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  #81  
Old 07-27-2016, 07:25 PM
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how long do the descendants of ex monarchs go on using their titles and regarding themselves as royalty before it all becomes meaningless and indeed somewhat pretentious, some sort of strange hobby. I'm not referring here to the aristocracy of any nation but descendants of monarchs in countries where monarchy has been completely abolished for almost a hundred years now with no prospect of it returning, and where the State doesn't recognise their claims and even titles of nobility have to be made part of a person's surname in order to be used.

How long do these people (descendants) cling on to the remnants, titles, a way of life and of address, that has completely disappeared from their native countries? One hundred years, two hundred, three? How long before, in today's world, the whole thing becomes something of a joke, not to fellow royals, whether in the Almanach or not, but to their fellow citizens?
My own idea would be that to be Royal, the consanguinity should stop at a grandchild, male or female, of the Monarch, whoever that might be. And if there are no more Monarchs of a country, then tough biccies. I also think that a Princess (daughter of the Monarch) then her children should be Prince and Princesses too, like Sweden. But I know Royal families of the World will take no notice of my opinion (and rightly so) so it's all moot anyhow!
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  #82  
Old 07-28-2016, 10:38 PM
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well the BRF is cutting back on the use of titles for the less close members of the Family, so that just because someone's great granddad was a Prince or King does not mean that the Prince title goes on in perpetuity. That's been the case for a long time now. And in the case of Edward, his children aren't using the Prince and Princess titles..
If the descendants of non reigning families want to go on with the Prince titles forever and ever that's rather silly but it doesn't really affect anyone...
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  #83  
Old 07-28-2016, 10:56 PM
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The LPs for the BRF were set in 1917 although the Queen did extend them in 2012 to cover all of William's children, instead of just the eldest son who was covered under the 1917 LPs.

I do think that there is no need for any grandchildren, other than of the heir apparent to have HRH so I do hope that Harry's children aren't given that styling and eventually that the LPs are introduced to limit the HRH to only the children of the heir apparent and the heir apparent's children. Now that they have first born as the heir apparent that should be simple enough.

Of course Andrew would kick up a fuss if his girls were to lose HRH but as they aren't doing royal duties there is no need for them to have it anyway.

It should even be possible to issue the new LPs to say something like 'from 1st January, 2017 new HRHs will be limited to - children of the monarch, children of the heir apparent, children of the heir apparent to the heir apparent.' This would mean that no one was actually stripped of their existing titles but only William's children would be HRH into the future and then only George's and not Charlottes (who won't be under the existing LPs anyway)
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  #84  
Old 07-28-2016, 11:05 PM
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Hmmm I always thought Harry's children would have the HRH...as would all children of the future monarch, not just the heir.

I think it should remain that all children of the heir/monarch receive HRH. The grandchildren of the monarch maybe not....but all children yes.


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  #85  
Old 07-28-2016, 11:18 PM
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I think it would be very wrong to take the HRHs away from B and Eugenie. They may not mean anyting to outsiders but they are part of their heritage. I'm sure the queen would never do it.
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  #86  
Old 07-28-2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Hmmm I always thought Harry's children would have the HRH...as would all children of the future monarch, not just the heir.

I think it should remain that all children of the heir/monarch receive HRH. The grandchildren of the monarch maybe not....but all children yes.


LaRae
When his father is king, Yes. As it stands. The LP had to be extended as George and Charlotte are great-grandkids. When Charles is king, same rules apply, all male line grandkids are HRH.

I don't see why you would strip anyone of the HRH. What does it cost? Nothing. Bea and Eugenie don't get paid or other perks for HRH. 2 HRH or 102 HRH, cost the same.
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  #87  
Old 07-29-2016, 12:01 AM
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Well I wouldn't strip them of the HRH. When I say grandchildren (maybe not needing HRH) of the monarch I'm speaking about grandchildren of William.


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  #88  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:22 AM
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The only reason the LPs were extended to include George and Charlotte stems to one thing. Old age. Great grandchildren which include a future heir to the throne resulted from the longevity of the current monarch. It would look odd, I think, to have the third in line to the throne without a HRH while Great Uncle Andrew, who is much further down the line in succession, has a HRH as a son of a monarch.

Things are changing. I never knew some of my grandparents let alone my great grandparents. Today I am a great grandmother and no where near HM's age. (I'm 64).
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  #89  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:48 AM
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Under the existing LPs, George would have had the HRH anyway as he is the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. Without the 2012 LPs Charlotte would have been born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and only become Princess Charlotte when her grandfather becomes King.

The new LPs were issued so that the future monarch would be born with HRH – as they knew that the changes to the Succession to the Crown Act were coming which would have seen a first born girl become the future monarch. It wouldn’t have made sense for a future monarch to be born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and then her younger brother be born with HRH – hence the new LPs.

Harry’s children won’t be HRH’s in the present reign without new LPs if the rumours of a smaller royal family are correct it is possible that his won’t have HRH at all. Charles may not like it but he can’t have it both ways – if he is to strip Andrew’s girls then he can’t give it Harry’s children – who would also only be the children of the second son of the monarch.

