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  #41  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Well then pretty much everyone in England is royal since most of us seem to have a monarch somewhere in our lineage. 30% of us descend from Edward III and a rather large number descend from Charles II since he took his role as father of the nation rather seriously
I admire his diligence and dedication. That's as close as I can get to a "harmless joke" on this rather sad day. Thanks in any case, for making me smile.
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  #42  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ldmemail View Post
I think by definition, one is either royal or not. If one divorces from a royal partner then one could be classed as an ex-royal. Of course I agree that there would have had to have been a crown somewhere in the past, but one's heritage is part of one's makeup and so one never loses it.
My grandmother would always proudly point out that her grandfather was a German baron. However, he emigrated to the US after the Prussian wars.
I would not consider even his son royal or noble, just that we have an interesting ancestor.

But there is still some meaning for native culture in the Hawaiian royals. I am also part Hawaiian, though no ali'i (royal) blood that I know about.
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  #43  
Old 07-31-2013, 03:37 PM
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This might not be strictly on topic, but a question from some of the discussion...

I understand the former royal family from Greece is related to the Danish monarchy and carry those royal titles, but also use their Greek titles. Pavlos is still referred to as Crown Prince, which would imply he is the heir to a throne. So, if King Constantine passes, will Crown Prince Pavlos style himself "King" even though no such throne exists any longer or will he remain a prince and the presumptive heir should Greece bring back the monarchy?

I don't mean to stir up conflict over legitimacy, but wondered how that worked. Thank you!
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  #44  
Old 07-31-2013, 04:01 PM
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^^^
As a general rule the heirs do not use their fathers "Kingly" titles. They continue with their own titles and become heads of their families.
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:35 PM
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The whole concept of the "blood royal" is really what this is based on. when the royals and nobility marry commoners, the royal bloodline is diminished. This is a good thing, as it begins to correct the genetic hazards.

I wonder what goes on behind the scenes in picking mates among these people, who are probably educated about modern science and the genetic hazards of marrying a close relative. In some cases, where marrying equally is still required in order to keep a title, the person must really look hard, under every rock as it were, to see if his prospective spouse is not only equal but also healthy. Probably geneticists are even employed to look hard.
When the present Prince of Prussia had to marry equally, he must have looked hard, and when I see him and his wife together I always see on their faces the look of "I made it!" Fortunately their twin sons no longer have to marry equally.

There IS a mystique of royal blood.

In addition, to me, a royal person, or noble person, earns his or her title by good behavior and cultured education and manners. Some ex-royals behave badly in several different categories, and to me they have forfeited pretension to being royal. The more categories they flub up on, the less royal they become. Finally they are just rich pretentious ignoramuses, if this goes far enough
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  #46  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:03 AM
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In Germany, old defunct titles can be incorporated into the surname..like

Frédéric Prinz von Anhalt (formerly known as Hans Robert Lichtenberg) (husband of Zsa Zsa Gabor) and (adopted adult son (for money consideration) of Princess Marie Auguste of Anhalt)...

BUT it is laughable to call him HRH PRINCE OF ANHALT

Ernst August Prinz von Hannover should also NOT be called HRH PRINCE OF HANNOVER

-----------------------------------------------------------
however, proper ex-Royals (who actually reigned as monarch), such as

