The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #241  
Old 08-20-2015, 02:34 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Detroit, United States
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
From the top of my head: Emperor Meiji, the great-grandfather of the current Emperor Akihito, was the offspring of a concubine.

best wishes Michiru

Meiji's successor, Emperor Taisho, was also born to a concubine. Taisho was the last Japanese emperor to be born to a concubine.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 08-30-2015, 11:23 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
The difference in Japan is that should the situation arise they'd probably pick a male member of the quite numerous formerly imperial family branches that was demoted from their status after WWII. Apparently many of them still bear a grudge and consider themselves royal.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
Actually illegitimate children do have succession rights in Japan. Legitimate sons have precedence over illegitimate (even when older) sons, but an illegitimate son of the Emperor would (should he not have legitimate male children) take precedence over a legitimate brother of the Emperor. In fact, a couple of years ago one of the late Mikasa sons suggested Crown Prince Naruhito should take a concubine to produce an heir.

best wishes Michiru
Under the current Imperial House Law, which entered into force in 1947, only legitimate male-line offspring of an emperor may be members of the imperial family, and only male members of the imperial family may succeed to the imperial throne.

Prince Tomohito's "concubine" suggestion in 2005, if it had been taken seriously, would have meant repealing the legal ban on polygamy in Japan. But reinstating polygamy was never seriously considered. Before Prince Hisahito's mother announced her pregnancy in 2006, the Japanese government planned to amend the Imperial House Law to allow the emperor's firstborn (legitimate) child to succeed, regardless of gender. Reinstating former imperial family branches was considered, but rejected.

The feelings of the former imperial branch members are unknown because all but one of them agreed to keep their views on imperial succession issues to themselves.

The Imperial House Law - The Imperial Household Agency

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...sues-4108.html
Imperial Family of Japan: Current Events July 2005 - May 2008
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 09-05-2016, 12:53 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
While an official mistress may be better than a regular mistress, and the children born to an official one may be held higher than the children born to just any old mistress, the fact remains that in Europe, the children of a mistress were not as high as the children of a wife, nor was the mistress comparable to the wife. The children of an official mistress in Europe might be given titles and good marriages and belong to the nobility, but they didn't have succession rights.
e.
Exactly. In some cases Louis XV as I recall legitimised some of his illegitimate childrene but that just gave them a slightly higher status and problaby was done to gvie them better marraige chances. It didn't mean they were in the succession. Mistresses had no rights, Concubines and their children do.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 09-05-2016, 04:30 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,766
In the Netherlands royal succession for persons born outside the royal marriage is impossible. This because a dynast needs to be born in a marriage which has been approved by an Act of Consent. To put it stronger: a royal person engaging into marriage without an Act of Consent looses his/her very own succession rights.

Article 28 of the Constitution

28.1
The King, engaging into marriage without an Act of Consent, abdicates the kingship.

28.2
When a successor engages in a marriage without an Act of Consent, he and the children born from said marriage as well their descendants are excluded from the hereditary succession.


Article 28.2 applied on the following persons who did not request for an Act of Consent:
HH Prince Floris van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven x Aimée Söhngen (2005)
HH Prince Pieter-Christiaan van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven x Anita van Eijk (2005)
HRH Prince Friso of the Netherlands x Mabel Wisse Smit (2004)
HRH Princess Christina of the Netherlands x Jorge Pérez Guillermo (1975)
HRH Princess Irene of the Netherlands x HRH Prince Carlos Hugo de Bourbon de Parme (1964)
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 09-05-2016, 10:25 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 2,802
Prince William, Duke of Clarence and Dorothea Jordan had five sons and five daughters. Nine of the children were named after William's brothers and sisters.
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 09-12-2016, 02:11 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 443
Many illegitimate sons became monarchs in medieval Europe, most often when their father did not have any legitimate male heirs.

Succession in the medieval Kingdom of Norway
The Royal House of Norway - The unification of Norway

Quote:
In the Middle Ages the Kingdom of Norway was a hereditary electoral monarchy – in other words, the monarchy was based on a combination of inheritance and electoral consent. All the king’s sons, legitimate and illegitimate alike, inherited an equal right to the throne and could bring their claim before the assembly. Those present at the assembly would decide whether to elect the son who sought the throne. Acceptance by the assembly – the people’s consent – gave legitimacy to the authority of the king.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:13 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 7
Hypothetically if Kate had gotten pregnant before she and William got married, would they have married ASAP in order to avoid an illegitimate child
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:37 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 8,452
I really don't have the answer to this but I would imagine that a legitimate child is determined at the time of birth and not conception. Legally, even if conceived before the marriage, the child would have been born to legally wed parents.

At least that's my take on it.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:18 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 4,491
That's not happened in some decades although there are rumors about the generation prior to the Queen...supposedly David had at least one 'love child'.

Previously they didn't marry the woman because she *usually* wasn't in the right class for them to marry even if they had wanted to.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:19 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujubes View Post
Hypothetically if Kate had gotten pregnant before she and William got married, would they have married ASAP in order to avoid an illegitimate child
I think they would have. It would make a big scandal if Kate gave birth to Will's child out of wedlock.
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:26 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,454
Let's stay on topic..we don't need to speculate what would have happened if Kate had a child with William before marriage. The fact is, she didn't.

