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  #21  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
This may be a simplistic answer, but this is an English-speaking forum.
There are translation facilities all over the web.
To be more precise: This is a forum where people communicate in English, it's not a forum for native English speakers.

I fail to see the problem.

If you are interested in a foreign royal family, surely you would wish to know their real names?
Most of us non-English speakers are actually pretty proud of our royal families, our language, culture and history. Why on earth should we anglicize names that are important to us, currently or historically?
Isn't it enough that the names of many of our cities are anglicized?

Using anglicized names because they are used in references is an argument that is only valid to the extent that the sources are in English, but the majority of sources regarding European, Asian and Middle Eastern royal families are not in English.

If you come to a foreign country and insist on using anglicized names then I can assure you that you'll very quickly end up being classified as the stereotypical ignorant English speaker who can't be bothered, let alone have the common curtesy, of learning the local versions of the names.

Try turn it around. It's like me insiting on calling the Prince of Wales, Karl instead of Charles. - I have a feeling a British member or two on this forum might object to that.
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2011, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderer11220 View Post
In any case, I just realized I'm breaking my own rule: I always call the dual monarchs of Castile and Aragon Ferdinand and Isabella, not Ferdinand and Elizabeth.
Shouldn't it be Fernando and Isabel in Spanish, Ferrando and Isabel in Aragonés and not Ferdinand and Isabella, as they are the Anglicized forms?
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  #23  
Old 12-18-2011, 06:35 PM
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It the most aesthethical option. HM John Charles - Though I´m a Carlist - is more pretty in a English text than its Spanish counterpart.
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  #24  
Old 12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
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I would never call Juan Carlos John Charles, IMO that is not his name nor what he goes by. He is Spanish and his name is Spanish. I have to admit that the mere suggestion of something like anglicizing their names is rather insulting and I'm an American.
I do admit that I refer to the Russian's as Peter, Catherine, Nicholas etc. but that is because that is how I have been taught to refer to them. I can't even think of their Russian names with the exception of Ekaterina; I honestly didn't know they didn't go by those names in their countries because all the books I read on them refer to them by their non-Russian names.
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  #25  
Old 12-18-2011, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderer11220 View Post
I don't know about you, but I've been having a bit of a mini-controversy between my royalist friends and myself over whether to anglicize royal names. They had no idea who I was talking about when I brought up John Charles of Spain. I always anglicize, since it makes it easier to compare monarchs with different names in different countries, like HRE Charles V, who was also Karl, Carl and Carlos. Is it more appropriate to use their name as is, or can we anglicize it?
I think it's a big sign of arrogance, ignorance and just plain lazyness to not use the name a person is been given by their parents. No matter if there is a version of the name in another language. It's just a VERSION and not a TRANSLATION. They origin from the same source but they are NOT the same. I don't care if it's "easier" to translate a name into the current countries version. It's still the wrong name.

I always hate, hate, hate it when I read spanish websites where they write about "Guillermo & Catalina", "Isabel II & Felipe", "Carlos Gustavo", "Carlos Felipe", "Magdalena", "Carlota", "Carolina", "Estefania", "Beatriz". Those are not their names. So why use them?

It's just like they are not "Wilhelm & Katharina", "Heinrich", "Johannes Karl", "Mechthild-Margarethe"(germanized) or "Charles Philip", "Madeline" (which btw is used here in the forum very often and just isn't right, just like FrederiCk isn't right, but Frederik), "John Charles" (anglicized).

Has anyone even recognized all of them? No? Have you recognized them, wanderer? If not you know how it would be for every non-english-speaking user around here if we suddenly start changing names around just so you would have it easier. Because it's not easier. It's confusing. I bet it's even confusing for native english speaking people.

So long story short: No, names shouldn't be anglicized, germanized, spanish-cized or russia-cized (if the last two words even exist ) or whatever-cized. Names CAN NEVER be translated or somewhat-cized in my opinion. That's just not right.
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2011, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post