Tsar Simeon II of Bulgaria (reigning 1943-46) and still living,

King Michael I of Romania (reigning 1927-30 and 1940-47) and still living

King Constantine II of Greece (reigning 1964-1973) and still living

should still, by courtesy, be titled royals for their lifetimes
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  #47  
Old 10-29-2013, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaatje View Post
This might not be strictly on topic, but a question from some of the discussion... I understand the former royal family from Greece is related to the Danish monarchy and carry those royal titles, but also use their Greek titles. Pavlos is still referred to as Crown Prince, which would imply he is the heir to a throne. So, if King Constantine passes, will Crown Prince Pavlos style himself "King" even though no such throne exists any longer or will he remain a prince and the presumptive heir should Greece bring back the monarchy? I don't mean to stir up conflict over legitimacy, but wondered how that worked. Thank you!
The same question could be asked of the Serbian royal house. The Hereditary Prince will one day succeed his father the Crown Prince -Aleksander II chose not to use the title, and remained Crown Prince, so what happens to Petar when he becomes head of the house? He is see as heir/ crown prince, but will he use that title or will he simply remain the Hereditary Prince?
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  #48  
Old 10-29-2013, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by USCtrojan View Post
The same question could be asked of the Serbian royal house. The Hereditary Prince will one day succeed his father the Crown Prince -Aleksander II chose not to use the title, and remained Crown Prince, so what happens to Petar when he becomes head of the house? He is see as heir/ crown prince, but will he use that title or will he simply remain the Hereditary Prince?
I think your answer would be seen if you llook at the german kings. you had King Ludwig of Bavaria but when he died his eldest son kept the title Crown Prince rather than take on the title of King. When Rupprecht died his son Albrecht simply remained as Duke Albrecht. The Hanoverians were the same when they were dethroned. King George V, Crown prince Ernst August, Prince Ernst August. Basically they just kept the titles they already held. Unless by some chance Serbia, Greece or even Roumania are reinstated, the titles will eventually just be Prince Peter of Serbia etc.
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  #49  
Old 10-29-2013, 05:03 AM
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When Emperor Pedro II of Brazil died in 1891 (two years after the overthrown of the Brazilian Monarchy by a military coup d'état), his daughter and heiress, Princess Isabel, who was The Princess Imperial of Brazil (title used by the heir(ess) of the Brazilian Throne), titled herself as The Head of the Imperial House of Brazil (although the Monarchist Directory in Rio de Janeiro acclaimed her as Constitutional Empress and Perpetual Defender of Brazil.

Princess Isabel's eldest son, Prince Pedro de Alcântara, who since his birth in 1875 used the title of Prince of Grão-Pará (title used by the firstborn and heir(ess) of The Prince(ss) Imperial) then became The Prince Imperial.

Since then, the first in the Line of Succession to the Brazilian Throne uses the title of Head of the Imperial House of Brazil, while the second in Line uses the title of Prince(ss) Imperial.

Currently, The Head of the Imperial House is Prince Luiz of Brazil, and The Prince Imperial is his younger brother, Prince Bertrand of Brazil.

In Portugal, I think Head of the House will always use the title of Duke (or Duchess) of Braganza, while his (her) heir will use the title of Prince(ss) of Beira.
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  #50  
Old 10-29-2013, 10:40 AM
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I think your answer would be seen if you llook at the german kings. you had King Ludwig of Bavaria but when he died his eldest son kept the title Crown Prince rather than take on the title of King. When Rupprecht died his son Albrecht simply remained as Duke Albrecht. The Hanoverians were the same when they were dethroned. King George V, Crown prince Ernst August, Prince Ernst August. Basically they just kept the titles they already held. Unless by some chance Serbia, Greece or even Roumania are reinstated, the titles will eventually just be Prince Peter of Serbia etc.
It's only in some of the Princely Families where the Heir also used the Title Fürst after the death of is father. This is the case in the Houses Schaumburg-Lippe, Waldeck-Pyrmont and Reuß but not in the House of Lippe.
In Bavaria Albrecht was Prince and would have remained so after the death of his father but he opted to use the Title Duke of Bavaria for the Head of the House. Also in Saxony after the death of King Friedrich August III. his second son became Head of the House as the former Crown Prince Georg had renounced his rigths. he choose the use the Title Margrave of Meißen as head of the House which was also done by his son. And in Baden the head of the House is now the Margrave of Baden.
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  #51  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
It's only in some of the Princely Families where the Heir also used the Title Fürst after the death of is father. This is the case in the Houses Schaumburg-Lippe, Waldeck-Pyrmont and Reuß but not in the House of Lippe.
In Bavaria Albrecht was Prince and would have remained so after the death of his father but he opted to use the Title Duke of Bavaria for the Head of the House. Also in Saxony after the death of King Friedrich August III. his second son became Head of the House as the former Crown Prince Georg had renounced his rigths. he choose the use the Title Margrave of Meißen as head of the House which was also done by his son. And in Baden the head of the House is now the Margrave of Baden.
And the interesting thing is that the Duke/Margrave titles were their original titles before they were upgraded to King etc
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