We can certainly discuss the succession rights for illegitimate children....say if Harry had a child before marriage but Harry hasn't married anyone yet.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:38 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,793
The rules are very clear:

A child born out of wedlock has no succession rights.

A child born the day after the parents marry is legitimate, born within wedlock and so has succession rights.

If a couple finds out they are expecting before marriage and they have things like titles riding on the child they may very well marry so that the child is able to inherit. These days, with the aristocracy, they may even go so far as to find out whether it is a boy or a girl as boys can inherit titles but not girls (throne excepted) so if it was a girl they may not worry about getting married until after the child is born while if it is a boy they may very well hurry to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:48 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 47
It's funny how Henry VIII, Charles II, etc had many illegitimate children without much consequence, but if it happened today it would cause a scandal.
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:52 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,793
But they didn't try to have those children acknowledged as the heirs to the throne. No one would really care if William or Harry had an illegitimate child unless they wanted that child to succeed as it opens a whole can of worms.

William IV also had a number of children before he married Adelaide (David Cameron, former PM, was a descendant of one of those children) and there are rumours about illegitimate children for Edward VII and Edward VIII.
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:27 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,770
Zara Tindall summed it up in an interview for a prog for PRincess Royals 60th birthday.

2 rules: No tattoos; no pregnancies before marriage.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:33 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I really don't have the answer to this but I would imagine that a legitimate child is determined at the time of birth and not conception. Legally, even if conceived before the marriage, the child would have been born to legally wed parents.



At least that's my take on it.


A child is considered legitimate if they are born after their parents wed, regardless of whether or not they were conceived before or after the wedding. There was a time when conceiving before the wedding would have been scandalous, so you see weddings having taken place very quickly followed by "premature" babies who weren't exactly small.

How scandalous a baby born out of wedlock to a couple that married after the birth was would have depended on the class, period, and overall circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 04-18-2017, 10:30 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 4,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
But they didn't try to have those children acknowledged as the heirs to the throne. No one would really care if William or Harry had an illegitimate child unless they wanted that child to succeed as it opens a whole can of worms.

William IV also had a number of children before he married Adelaide (David Cameron, former PM, was a descendant of one of those children) and there are rumours about illegitimate children for Edward VII and Edward VIII.
Henry VIII toyed with the idea and I think would of pushed it further had his natural son not died so young.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 04-18-2017, 11:46 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,793
The only acknowledged 'natural son' of Henry VIII I can find is Henry Fitzroy who died in July 1536 two months after he had married Jane Seymour by whom he still hoped for a legitimate son - which he did get.

He already had two daughters and one was undoubtedly legitimate - Mary.

I think he may have considered trying to name Henry as his heir if he didn't have a son and if he believed the country wanted it but the evidence is that by the time Henry died Henry VIII was still very hopeful of a son and the country were quite supportive of Mary as his heir anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 04-19-2017, 01:31 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,694
Henry VIII would only have considered it because he had no option.. as he didn't want his daughters to inherit. occasionaly royals have had their children legitimated to give them status, or very occasionally (In Monaco) an illegitimate child has inherited the throne.. because there were no legitimate heirs. but it is rare. its not supposed to happen
Reply With Quote
  #260  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:36 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 3,859
Until Mary, there wasn't a crowned Queen Regent before so you had to have a boy because the girls were ignored succession wise. Once it's ok for descendants of a female to inherit the throne and woman themselves, you don't run out of heirs. Even when the Tudors ran out, then the crown jumps to the Stuarts via a female Tudor.

Also there isn't the strict morality of later times, rich men had mistresses and protection wasn't as easy as it was back then. It was okay for the guy to screw around just the not royal wife.

It would still be scandalous today if a prominent British royal pulled a Prince Albert of Monaco especially if it was some sort of one night stand. How much money would be spent try to keep the baby mama drama from being in the press all the time? Mum holding the sad looking little kid on the front of the DM wondering why Daddy lives in a palace but child doesn't. Stuff like that. It would be tabloid gold.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, questions, royal, title, titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince Bernhard Sr.'s Illegitimate Children Australian Dutch Royals 91 08-20-2016 08:09 PM
June 2008 Newsletter: The illegitimate children of royals Lady Jennifer Picture of the Month, Special Features, Blogs and Articles 6 06-01-2008 09:02 PM




Popular Tags
albania autographs beatrice borromeo best gown september 2016 best outfit birthday birthday celebration crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion denmark duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall duke of cambridge fashion poll fashion suggestions queen maxima jewels king abdullah ii king carl gustaf and queen silvia king philip king willem-alexander margherita monarchy murder new zealand norway november november 2016 october 2016 palaces picture of the week prince carl philip prince charles prince harry prince of wales princess margriet princess marie fashion princess marie style princess mary princess mary fashion princess sofia princess sofia eveningwear queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia cocktail dresses queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia eveningwear queen letizia fashion queen letizia suits queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen mathilde fashion queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania fashion queen rania in new york 2016 september 2016 state visit succession sweden the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats uae wildlife


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises