Should Names Be Anglicized?


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I see. It's fashion. We have the same tendency now.
The problem is that you must know how to pronounce name (for example, English Charles or French Charles).
So people read and pronounce names as they want.
Courau is good example ;)
 
In Italy we have quite the same trend as in Spain; translated name for some royals and non translated names for others.
Some examples:
I've always known Queen Elizabeth as Regina Elisabetta, and all the BRF so: Charles-Carlo, Andrew-Andrea, ect. the only names left out from the translation were William (it would be Guglielmo) and Harry. Now media use Kate for the Duchess of Cambridge.
They never translated the names of the Spanish Royal Family, but they did with the others (when it was possible). I don't know why they had and still have different use of the names...
 
All names with an English equivalent should be translated. All diacritics from names should be removed.

Spanish Juan Pedro López should be called John Peter Lopez in English, regardless of what he wants, same with German Heinrich Friedrich Nonnenmacher (Henry Frederick Nunemaker) and Dutch Johan Hendrik Krankheyt (John Frederick Cronkite)

For the same reason I am Robertus Devinius Martnenius in Latin and Roberto Devin Martnen in Spanish. (My full name is Robert Devin Martnen)
In Spanish, my middle name would be pronounced day-VEEN, even though I pronounce it DEV-in.

It just looks and sounds better to use English versions of names in English. The same rule applies to all languages.

More Examples
French: Pierre Jean Gagné -> Peter John Gonyea
Irish: Damháin Pádraig Caomhánach -> Devin Patrick Cavanaugh
 
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All names with an English equivalent should be translated. All diacritics from names should be removed.

Spanish Juan Pedro López should be called John Peter Lopez in English, regardless of what he wants, same with German Heinrich Friedrich Nonnenmacher (Henry Frederick Nunemaker) and Dutch Johan Hendrik Krankheyt (John Frederick Cronkite)

For the same reason I am Robertus Devinius Martnenius in Latin and Roberto Devin Martnen in Spanish. (My full name is Robert Devin Martnen)
In Spanish, my middle name would be pronounced day-VEEN, even though I pronounce it DEV-in.

It just looks and sounds better to use English versions of names in English. The same rule applies to all languages.

More Examples
French: Pierre Jean Gagné -> Peter John Gonyea
Irish: Damháin Pádraig Caomhánach -> Devin Patrick Cavanaugh

:lol:

How about little Eleanor of all the Saints of Bourbon? Now that's something you don't hear every day.
 
I tend to not anglicise personal names as, in many cases, I don't see the point. Besides, context usually helps clear up any uncertainties. King John Charles sounds artificial and pedantic to my way of thinking. But, to be contrary, I much prefer Pope Francis to Pope Franciscus. In general, there are too many variables to make mandatory anglicisation workable. What is an "English equivalent", and when does a "foreign" name become an English name in its own right? Should Princess Blanche of France really be called Blank, White or Pure? It also seems a bit random that the King of Sweden has to make do with Charles XVI Gustavus while the King of Thailand gets to keep Bhumibol Adulyadej. What about King Norodom Sihamoni of Cambodia? Sihamoni is a combination of his parents' names; Sihanouk and Monineath, but Monineath is the Cambodian transliteration of Monique. Should the King be called Sihamonica instead?

To take anglicisation to its logical conclusion I think it would be necessary to translate a name when there is no "English equivalent". That means the late Emperor Showa of Japan should be called Emperor Enlightened Peace. The Grand Dowager Empress Cixi of the Great Qin Empire should be Grand Dowager Empress Kindly and Virtuous of China. But what would be the point?

When it comes to titles, however, I prefer the English equivalent. So i would go for Emperor Karl of Austria instead of Emperor Charles or Kaiser Karl. I dislike seeing Russian rulers called Tsar in English as the correct title, since 1721 was Император, Emperor (but to be contrary again, I would call the last Emperor Nicholas II rather than Nikolai II). If we use Kaiser in English perhaps we should also use Tenno and Huángdì for the Emperors of Japan and China, or should it be Heavenly Sovereign for both?

In general,I just try to be consistent with my inconsistencies, add some context when in doubt, and hope for the best.
 
In the past when there was relatively little communication between "the common public" in countries, foreign names would be translated to the local version.
In the Netherlands (where i come from) that meant we knew people as
Karel de Grote (Charlemagne)
Lodewijk XIV (Louis, the sun-king)
Karel II (Charles II)
these historical figures are still known here by their dutch names

Nowadays i find it mainly confusing when foreign names are "dutchicised", like the current Kings of Spain and Belgium; they would both be Filip.
For me it would make more sense to use the name they use themselves especially on an international forum like this. So the dutch king will be "Willem-Alexander" and not William-Alexander, and Camilla's husband is Charles and not Karel ;)
 
In the 1960's the husband of Princess Irene was still "Dutch-ized" into Prins Karel-Hugo van Bourbon-Parma. His children however, all got Spanish names: Carlos, Margarita, Jaime and Carolina. These were not translated into Karel, Margriet, Jakob and Karlijn. Somewhere in the 1960's the Dutch media ended the translation of names. When the Bourbon-Parmas were incorporated into Luxembourgian and Dutch nobility, the French surname was used in both countries: de Bourbon de Parme. This was analogue with the style which was used by -for an example- Empress Zita: before her marriage she signed as Zita de Bourbon, Princesse de Parme.
 
