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View Poll Results: In your opinion, which European country is more likely to become a republic?
Belgium 81 20.25%
Denmark 12 3.00%
Great Britain 39 9.75%
Liechtenstein 12 3.00%
Luxembourg 9 2.25%
Monaco 16 4.00%
The Netherlands 4 1.00%
Norway 55 13.75%
Spain 141 35.25%
Sweden 31 7.75%
Voters: 400. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:52 AM
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Will the restitution of the monarchy be the cure for an economic crisis there? I doubt it
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  #282  
Old 09-22-2010, 09:09 AM
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Long live Constitutional monarchy!

I pray NONE of these nations lose their monarchies; they are part of the nations' culture and legacy. I can just think of Anatole France's PERFECT ANSWER......"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free."
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  #283  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:54 AM
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Spain - last in, first out.
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  #284  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:03 PM
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Sweden - no power for the monarch, so what's the sense of holding the monarchy?
More and more Swedes want to abolish it.
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  #285  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:44 PM
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Well... the monarchy is something that belongs to the culture and tradition of a country.
Almost all of these current monarchies are just..."something" (i'm not finding the right word in english) that adorn, decorate the country. The kings and queens or whoever reigning monarch don't have the absolute power to rule the country. Actually, just a few do rule the country. Now these nations that have monarchs have presidents too.

And, of all of these monarchies, i think that Spain is the one most likely to become a republic again. Or at least that is what a majority of spanish people wants. They like King JC and Queen Sofia but i know a lot, a lot of people that hate Felipe and not even want to hear the name "Letizia". There are lot of people that, i'm almost sure, won't let Letizia be the queen. Or at least, they won't agree with it.
Besides, there's a lot of political problems going on there.

And the other monarchy, it might be Sweden. Sure, they love Victoria and Silvia, and Carl Gustaf, but if Carl Philp is going to marry to that girl Sofia, and it's going to spend the people's money on her...well, i think you get the point, they won't like that at all.
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  #286  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mapleleaf134 View Post
I don't think British monarchy will go that easily. Same with the Danish, Dutch and Luxembourg. Now Spain and Norway I see many people who are losing interest in them. In Spain people are very Juancarlistas, even with Letizia there it hasn't change that much IMO. If only could Elena become Queen!
What could Infanta Elena change? She appears to be a fine individual, good mother. However, I do not think she enjoys higher popularity ratings than Prince and Princess Asturias.
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I agree - some as the British and Danish have been around for many centuries and people dont remember the country in a different form of government as constitutional monarchy but some, like Norway, Sweden or especially Spain don't have much of a recent history at all. All countries can well do without a monarch, have done so in the past, and therefore the public is less attached to them or will look for alternatives if the Royal Family doesnt fit into expectations any longer.

As a consequence, especially in Spain they try to look as busy and important as possible, with huge agendas, hidden holidays etc because if the public gets annoyed with their demeanor they will be gone very fast, it has been done before. ... [snipped]
I fully agree with your opinion. Almost all monarchies exert every effort to show their relevance and importance. Such fuss might be perceived as disingenuous. The current generation of pragmatics tend to be tired of shows and just go directly to comparisons and costs of having the royal family.
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  #287  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathalie Cox View Post
Now these nations that have monarchs have presidents too.
Monarchies don't have presidents, republics do. But most (if not all) modern monarchies in Europe have prime ministers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathelie Cox
And the other monarchy, it might be Sweden. Sure, they love Victoria and Silvia, and Carl Gustaf, but if Carl Philp is going to marry to that girl Sofia, and it's going to spend the people's money on her...well, i think you get the point, they won't like that at all.
No, I don't get the point at all. I don't know how popular Sofia is (she doesn't make public appearances yet), but if anything, I say it's the family's treatment of her, that would annoy people, not anything she has done.
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  #288  
Old 10-14-2010, 01:48 PM
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I think the Spanish monarchy is as safe as houses, to be honest.