Place in the line of succession has nothing to do with HRH's either as there are a number of HRH's below non-HRH's in the line of succession e.g. Princess Alexandra has over 30 non-HRH's ahead of her in that line.
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  #90  
Old 07-29-2016, 03:13 AM
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i think there is never a time a person cease to be royal as long as he is descended in the male line from a marriage that is approved by the royal house law . grand duchess Maria Vladimirovna mother Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhransky was a royal princess in her own right and the last Georgian king from whom she descended in the male line was Constantine II who died in 1505
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  #91  
Old 07-29-2016, 03:23 AM
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and i believe that the greek royal family shouldn't be discussed here with or with out the throne of greece they are all legally HH prince/ss of denmark even the sayn-wittgenstein-berleburg's hold the style HH in denmark
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  #92  
Old 07-29-2016, 03:31 AM
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even the Luxembourg royal family was elevated from HGDH to the more higher style of HRH which came from Grand Duchess Charlotte marriage to a royal prince from a Non-Reigning House Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma
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  #93  
Old 07-29-2016, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
and i believe that the greek royal family shouldn't be discussed here with or with out the throne of greece they are all legally HH prince/ss of denmark even the sayn-wittgenstein-berleburg's hold the style HH in denmark

The berlebergs are HSH in Germany and HH in Denmark correct?
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  #94  
Old 07-29-2016, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
The berlebergs are HSH in Germany and HH in Denmark correct?
yes they are HSH everywhere else else except in denmark the children of princess benedikte were givin the style of HH I don't know about prince richard but her children are indeed HH in denmark
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  #95  
Old 07-29-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Under the existing LPs, George would have had the HRH anyway as he is the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. Without the 2012 LPs Charlotte would have been born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and only become Princess Charlotte when her grandfather becomes King.

The new LPs were issued so that the future monarch would be born with HRH – as they knew that the changes to the Succession to the Crown Act were coming which would have seen a first born girl become the future monarch. It wouldn’t have made sense for a future monarch to be born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and then her younger brother be born with HRH – hence the new LPs.

Harry’s children won’t be HRH’s in the present reign without new LPs if the rumours of a smaller royal family are correct it is possible that his won’t have HRH at all. Charles may not like it but he can’t have it both ways – if he is to strip Andrew’s girls then he can’t give it Harry’s children – who would also only be the children of the second son of the monarch.

Place in the line of succession has nothing to do with HRH's either as there are a number of HRH's below non-HRH's in the line of succession e.g. Princess Alexandra has over 30 non-HRH's ahead of her in that line.
Honestly I don't see Charles stripping his nieces of their HRH. He would be reviled for it.


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  #96  
Old 07-29-2016, 09:03 AM
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The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.
The ex begum Inaara is now Princess of Leiningen . She devorced the Prince who has now a third wife who is the Princess. She is born Holby and should be called Mrs Gabrialla Holby.
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  #97  
Old 07-29-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.
As of now Fürst Alexander and Nadja are not divorced. They are separated but had said then that they wanted to remain on a friendly base.
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  #98  
Old 07-29-2016, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
In German and a number of other European languages there is a linguistic discintion between a prince of a royal family (Prinz - I only know the German so I'm using that as an example) and a prince of the nobility (Furst - it was a rank below duke/herzog), since English titles are based on the French system this linguistic discintion gets lost in translation.
Prinz and Fürst were used by both reigning and noble families, for example, the title of Liechtenstein's reigning prince is Fürst von und zu Liechtenstein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
i think there is never a time a person cease to be royal as long as he is descended in the male line from a marriage that is approved by the royal house law . grand duchess Maria Vladimirovna mother Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhransky was a royal princess in her own right and the last Georgian king from whom she descended in the male line was Constantine II who died in 1505
In spite of being treated as a princess by other ex-royal families, I doubt that she was looked upon as royalty in Georgia, which was under Soviet rule.
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  #99  
Old 07-29-2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.
The ex begum Inaara is now Princess of Leiningen . She devorced the Prince who has now a third wife who is the Princess. She is born Holby and should be called Mrs Gabrialla Holby.
She is not Prinzessin zu Leiningen as a title, she only wants to be referred to a title which belongs to a gentleman she once was married to, like Sarah Ferguson, like Raine McCorquodale. A practice which is completely weird to me: you want to break the marriage, you want to divorce but hey... you want to keep your former husband's title and surname?

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  #100  
Old 07-29-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
She is not Prinzessin zu Leiningen as a title, she only wants to be referred to a title which belongs to a gentleman she once was married to, like Sarah Ferguson, like Raine McCorquodale. A practice which is completely weird to me: you want to break the marriage, you want to divorce but hey... you want to keep your former husband's title and surname?

From where I'm sitting here in the US and from experience, it is usually the case in a divorce that a woman still retains her married surname. It is, however, becoming more and more an option to request via the divorce decree to have a woman's maiden name legally restored. Many women now also choose to not change their maiden surname to their husband's upon marriage.
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