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I don't know if this one suits the thread, anyway I strongly disagree that the original names should turned into a foreign form... I get very irritated, for example, every time I see that "Henri" of Denmark was changed into "Henrik"... Personally, I would refuse to change my name because to me it is like reject my identity...
 
..and former dutch queen Beatrix and her husband Claus would have been Q.Beatrice and P.Nicolas ;)
 
It seems an outrageously arrogant and presumptuous idea to me... Every language is as valid as the next imo..
 
It is not necessary to anglicize the names. However, if an article is written about Friedrich Wilhelm II of Prussia, is it not wise to leave his name as Friedrich Wilhelm II if you quote a sentence?
 
It seems an outrageously arrogant and presumptuous idea to me... Every language is as valid as the next imo..
I agree and I also believe that it should be pronounced correctly and not anglicised, dutchetised, etc. When Prince Edward and Prince William married, it was a pleasure to hear them both pronounce the name Louis correctly. As to Prince Henrik? I believe his wife calls him Henri in private as French was the language spoken in the home.

If I am introduced to someone with a foreign name and don't quite catch it, it is a great ice-breaker to ask how to pronounce it properly. I cringe when someone immediately "anglicises" a person name, it is rude and implies they are somehow not quite up to scratch.
 
I find it weird that royalty get their names anglicized more of then than not but generally politicians do not.
 
That's simple: no name should be translated unless it's translated to a language with different writing system/script.
 
All names with an English equivalent should be translated. All diacritics from names should be removed.

Spanish Juan Pedro López should be called John Peter Lopez in English, regardless of what he wants, same with German Heinrich Friedrich Nonnenmacher (Henry Frederick Nunemaker) and Dutch Johan Hendrik Krankheyt (John Frederick Cronkite)

For the same reason I am Robertus Devinius Martnenius in Latin and Roberto Devin Martnen in Spanish. (My full name is Robert Devin Martnen)
In Spanish, my middle name would be pronounced day-VEEN, even though I pronounce it DEV-in.

It just looks and sounds better to use English versions of names in English. The same rule applies to all languages.

More Examples
French: Pierre Jean Gagné -> Peter John Gonyea
Irish: Damháin Pádraig Caomhánach -> Devin Patrick Cavanaugh


The presumptuousness of some English speakers always astounds me :bang:

Why should a Spanish speaking person use an English translation to their name? They are Spanish. They speak Spanish. Their name is Spanish.

Or even if they are raised in an English speaking country, they should be referred to as by the name they are given at birth. Unless THEY choose to be referred by a different form.

You suggest we have:

King Philip of Spain and his daughters Eleanor All Saints and Sophia all saints
King Philip and Queen Maude of Belgium with heir Elizabeth
Queen Margaret and Prince Henry of Denmark, with grandchildren Nicholas, Henry, Elizabeth (Isabella)
GD Henry and Mary Theresa of Luxembourg with their children William, Lewis, and granddaughter Amelia
King Charles Gustav and Queen Sylvia with son Charles Philip, daughter Madelyn/Magdalene, grandchildren Eleanor, Nicholas,
King Harold and Queen Sonya
King William-Alexander and heir Catherine-Amelia
 
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The presumptuousness of some English speakers always astounds me :bang:

Why should a Spanish speaking person use an English translation to their name? They are Spanish. They speak Spanish. Their name is Spanish.

Or even if they are raised in an English speaking country, they should be referred to as by the name they are given at birth. Unless THEY choose to be referred by a different form.

You suggest we have:

King Philip of Spain and his daughters Eleanor All Saints and Sophia all saints
King Philip and Queen Maude of Belgium with heir Elizabeth
Queen Margaret and Prince Henry of Denmark, with grandchildren Nicholas, Henry, Elizabeth (Isabella)
GD Henry and Mary Theresa of Luxembourg with their children William, Lewis, and granddaughter Amelia
King Charles Gustav and Queen Sylvia with son Charles Philip, daughter Madelyn/Magdalene, grandchildren Eleanor, Nicholas,
King Harald and Queen Sonya
King William-Alexander and heir Catherine-Amelia

Remind me that my teacher once said just don't translate any word/phrase begins with a capital, it has a capital with reason (even though sometimes it's not accurate:D).

btw surprised that Harald doesn't have Anglicized form:eek:
 
Remind me that my teacher once said just don't translate any word/phrase begins with a capital, it has a capital with reason (even though sometimes it's not accurate:D).

btw surprised that Harald doesn't have Anglicized form:eek:

It does, its Harold. I thought I typed Harold, seems I had a brain fart. Corrected it :flowers:
 
I believe that names do not have to be anglisized.
I know that Marie Feodorovna and Maria Feodorovna refers to the same Dowager Empress of Russia.
I had to get use to seeing Franz Joseph as the Emperor of Austria. I usually write Francis Joseph.
 