According to a poll relased earlier this year, 75% of Spanish citizens place the Spanish monarchy above all others government institutions. Also, the king is widely considered one of the top ten most popular public figures... and he is rather a boaring public speaker himself.
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  #289  
Old 10-14-2010, 03:06 PM
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Northern Ireland, I don't understand why they can't unify the country. I'm sure the Roman Catholic and Protestants could find a way to get along.
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  #290  
Old 10-14-2010, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by timtonruben359 View Post
Despite all the hype prior to the wedding, support for Monarchy in Sweden has dipped below 60%. I wouldn't be surprised it that's changed now that the weddings over, but still if things don't turn around, I don't think the futures bright there.
I don't think that right now the situation is bad for the Swedish monarchy, even if the support appears to be low in polls. I was thinking about the abolished monarchies in Europe and I came to the conclusion that , abolishing the monarchy didn't happen to these countries because people had some theoretical debate about the advantages and disadvantages of the system but because the countries faced sort sort of unstability, political, social or other. Think about it: Russia abolished monarchy because of social and economic problems , Germany and Austria after WWI , Yugoslavia Bulgaria and Rumania after WWII and the coming of communism, Italy also after WWII , Greece after a 7 years dictatorship etc. In all the above mentioned countries there was some factor which sort of destabilized them, in one way or another . So ,IMO, the next country who will abolish monarchy in Europe will be the one who will face major economic , social or political destabilisation (I hope I got this word right ), because the way I see it, if a country has a stable political system , fairly good ecomny and doesn't face major social problems. people won't really bother changing their system no matter what the percentage of republican is.
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  #291  
Old 10-28-2010, 01:49 AM
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IMO, Sweden is most likely to become a republic. 75% of Spanish citizens place their monarchy above any other public instutution in the country, while only 65% or so Sweeds have a positive opinion of the role of monarchy in their country.

So Swenden is most likely to go republican... they've already castrated the monarchy anyway.
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  #292  
Old 10-28-2010, 05:42 AM
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I've looked at this thread many times and I haven't voted until now, I voted for Sweden and I was surprised to see that 74 people voted for Spain.
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  #293  
Old 10-28-2010, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Nathalie Cox View Post
Well... the monarchy is something that belongs to the culture and tradition of a country.
Almost all of these current monarchies are just..."something" (i'm not finding the right word in english) that adorn, decorate the country.
You are right: Nowadays European monarchs serve only for repreentation, they have no politcal power, they cannot express their political opinions - they have to do what Prime Minister, government & parliament order them.

My country was also a monarchy in earlier ages, France was, Russia, Portugal, Germany...but this time is over and this countries didn't retroceed in their development becoming republics.

As for tradition: Tradition is for people, not people for tradition.
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  #294  
Old 10-28-2010, 09:53 AM
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We live in very uncertain times today, and as Zonk said above, in too many countries there is an increasingly polarised political situation, even in the best democracies. In such times, the importance of tradition and institutions above politics is paramount, which is where the value of monarchies in countries that retain them are.

No few of us, and certainly many of our parents and grandparents (who in turn had it passed down from their parents and grandparents), can remember anywhere between 1914 and 1989 when, let's face it, Europe was more or less at war with itself with two World Wars and the Cold War. This came after the so-called "Long 19th Century" between 1789 and 1914, the period between the French Revolution and World War I, that saw profound changes in the social and political makeup of Europe. It's in this context that we come to realise that too radical a change can be a bad thing for everybody.

And we can also remember the worst abusers of human rights, apart from absolute monarchies in the Middle East, were the dictatorships of Latin America and Eastern Europe, and those weren't monarchies. I guess from seeing how those regions in particular are still coming to terms with the mess of the 20th century, we can appreciate what we have here and now.

You can't say that Germany and Portugal were exactly better off after their monarchies were overthrown. It took many years for Portugal to evolve into a stable democratic republic, and that came after 50 years of dictatorship. Similarly in Germany and Austria, you have some historians arguing that if the monarchies had survived, they might have prevented the rise of Hitler and National Socialism, though I'm not sure if everyone would agree with that one.

Maybe it's in this context, that people are reluctant to change what they have now.
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  #295  
Old 10-28-2010, 10:35 AM
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Who said Spanish monarchy is new? The Borbons reign since XVIII century. I voted for Spain because it was the only country I have ever seen talking about The Third Republic with seriousness.
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  #296  
Old 10-28-2010, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
You are right: Nowadays European monarchs serve only for repreentation, they have no politcal power, they cannot express their political opinions - they have to do what Prime Minister, government & parliament order them.

My country was also a monarchy in earlier ages, France was, Russia, Portugal, Germany...but this time is over and this countries didn't retroceed in their development becoming republics.

