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  #201  
Old 08-05-2014, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
In the US, the President is the Head of State and head of one of 3 branches of the govt. The concern with the non national born person is that they would somehow favor their home country over their new country. The same sort of thing was brought up with JFK being Catholic that he would do what the Pope wanted him to do instead of what was best for the country.

The whole thing with the Obama birth certificate is funny because John McCain was the candidate born outside the US in the Panama Canal zone while his father was serving in the navy.


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You are right. But John McCain was born in Panama, to American parents, so , really not a question. Mr. Obama's father was a foreign national, but, Mr. Obama was born in the United States, Hawaii, his mother was born in the United States, his mother's parents were born in the United States and the whole thing is silly Brought on by right wing to try and disclaim his presidency, probably, because he was black or, really, half black. His mother and her family were white. A silly argument. JFK was the not first Catholic to run for the presidency, but the first to win. Al Smith, Governor of New York, ran for the presidency in 1928, but was defeated. More likely because he was a Catholic.

Americans will never want a foreign head of state. Cepe, Arnold Schartzenegger could be anything but president. I don't know if it is waste of talent, by first generation that is gone.
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  #202  
Old 08-05-2014, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think everyone and their great-grandmother knew President Obama was born in America but it was the far right that decided to mess with him and have him present proof again and again that he's American born. It all boiled down to race, IMO.

If America decided to install a Monarchy, most likely they would want a person born in this country to be it's head of state.
There is absolutely no basis for asserting that claims about Obama have anything to do with race.

Over 25% of Democrats think or thought that he was foreign-born or don't know (55% Of Republicans Believe Obama Was Born In A Foreign Country?). By your statement, you're calling Democrats racist, too. Are you?

Even 1 Democrat in 15 thinks that Obama is the Antichrist (yet many of them voted for him anyway) (One in four Americans think Obama may be the antichrist, survey says | World news | theguardian.com).

So knock off the racial divisiveness. This is a thread about royalty.
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  #203  
Old 08-05-2014, 08:40 PM
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Thank you CSENYC! I could care less if the man was purple with pink polka dots. I only care about his agenda and his abilities etc.

I live in a very conservative white bread region of the U.S. I have yet to hear anyone say that they care about his race...they will rant and rave and hate his policies but nothing is said about his race except when those who lean left state we must disagree with him because he is black...that is when the people here get ticked off. It's absolutely not true and it's insulting.


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  #204  
Old 08-05-2014, 09:00 PM
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It would make more sense if the naturalized citizen ban had an age limit. Jennifer Granholm was governor of Michigan. She was born in Canada but moved to California at age 4. She is probably not going even remember living in Canada. But changing the Constitution is a not very easy so it won't be changed nor will the US get a monarchy anytime soon.


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  #205  
Old 08-05-2014, 10:23 PM
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  #206  
Old 02-03-2015, 08:12 PM
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What if after the American revolution, the citizens of the new country decided to have a monarchy (this didn't happen and never would happen but let's just say that the majority of American decided that they wanted this. Here what I think it might look liked.

The royal family would be democratically elected and their duties would be spelled out in the constitution. They wouldn't be head of government but more of a ceremonial function.

The head of the family would be elected by the American family. If the Congress or the American people didn't think they were doing a good job or felt like they weren't representing the US in a positive way, they would have the right to depose the head of the family and replace them with someone else.

A royal family in the South during the civil war would never be as those in the South don't like to be told what to do especially if it's something that they are opposed to (they wouldn't be in favor of an American royal family) I'm not getting into the politics of this just that royals are used to telling people what to do and expecting them to do what they say would be difficult in the Southern States.
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  #207  
Old 02-03-2015, 08:49 PM
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I can think of only one royal household that would be acceptable in the South. Of course this royal family and nation wouldn't be traditional royalty. It would be very different from any royal household in Europe or anywhere else. Uniquely American. I doubt that this would be accepted as royal from European or any other royal household as most of these individuals in it were just average regular people.