I always hate, hate, hate it when I read spanish websites where they write about "Guillermo & Catalina", "Isabel II & Felipe", "Carlos Gustavo", "Carlos Felipe", "Magdalena", "Carlota", "Carolina", "Estefania", "Beatriz". Those are not their names. So why use them?
Um...I'm not understanding this statement.
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2011, 10:41 PM
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My husband was given his mother's surname as his first name. It's a Scot surname and rather unusual as a first name. We live in an area with a lot of French-speaking people; hence he sometimes gets called a French name which sounds similar but is nothing near it in meaning.
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2011, 10:44 PM
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My unmarried surname means Son-of-the-servant-of-John. I'm glad that my ancestors were Gaelic: hence my maiden name has only two syllables rather than seven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Most of us non-English speakers are actually pretty proud of our royal families, our language, culture and history. Why on earth should we anglicize names that are important to us, currently or historically?
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2011, 12:35 AM
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So we should all install cyrillic keyboards to talk about Владимир I? I think not. Perhaps it's not "anglicizing" to use the Latinate alphabet but clearly, Cyrillic words are anglicized all the time to make them fit English pronunciation schemes.

If it's one's own family or language that one is typing about, then it's wonderful to use un mot trés precis, mais quand on parle en anglais, it's natural to use English spellings and pronunciations.

I have no expectations that people will pronounce (or spell) Hawai'ian names properly (that glottal stop gets left out - and in fact, most websites won't let me use the diacritic to spell my name properly...no me importa...)
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  #30  
Old 12-19-2011, 01:51 AM
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pk: anglicised would mean using an english name rather than the native one. non-english character sets are transliterated into english on a regular basis. THAT is not an issue here. what is, is whether one should substitute an english equivalent for a non-english name.

also, this seems to be more a problem with european names
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  #31  
Old 12-19-2011, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by norenxaq View Post
pk: anglicised would mean using an english name rather than the native one. non-english character sets are transliterated into english on a regular basis. THAT is not an issue here. what is, is whether one should substitute an english equivalent for a non-english name.

also, this seems to be more a problem with european names
It admittedly can be a problem to change the spelling into latin letters. In that case why don't we simply use the officially accepted way of writing a name in latin letters by that country?

I have no problems with names being spelled in a way, that would make it difficult for me to pronounce them. I don't have to read out loud and if I did I would just have to learn to pronounce the name.

It is to me blatant disrespect not to call people by their real name as far as at all possible.
It's fair enough if you don't know their real names but just because it's more convenient? No.
I can understand if we us use an anglicised spelling for certain historical figures like Marc Anthony (who written as Markus Antonius in Danish by the way) especially as the Roman rules of spelling names was different from now.

On the outside chance that anglicised spelling should become a board rule I would continue to spell all names I know of as close to their real names as possible and there is no way I would disrespect my own royal family by not using their real names.
And if I were to be cencored for that, I would leave. - Because then this forum would become a forum for people from English speaking countries, not for the rest of us.
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2011, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Um...I'm not understanding this statement.
I meant that I don't like it when they talk about "William & Catherine" and turn them into "Guillermo & Catalina". The last names are not THEIR names. They are just the spanish VERSIONS of their names. Just like they would not be "Wilhelm & Katharina" in Germany (thanks god we don't "translate" names). And not liking this "translation" into spanish on spanish websites I don't think it should also be the other way around. So no "John Charles" or "Johannes Karl" for "Juan Carlos" (based on where you live), because it's NOT the RIGHT name but only a VERSION.

Is it any clearer now?
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2011, 09:16 AM
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I agree with KitKat2006 that it is inappropriate and disrespectful to anglicize any foreign names. I'm wondering: Many of the Americans on this board certainly have classmates or colleagues or friends with Spanish names. Do you call a Juan John or an Enrique Henry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
So we should all install cyrillic keyboards to talk about Владимир I? I think not. Perhaps it's not "anglicizing" to use the Latinate alphabet but clearly, Cyrillic words are anglicized all the time to make them fit English pronunciation schemes.
As norenxaq pointed out, transliteration/transcription and translation are two different things. There are different systems of transcription and since this is an English speaking board, we use the English transcription (see the chart here for example).
Spanish, German, Swedish... whatever names do not have to be transliterated or transcribed, since they are written in latin alphabet.
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  #34  
Old 12-19-2011, 10:43 AM
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i know most languages the name stay same , his name is Carlos not Charles
but whit Russian it is harder because they got other alphabet and some letter doesn't exist in that language like y , x , c , w etc
so i say NO names Anglicisizion
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2011, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsessan View Post
I'm wondering: Many of the Americans on this board certainly have classmates or colleagues or friends with Spanish names. Do you call a Juan John or an Enrique Henry?
That's what I also wondered but forgot to write. But I would like to ask this question especially to wanderer since he/she started this whole discussion. So how do you do it, wanderer? Do you anglicize your classmates/collegues names? How about actors and singers? Enrique or Henry Iglesias? Antonio or Anthony Banderas? Or what about all those american sport stars (Baseball, Football, Basketball, Hockey) with foreign origin and names? Do you anglicize their names in conversations with friends, etc, too? Because you have to if you will stay true to your "it would be easier"-way. And no offense but this sounds completely moronic to me.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
I meant that I don't like it when they talk about "William & Catherine" and turn them into "Guillermo & Catalina". The last names are not THEIR names. They are just the spanish VERSIONS of their names. Just like they would not be "Wilhelm & Katharina" in Germany (thanks god we don't "translate" names). And not liking this "translation" into spanish on spanish websites I don't think it should also be the other way around. So no "John Charles" or "Johannes Karl" for "Juan Carlos" (based on where you live), because it's NOT the RIGHT name but only a VERSION.