As for tradition: Tradition is for people, not people for tradition.
I disagree with you and Biri.
Monarchies would not be around for long if they were merely "decorative".
They are personifications of national identities, especially in periods of crisis.
In democracies, their role of being outside the political squabble is important. Royals may represent the establishment but not the politicians. Especially as so very politicians are statesmen.
In contrast to politicians royals genuinely represent their countries, because that is the main purpose of their existance, while very few politicians can free themselves form the suspicion of mainly doing whatever they do just to get votes.

Also, tradition is pretty important. Tradition represent stabillity in a changing world and a fix point back in time, that hopefully, is above politics.
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  #297  
Old 10-29-2010, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by David V View Post
We live in very uncertain times today, and as Zonk said above, in too many countries there is an increasingly polarised political situation, even in the best democracies. In such times, the importance of tradition and institutions above politics is paramount, which is where the value of monarchies in countries that retain them are.

No few of us, and certainly many of our parents and grandparents (who in turn had it passed down from their parents and grandparents), can remember anywhere between 1914 and 1989 when, let's face it, Europe was more or less at war with itself with two World Wars and the Cold War. This came after the so-called "Long 19th Century" between 1789 and 1914, the period between the French Revolution and World War I, that saw profound changes in the social and political makeup of Europe. It's in this context that we come to realise that too radical a change can be a bad thing for everybody.

And we can also remember the worst abusers of human rights, apart from absolute monarchies in the Middle East, were the dictatorships of Latin America and Eastern Europe, and those weren't monarchies. I guess from seeing how those regions in particular are still coming to terms with the mess of the 20th century, we can appreciate what we have here and now.

You can't say that Germany and Portugal were exactly better off after their monarchies were overthrown. It took many years for Portugal to evolve into a stable democratic republic, and that came after 50 years of dictatorship. Similarly in Germany and Austria, you have some historians arguing that if the monarchies had survived, they might have prevented the rise of Hitler and National Socialism, though I'm not sure if everyone would agree with that one.

Maybe it's in this context, that people are reluctant to change what they have now.
Was Italy a monarchy when Mussolini took power? Yes, it was.
Had his dictatorship tragic consequences for the country? Yes, it had.

The rise of dictatorships is not a fault of a republican regime.
Presidents also represent their countries - and Presidents are elected. Although I don't like Hugo Chavez, at this point he is right.

Being elected by your co-citizens (majority of them, of course) gives you a sense of what you do and satisfaction of what you do.
The Presidency shows a beginning and an end; is not a sentence for all your life.

Monarchy doesn't have it; there is all described in the genealogical tree.

As for current monarchies: these countries were simply lucky not to have such monarchs abusing their power who could give them occasion to start a revolution which would overthrow monarchy, like it happened in France.
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  #298  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Was Italy a monarchy when Mussolini took power? Yes, it was.
Had his dictatorship tragic consequences for the country? Yes, it had.

The rise of dictatorships is not a fault of a republican regime.
Presidents also represent their countries - and Presidents are elected. Although I don't like Hugo Chavez, at this point he is right.

Being elected by your co-citizens (majority of them, of course) gives you a sense of what you do and satisfaction of what you do.
The Presidency shows a beginning and an end; is not a sentence for all your life.
I definitely agree, no one system of government is inherently wrong, or better or worse. But I am offering a realistic appraisal of historical and current situations, and also a commentary on the historic ironies that are often lost on those who question the value of monarchy today.

Do we expect a certain standard from monarchs? Absolutely.
Do we expect a certain standard from elected officials? Absolutely, as well.

Quote:
Monarchy doesn't have it; there is all described in the genealogical tree.

As for current monarchies: these countries were simply lucky not to have such monarchs abusing their power who could give them occasion to start a revolution which would overthrow monarchy, like it happened in France.
And that's fair enough. Even in modern times we've seen contrasts between good and bad, especially in the developing world.
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  #299  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:16 AM
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Lady Diana,
I'm not sure whether we are allowed to post about Northern Ireland.

In any case, things have improved hugely in the last three to five years, and the Northern Ireland Assembly government has become one of the devolved administrations in Britain, along with the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.
Either way, the Queen is still in charge :-)

Have a look at the TV coverage on the N.I. Assembly on the BBC:

Welcome to the Northern Ireland Assembly
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  #300  
Old 11-21-2010, 05:37 PM
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Why would you not be 'allowed to post about Northern Ireland'? They are part of the UK are they not?
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