NASCAR and Charlotte North Carolina being the Nations Capital of the NASCAR nation as North Carolina is where it's roots began. Daytona Beach International Speedway was where the first races would were run, so this be the capital in the Southern Region of the Nation. In the Mid-West Chicago or the Chicago Speedway would be the capital in the Mid-West, In the West Sonoma Raceway in California would be the capital and Watkins Glens in Watkins Glen in the East would round out the capitals.

A NASCAR fan is part of the NASCAR nation which covers the entire US. We would be the subjects (the nation) and attending races and supporting NASCAR would be our duties. This nation is conservative, very patriotic and religious (bordering a bit on quasi-Christianity) but at the same time has moderation which contradicts this(very strange mix). I will omit the politics here but you get the general idea.

Well, you need someone to rule the NASCAR nation so you have NASCAR royalty. The France family would rule over the nation as they started it and the NASCAR drivers would be the Prince and Princess of this nation. Some like Richard Petty, the Earnhardts, Jimmy Johnson and Jeff Gordon would be in the highest rungs of this dynasty. Getting into this royalty would require hard work and one does not have to be wealthy to get into this royalty as these individuals were not wealthy prior to racing.
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  #208  
Old 03-05-2015, 03:29 PM
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Finland was on its was way to become a monarchy in 1917 when it gained its independence from Russia. If they had chosen someone else than a German prince to be their monarch maybe Finland could be a monarchy today. Prince Wilhelm of Sweden could have been a candidate, but his wife was a Russian princess and she may not have been a popular queen. Two other alternative could be prince Carl, duke of Västergötland and his wife Ingeborg, or Ingeborg's brother prince Harald of Denmark and his wife Helena. Both Carl and Harald had several young children in 1917. A constitutional monarchy in the same way as in Sweden and Denmark would have been a good choice, the monarch and his/her family as a figurehead. As Finland was one of the first countries with female suffrage in 1906, they could perhaps have chosen to have male-preference cognatic primogeniture instead of the agnatic primogeniture as it was in Sweden and Denmark at the time.
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  #209  
Old 03-05-2015, 03:38 PM
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I see... But I wonder if creating a new monarchy wouldn't have been an odd choice already back in 1917 (even if the old monarchies of Germany, Austria och Russia still would be around for another year). For example, I seem to remember that the Norwegians seriously considered founding a republic instead back in 1905.

Wilhelm and Maria would have been a nice choice as king and queen of Finland though, as they could have represented the Swedish and Russian parts of the country's history. Then again, I believe that Maria had already left Wilhelm and returned to Russia by then...
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  #210  
Old 03-05-2015, 04:05 PM
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Yes, I forgot that Vilhelm and Maria was divorced by 1917.

As for the plans to make Finland a monarchy in 1918, the plans had gone far and there were even a design for a crown for the future monarch of Finland, so it's very possible that if Germany hadn't lost the war in 1918 Finland would have become a monarcy: Kingdom of Finland (1918) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There were also other short-lived monarchies in 1918, for example Lithuania.
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  #211  
Old 03-05-2015, 06:32 PM
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Ah... I had no idea that the plans for a Finnish monarchy had come that far, or even that Lithuania had a brief monarchy. But I guess you can learn something new every day.
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  #212  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:29 PM
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This is a bit off tropic, but if anyone is interested in reading alternate historical fiction, I can recommend "The Shadow of the Lion" one of the major characters is Manfred of Brittany, a heir to the Holy Roman Empire. The book is set in the 1530ies in Venice.
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  #213  
Old 08-04-2015, 10:15 PM
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The only way a NEW (not a restoration) monarchy could possibly be created would be after a very devastating civil war where the leader of the winning side would become King. Even then, most would choose to be dictators or run for president after establishing a republic. Anyone declaring themselves "King" would have to be a very wise and just man, and not a nut case like Emperor Bokassa. Furthermore most Western nations would oppose the creation of a new kingdom.
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  #214  
Old 08-05-2015, 08:37 AM
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I can't see noew monarchies being formed nowadays... I just believe only the old and already weel-established ones are going to survive...
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  #215  
Old 09-19-2015, 04:18 PM
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The monarchy is the only true way to govern,democracy is a fantasy,who where Washington,and the others to separate from the crown,they where not kings,it is not valid if you study it carefully,
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  #216  
Old 09-19-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by augeron lafourche View Post
The monarchy is the only true way to govern, democracy is a fantasy, who were Washington, and the others to separate from the crown, they were not kings, it is not valid if you study it carefully,
Interesting point of view. Never heard that democracy is not 'valid'. Interesting.