Is it any clearer now?

Thank you for further explaining what you meant, I was really having a hard time with that one. And I agree that it should always be William and Catherine since that is their given name.
I live in a city with a high hispanic population and I would never dream of calling people named Eduardo by the English sounding Edward, or the Maria's of the world by the name Mary. Like someone else said it is disrespectful, arrogant and has a tinge of prejudice in it as well. On top of that, there are some names that just sound better in one language as opposed to another. Juan Carlos, IMO, sounds much better than John Charles.
The Russian names are more open to questions for me because I have always seen their names spelled as Nicholas, Tatiana, Alexei etc. and I am not sure if that has been "anglicized" or if its the appropriate Russian name. I beleive Michael's name is really supposed to be Mikhail; is that correct?
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  #37  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I beleive Michael's name is really supposed to be Mikhail; is that correct?
Yes, Mikhail is probably the closest way of spelling the Russian name with the Latin alphabet.
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  #38  
Old 04-13-2013, 08:15 PM
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I assume Carherine The Great is supposed to be Ekaterina The Great, but what are the proper names for Peter, Nicholas, and Alexander?
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2013, 08:53 PM
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The names of Russian Monarchs, Regents and Pretenders of the House of Romanov with their Russian pronunciation:
- Michael is pronounced Mikhail. The "kh" sounds like the Spanish "j" (as in "junta" or "Javier"). In this name, "a" is pronounced as in "art", and "i" as in "ink".
- Alexis is pronounced Aleksei. "K" is much softer than the English letter, more like the Spanish "c" as in "como". "Ei" sounds like "a" in "ate".
- Feodor is pronounced Fyodr. "Yo" as in "yolk".
- Sophia is pronounced the same way as in English.
- Ivan is pronounced the usual way ("I" as in "ink").
- Peter is pronounced as Pyotr ("Yo" as in "yolk").
- Catherine is pronounces as Yekaterina. ("Ye" as in "yellow", "k" like the Spanish "c" as in "como", and a softer "t", like the Spanish one, as in "tempo" or "tu").
- Anna is pronounced the same way as in English.
- Elizabeth is pronounced as Yelizaveta ("ye" as in "yellow").
- Paul is pronounces as Pavel.
- Constantine is pronounced as Konstantin ("k" like Spanish "c" as in "como")
- Nicholas is pronounced as Nikolai ("ai" as "i" in "idle", "k" like the Spanish "c" as in "como").
- Alexander is pronounced as Aleksander ("k" like the Spanish "c" as in "como").
- Cyril is pronounced as Kiril (a soft "k", like the Spanish "c" as in "como" - the same as in Aleksander, "i" as in "intereset").
- George is pronounced as Giorgiy ("G" as in "good", "i" as in "ink" and "y" as in "yell").
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  #40  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:07 PM
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This thread has given me some laughs, especially Iluvbertie's difficulty with Arabic/Vietnamese swear words.
I agree that we should try to say the names as they are in the original, although our pronunciations will not be perfect.
Speaking of Charles as Karl, what of Charlotte as Carla?
I never heard that Isabel meant Elizabeth. I thought it meant beautiful (bel) Isa, with Isa as a separate meaning from bel. There is a French name of Charles VI's queen, Isabeau, which is odd, since "beau" is a masculine form of "bel". Anyway, I am still wondering why Elizabeth could become Isabel or Isabelle.
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