They do it in Spanish and it sounds frankly horrible plus it leads to confusion, Philip of UK, Philippe of Belgium and Felipe of Spain are all called Felipe, so at times you're like what?
Nope, names should be kept in their original version IMO.
 
Nope, names should be kept in their original version IMO.

The difficulty is that until close to the present day, European names, and for that matter European languages, had no "original version". Historically, European aristocrats often spoke or wrote in numerous languages and dialects and would use various versions of their names according to the language. Even in the context of one language, a name could be spelt or pronounced in several different ways.
 
Every name has an original version. Jean, Juan, John and Johann are all versions of the Hebrew Yohanan. It would be pedantic, to say the last, to call Queen Elizabeth II Queen Elisheva, only because that's the original version of the name. :-D

But here on the boards, I prefer to use the version of the name given to the person in their own country. In older books in my native language (German), all the foreign rulers were Germanized - König Jakob was King James. But wouldn't it be a bit ridiculous call Prince George of Cambridge Prinz Georg? or his father Prinz Wilhelm?

So why call King Felipe of Spain and King Philippe of Belgium - Philip?

Well, I guess in every country, they do it a bit differently. Princess Grace was always referred to as Fürstin Gracia Patricia in German media...

In spoken language, I can understand why people proncounce the version easier for them. In writing - why not use the spelling the person uses to refer to her/himself. I'd prefer it for myself.
 
Every name has an original version. Jean, Juan, John and Johann are all versions of the Hebrew Yohanan. It would be pedantic, to say the last, to call Queen Elizabeth II Queen Elisheva, only because that's the original version of the name. :-D

But here on the boards, I prefer to use the version of the name given to the person in their own country. In older books in my native language (German), all the foreign rulers were Germanized - König Jakob was King James. But wouldn't it be a bit ridiculous call Prince George of Cambridge Prinz Georg? or his father Prinz Wilhelm?

So why call King Felipe of Spain and King Philippe of Belgium - Philip?

Well, I guess in every country, they do it a bit differently. Princess Grace was always referred to as Fürstin Gracia Patricia in German media...

In spoken language, I can understand why people proncounce the version easier for them. In writing - why not use the spelling the person uses to refer to her/himself. I'd prefer it for myself.

That is an easy task with present-day Europeans, most of whom use just one spelling to refer to themselves (though the King of the Belgians is not one of them; he refers to himself as Filip in Dutch and Philippe in French).

But how should that be approached with a medieval person who used a dozen spellings in several languages to refer to themselves throughout the course of their life? Which spelling should be considered "the" spelling?
 
We are always inconsistent in this, particularly with names of places. Outside of certain language-speakers, who says Bayern, Crna Gora, Makkah, Ellada, Shqipëri, Suomi, Lietuva or Sūriyā? Most of us say something else when putting a name to these places.

For personal names, it is even more complex. if one wants to go 100% native, one won't be referring to King Zog's wife as the former “Countess Geraldine Apponyi.” She will be the former “Nagyapponyi gróf Apponyi Geraldine.” Her fellow Hungarian, “Count János Almásy” would be “Zsadányi és török-szentmiklósi gróf Almásy János.”
 
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inspied of the unreadable and unpronouncable hungarian stuff, i'm still very much for as much original as possible; when you read history books in sevaral languages it is getting very confusing in times to get to grips whom you are reading about, when the names get twisted around in all diffrent directions.
 
inspied of the unreadable and unpronouncable hungarian stuff, i'm still very much for as much original as possible; when you read history books in sevaral languages it is getting very confusing in times to get to grips whom you are reading about, when the names get twisted around in all diffrent directions.

That is exactly what happened originally, which is to say, in earlier eras. A person would "twist their name around in all different directions" by, for instance, spelling it differently every time it was used in a document. From my perspective, it would be even more confusing to use all four different original spellings than to use a modern spelling consistently.
 
How many people would know that King Carlos I of Spain referred to the same sovereign Holy Roman Emperor Karl V? They could assume there were two different monarchs.
 
How many people would know that King Carlos I of Spain referred to the same sovereign Holy Roman Emperor Karl V? They could assume there were two different monarchs.

Scots get very upset because English textbooks refer to James I and James II, rather than James I and VI and James II and VII. It's a fair point! Although I've never heard anyone try to refer to the present Queen as Elizabeth II and I.


I sometimes read Hola magazine to try to keep up my GCSE Spanish, and that always refers to the British royal family by their Spanish names - Isabel, Carlos, Guillermo, etc.


Re Bayern, I'm afraid it was years before I realised that that was Bavaria's proper name, and not just the name of a football team!
 
How many people would know that King Carlos I of Spain referred to the same sovereign Holy Roman Emperor Karl V? They could assume there were two different monarchs.

The Emperor was also King of Naples as Charles IV
Duke of Burgundy and Brabant as Charles II
Duke of Luxembourg as Charles III
 
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