Fact is, the Founding Fathers of the US debated long and hard about instituting a monarchy. One of them, Alexander Hamilton, waxed eloquently for hours on the subject (he was in favor).

But outside an elected monarchy (which is just a matter of semantics), an inherited monarchy is riddled with problems and totally out-of-step with modern sensibilities. JMO.
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  #217  
Old 09-19-2015, 05:34 PM
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To separate from the monarchy is nor valid,democracy is a nice dream show us where it works,
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  #218  
Old 09-19-2015, 06:49 PM
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A king or queen rules by divine right,democracy,too many chiefs not enough Indians,as the saying goes,look at the USA,another point is Luther,he had no right to establish his own church the true church is the Roman catholic church,and the Pope is infallible,in all ways,
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  #219  
Old 09-19-2015, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augeron lafourche View Post
To separate from the monarchy is nor valid,democracy is a nice dream show us where it works,
Quote:
Originally Posted by augeron lafourche View Post
A king or queen rules by divine right,democracy,too many chiefs not enough Indians,as the saying goes,look at the USA,another point is Luther,he had no right to establish his own church the true church is the Roman catholic church,and the Pope is infallible,in all ways,
This is a huge thread-nap. However, I will say, in regards the bolded text above, I do believe the current Pope, being a good Jesuit, would disagree with your categoric statement on several points.
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  #220  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Interesting point of view. Never heard that democracy is not 'valid'. Interesting.

Fact is, the Founding Fathers of the US debated long and hard about instituting a monarchy. One of them, Alexander Hamilton, waxed eloquently for hours on the subject (he was in favor).

But outside an elected monarchy (which is just a matter of semantics), an inherited monarchy is riddled with problems and totally out-of-step with modern sensibilities. JMO.
The idea that the Head of State of a country should always be the firstborn son or daughter of a given family may sound outdated or even absurd in the 21st century. However, the fact that the monarch owes his/her position solely to an accident of birth and has no democratic legitimacy at all is paradoxically what forces the kings or queens in the modern European monarchies to withdraw completely from any active executive role leaving all responsibility for government decisions to the prime minister and the cabinet, who in turn are responsible to an elected parliament and, through parliament, ultimately responsible to the people.

By contrast, in parliamentary republics, especially when the president (i.e. the Head of State) is directly elected by the people, he/she ends up being most often partisan and, because the president has a democratic legitimacy of his/her own, he/she is far more likely to clash with the prime minister, particularly when the president and the prime minister belong to different political parties. I tend to think then that constitutional monarchies in the European style are better suited for parliamentary government as they provide a clearer and unambiguous separation between the ceremonial and non-partisan role of the Head of State (played by the monarch) and the partisan executive government led by the prime minister.

Changing subjects, I obviously disagree with the original poster's opinion on the "validity" of democracy. He has a point though about the American revolution, which is in a way legally valid. Since the 13 colonies were under the sovereignty of the British crown, the unilateral declaration of independence issued on July 4, 1776 without the consent of the British parliament was unlawful. US independence only became lawful when, following the Revolutionary War, the United Kingdom, as the former sovereign of the colonies, officially recognized their independence in the Treaty of Paris of 1783, relinquishing for the British crown and all its heirs and successors any " claims to the Government, property, and territorial rights of the same, and every part thereof".
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