse without their Tsar under the communist; but they went out 20yrs ago and since then I don't know if it is better or worse.
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  #152  
Old 06-14-2011, 07:15 PM
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RUSSIA! Just because they had the coolest monarchy/atocracy.
Copy that. And if they could restore the treasures they once had made by Faberge all the better.
However I'm not sure who I would want to take up the mantle of Tsar, who are you rooting for Xenia?
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  #153  
Old 06-14-2011, 07:19 PM
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I agree 100% with XeniaCasiraghi...none on the monarchies you mention were unjustly overthrown...at the time of both the Russian and French Revolutions most of the populace were living in conditions that were shocking and unsustainable.

Revolution could have been(in my opinion) avoided in both cases.

The Russian autocrats were themselves brutal and bigoted(the pograms against the Jews for example) and the French monarchs with their immorality, lechery and merciless taxation to fund their endless parade of wars and mistresses almost guaranteed Revolution.

It was the execution of their families(Bourbon and Romanov) that included in both cases innocent children that blighted these Revolutions, imo...and caused me to have more sympathy for the Royals than for the Revolutionaries...also in both cases.
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  #154  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:16 AM
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The world does not need another royal family. We have more than enough tabloid 'news' to digest (and laugh at) in one week!
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  #155  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:09 PM
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As they are already a RF, there won't be "another one". They would only be reinstated.
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  #156  
Old 06-16-2011, 08:49 PM
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I agree 100% with XeniaCasiraghi...none on the monarchies you mention were unjustly overthrown...at the time of both the Russian and French Revolutions most of the populace were living in conditions that were shocking and unsustainable...
You are right on the mark. You have assessed this situation, perfectly.
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  #157  
Old 06-17-2011, 05:38 PM
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Greece is in such trouble right now, I am sure sentiment has a lot of people wanting them back. However, I don't think it will happen.
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  #158  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:35 PM
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Perhaps the Greek have their back to the wall and would perhaps be glad for some support from a potential contender ?
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  #159  
Old 06-17-2011, 08:15 PM
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The last thing the Greeks need is a monarchy, today. They need financial savy people, not pomp and circumstance. By the way, NotHRH, I love to peruse all this stuff. But monarchies are archaic and are fine if they are accepted and are there, but restoring one is foolhardy. Sorry, Russo.
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  #160  
Old 06-17-2011, 08:24 PM
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Crown Princes of Serbia seem to be well accepted in their country. Maybe the monarchy will be restored there.
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